Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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Value Collector said:
We don’t subsidize mining, mining generates massive net profits to the Australian government, via royalties and company tax.
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Don't want to start a bun fight but governments do subsidise mining fuel excise is rather large alone see link which will likely to be biased but still valid.

https://www.tai.org.au/content/what-have-state-mining-subsidies-cost-you

Most of the money for mining oil and gas leaves Australia but agree standard of living would be halved without it just a pity the small returns are not used to start a future for next generations.
 
IFocus said:
Don't want to start a bun fight but governments do subsidise mining fuel excise is rather large alone see link which will likely to be biased but still valid.

https://www.tai.org.au/content/what-have-state-mining-subsidies-cost-you

Most of the money for mining oil and gas leaves Australia but agree standard of living would be halved without it just a pity the small returns are not used to start a future for next generations.
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Would not oppose you on that one, billions in diesel excise rebate, free gift of ore to play with with just paying for the sold part, yes a proper mining tax would have been welcomed but i still believe we can not create an industry by throwing billions
I can not find a single example of this ever working
You need an eco system, a proper environment
Education, financing, taxation , laws and regulations, ethics,and that is on top of natural factors weather location, critical mass of experts..
And sorry but
We had a chance with software 20y ago when US companies were outsourcing here, since government it has been outsourced to India via the like of telstra and IBM, we imported so many low class programmer when we had no job for them that university department in it closed..
So no, it is not realistic to think australia can play any role in EV but as a consumer
Hopefully proven wrong in the future
 
IFocus said:
Don't want to start a bun fight.
Click to expand...

Neither do I.

Fuel excise refunds are not a subsidy, Excise is collected to fund roads, Any person or entity that consumes most of their fuel "off road" eg, Farmers, Miners, Fishermen etc etc can apply to have the excise tax they pay on their fuel rebated.

When BHP, FMG, RIO etc buy fuel to use in their Trucks, diggers etc that are running on private land or roads they built and maintain themselves, its only fair that they should have the excise refunded.
 
SirRumpole said:
Personally I think it's going to take longer than 4-5 years for the EV revolution to take off here barring serious obstructions to oil supply.

Apart from a few pioneers (VC), people like to stick with what they know unless they are forced to do otherwise or the alternatives are much more attractive.

I think there is a place for transition vehicles like hybrids which give the advantages of both EV's for city use and petrol/diesel for country trips , and will give competition to prevent either the Elcos or the oil companies from hiking prices if they see an advantage.
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As of yesterday, The Tesla Model 3 has become the highest selling car in Australia (on a monthly basis), and that is without a single Tesla Add ever being put on any media.

Tesla sells all they can make, without the need for Advertising, Product placements etc

I wouldn't call myself a pioneer, I think (as with most of my investment choices) I can just see where things are heading ahead of the crowd, and just like my investment choices I face a bit of push back, but eventually the crowd will agree with me, hahaha.
 
Check out this video, I really urge anyone interested in the future of Oil prices or car sales etc to sit down with a beverage and soak in the facts being presented, because there are changes happening quicker than the market believes, and opportunities to make money are great, it will take a degree of thinking that goes against some of the status quo thinking though.

Let me know what you think about the thoughts presented, ( but only if you have actually watched the video)

At the 4.40 mark he mentions people maybe waiting 4 years to purchase as EV, I waited 12 years long before I even knew about Tesla, I told family I wouldn't buy a new car till I could Buy an EV, So what they are saying at the 4.40 mark is true,

 
On top of the video I posted above, Check out this video, It confirms what they are saying about electric buses.

Disney has to be one of the Largest operators of Buses in the USA, as I share holder I sure hope they are moving to electrify their fleet ASAP, last time I was at Walt Disney World they were all still diesel, But I hope this changes soon.

 
I just realised that anyone who hasn't actually visited Disney World might not realise how huge their Bus Transportation network is , So here is a video showing the extent of it.

Basically on Disney's Florida Property, they Have 27 Hotels (huge ones) Linked to 4 Disney Theme parks + 2 Disney Water parks + a Disney shopping and internment district and they also run constant buses from the airport to the Disney Property.

Check out this video that shows some of the scale of their bus network, especially around the 2.40 min mark, they have around 800,000 passenger movements per day on their bus network.

Imagine the benefits of moving this fleet to Electric, Maybe I should write Bob Iger a letter, haha.

 
Thanks VC for the video cf oil use and indeed the gap in purchase
Case in point, we have 3 cars here
A 2007 from memory ute used for work on the block farm
4wd, capacity, scratch proof and robustness, u
son got the old fiesta now 10y old plus
lady got a nice cheap sporty 2016 convertible for fun drive
I do not expect to buy any new car until EV and if one die, it will be replaced by matching second hand only
Good to know curve
Now ,where do you invest to capture value from that curve?
 
I just learned today that Tesla Model 3’s no longer need any special adapter to plug into the standard non Tesla fast chargers.

So you can charge at Tesla superchargers and all the other locations that are popping up and just plug right in.
 
W
Value Collector said:
I am working on some ideas.
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Worth pointing that what is true in the us/europe could be delayed here in Australia due to us being always a step behind in term of infrastructure
Australia will not influence world oil consumption but car sales,etc could see a delayed curve, or worse an increased effect
Aka: i am already delaying new purchase but will not buy an ev as early as i would if living in europe or the USA
 
Value Collector said:
Check out this video, I really urge anyone interested in the future of Oil prices or car sales etc to sit down with a beverage and soak in the facts being presented, because there are changes happening quicker than the market believes, and opportunities to make money are great, it will take a degree of thinking that goes against some of the status quo thinking though.

Let me know what you think about the thoughts presented, ( but only if you have actually watched the video)

At the 4.40 mark he mentions people maybe waiting 4 years to purchase as EV, I waited 12 years long before I even knew about Tesla, I told family I wouldn't buy a new car till I could Buy an EV, So what they are saying at the 4.40 mark is true,

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Great find VC.

That is an excellent, compelling analysis of what could happen in the ICE/EV car market (if everything else stays the same). I'm also impressed with the presenters. Well worth keeping in mind for future reading.:xyxthumbs

Perhaps not surprisingly I found myself understanding and agreeing with the basic principles of "Yep Ev is the way to go. Can't afford it yet. Will wait a few years and make my current ICE car last until then "
 
Interesting comment from the You Tube site of VC story,

Also noted how many people echoed my thoughts about their next car being an EV and just waiting until the price was right. Pretty obvious I think.

I can see real problems for car manufacturers trying to sell ICE cars in 3-4 years time. Could be even uicker if battery technology improves as fast as expected and prices fall. Look for a Tesla car built in China in 2 years time.

photo.jpg
azera55555 6 months ago (edited)
I was incredibly doubtful about this prediction but this article says Norway went from 5% EV market share to 50% in just 6 years... I had no idea it happened in Norway that quickly. So idk hope the same thing will happen in the U.S., still see so many people buying brand new ICE cars here though https://insideevs.com/electric-car-lessons-norway/
 
Value Collector said:
Neither do I.

Fuel excise refunds are not a subsidy, Excise is collected to fund roads, Any person or entity that consumes most of their fuel "off road" eg, Farmers, Miners, Fishermen etc etc can apply to have the excise tax they pay on their fuel rebated.

When BHP, FMG, RIO etc buy fuel to use in their Trucks, diggers etc that are running on private land or roads they built and maintain themselves, its only fair that they should have the excise refunded.
Click to expand...

That's a nice little loophole that miners and farmers have slipped through isn't it ?

Pity that it's rubbish. ;)

All revenue is collected for a variety of reasons.

This is what the Parliamentary website says about fuel excise.

"In the period 1926 to 1959 and again in 1982, all or part of the revenue raised by petrol and diesel excises was hypothecated (earmarked) to fund expenditure on roads. For example, when first introduced in 1957, revenue from diesel excise was hypothecated to road funding. Hypothecation arrangements have effectively been discontinued. But the impression remains that the level of Commonwealth spending on roads is linked to the revenue from petrol and diesel excises. In fact, Commonwealth spending on roads is considerably less than excise revenue. Moreover, successive Commonwealth governments have seen petrol and diesel excises as a source of general revenue available for spending for general government purposes and not just for roads. Arguments for reinstituting hypothecation are questionable especially when viewed in an overall budgetary context."

[my bolds]

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...s/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp0001/01RP06

So fuel excise rebates are effectively tax avoidance and should be discontinued.
 
SirRumpole said:
Hypothecation arrangements have effectively been discontinued.
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Well spotted, SirRumpole. This still remains one of the great myths of government finance. Under the Constitution, the Commonwealth only has one account. It cannot and does not split up tax revenue into different buckets to be automatically (and only) spent for particular purposes. Funds are allocated in the annual budget for whatever purpose and at whatever level the government of the day decrees. Legislation can, and is, passed to establish rules for how and on what particular taxes operate and how funds are spent (or a tax paid is refunded). Fuel Excise is just one example of this and the myth of automatic allocation to roads funding is a political convenience to continue a tax refund to a particular interest group. The "Medicare Levy" doesn't fund "Health" (the Government actually spends far more on health services than the levy provides in revenue).

The other great myth in this area is that we somehow pay for the Age Pension through our working lives and collect it at retirement, as if there was some account somewhere where a proportion of the tax we pay has our name on it and is managed separately. This WAS the case before 1971 but the High Court found it to be unconstitutional. The Age Pension is paid from consolidated revenue just like all welfare and tax transfers (including drought relief, Newstart and Franking Credit rebates), funded by the taxes (income, GST, CGT, company tax etc.) levied on us all in the year it is paid out. A tax is a tax is a tax and spending (or tax forgone) is spending. The labels that government puts on taxes and levies are totally irrelevant and just there to keep certain people happy (or in the dark).
 
SirRumpole said:
That's a nice little loophole that miners and farmers have slipped through isn't it ?

Pity that it's rubbish. ;)

All revenue is collected for a variety of reasons.

This is what the Parliamentary website says about fuel excise.

"In the period 1926 to 1959 and again in 1982, all or part of the revenue raised by petrol and diesel excises was hypothecated (earmarked) to fund expenditure on roads. For example, when first introduced in 1957, revenue from diesel excise was hypothecated to road funding. Hypothecation arrangements have effectively been discontinued. But the impression remains that the level of Commonwealth spending on roads is linked to the revenue from petrol and diesel excises. In fact, Commonwealth spending on roads is considerably less than excise revenue. Moreover, successive Commonwealth governments have seen petrol and diesel excises as a source of general revenue available for spending for general government purposes and not just for roads. Arguments for reinstituting hypothecation are questionable especially when viewed in an overall budgetary context."

[my bolds]

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...s/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp0001/01RP06

So fuel excise rebates are effectively tax avoidance and should be discontinued.
Click to expand...

3 things to think about

1, it’s not just miners and farmers but all businesses that can prove they use their fuel off road.

2, the fact that the government has over time started to dip into the tax and use it for things it wasn’t designed for means the government is cheating, not the companies.

3, if you are going to say the fuel tax has nothing to do with roads I am happy, because it means the government has no reason to increase taxes on electric cars to compensate for us not buying fuel.
 
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