Electric cars?

[wayneL]

There

I'm wondering what the difference is of EV batteries that goes 'into thermal runaway' and the batteries in mobile phones, laptops, portable vacuum cleaners, which are all transported in bulk surrounded in plastic components and packaging.

In the future, a large number of road vehicles will not be powered by fossil fuels, and in order to prevent incidents in connection with such a change in the transportation sector, regulations and practices should stay one step ahead. Road tunnels and underground garages constitute particularly high-risk environments with regard to fires and explosions. The transportation sector is currently undergoing major changes, driven in large part by the gradual transition towards a fossil fuel-independent society.​

There reported incidents of such events with mobile phones etc. e.g. I recall warnings not to put the phone under a pillow because someone managed to start a fire that way.

Researching futher with regards to my own setup.... Holy Mary, mother of Jesus!! I have got to change things Pronto!

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm wondering what the difference is of EV batteries that goes 'into thermal runaway' and the batteries in mobile phones, laptops, portable vacuum cleaners, which are all transported in bulk surrounded in plastic components and packaging.

Scale and ability to deal with it.

If a small electronic device starts emitting smoke well then pick it up, put it outside and it can burn harmlessly. Throw it out the window if it's really urgent but point is, if someone's aware of the problem then relocating the device itself is achievable.

Plus the scale of damage. Even if the battery does burn, the scale of smoke and heat produced mostly isn't going to cause any real damage to either humans or property as long as it doesn't set anything else on fire. If it's just the phone itself burning, that's not a lot of heat and the smoke will readily disperse to safe levels.

Versus an EV where the battery's an order of magnitude larger and it's impractical to relocate once it's burning. Far more chance it's somewhere problematic.

Comparing the scale, well an iPhone battery is about 12Wh whereas a Tesla Model 3 battery is 50,000 to 82,000 Wh depending on model variant. So an order of magnitude scale difference.

at size.

 

[farmerge]

There
There reported incidents of such events with mobile phones etc. e.g. I recall warnings not to put the phone under a pillow because someone managed to start a fire that way.

Researching futher with regards to my own setup.... Holy Mary, mother of Jesus!! I have got to change things Pronto!

Wayne If not even faster !!!!

 

[farmerge]

Scale and ability to deal with it.

If a small electronic device starts emitting smoke well then pick it up, put it outside and it can burn harmlessly. Throw it out the window if it's really urgent but point is, if someone's aware of the problem then relocating the device itself is achievable.

Plus the scale of damage. Even if the battery does burn, the scale of smoke and heat produced mostly isn't going to cause any real damage to either humans or property as long as it doesn't set anything else on fire. If it's just the phone itself burning, that's not a lot of heat and the smoke will readily disperse to safe levels.

Versus an EV where the battery's an order of magnitude larger and it's impractical to relocate once it's burning. Far more chance it's somewhere problematic.

Comparing the scale, well an iPhone battery is about 12Wh whereas a Tesla Model 3 battery is 50,000 to 82,000 Wh depending on model variant. So an order of magnitude scale difference.

at size.

Well then Mr Smurf size does matter!!!!

 

[JohnDe]

Scale and ability to deal with it.

If a small electronic device starts emitting smoke well then pick it up, put it outside and it can burn harmlessly. Throw it out the window if it's really urgent but point is, if someone's aware of the problem then relocating the device itself is achievable.

Plus the scale of damage. Even if the battery does burn, the scale of smoke and heat produced mostly isn't going to cause any real damage to either humans or property as long as it doesn't set anything else on fire. If it's just the phone itself burning, that's not a lot of heat and the smoke will readily disperse to safe levels.

Versus an EV where the battery's an order of magnitude larger and it's impractical to relocate once it's burning. Far more chance it's somewhere problematic.

Comparing the scale, well an iPhone battery is about 12Wh whereas a Tesla Model 3 battery is 50,000 to 82,000 Wh depending on model variant. So an order of magnitude scale difference.

at size.

Have you seen how those electronic devices are transported from the source country? We’re talking about thousands of devices packed together, not only phones but scooters, vacuum cleaners, torches, laptops. All stacked wide & high.

Do you remember when Samsung phones were exploding? Airlines banned passengers with them. Imagine a container of that.

Why is the difference?

 

[rcw1]

Good evening
Moves afoot, if this article is to be believed, to turn domestic power off in Queensland, when owners are charging a vehicle at home during high peak times of electricity use. If that makes sense.

Home electric-car charging to be controlled by authorities under controversial Queensland proposal

Under a new proposal, home electric-car chargers in Queensland could be controlled by the state's energy authority.

www.drive.com.au

Kind regards
rcw1

 

[mullokintyre]

Good evening
Moves afoot, if this article is to be believed, to turn domestic power off in Queensland, when owners are charging a vehicle at home during high peak times of electricity use. If that makes sense.

Home electric-car charging to be controlled by authorities under controversial Queensland proposal

Under a new proposal, home electric-car chargers in Queensland could be controlled by the state's energy authority.

www.drive.com.au

Kind regards
rcw1

i wonder if that will apply if the owner of said vehicle is charging from a home solar supply , or home battery storage?
Will they still be able to turn it off?
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

It doesn't really matter what started the fire. I think the point is that once those battery cells go into thermal runaway, you've got big problems. Depending on the situation, it could be catastrophic.

It's given me pause to think as I have a lithium battery setup in my work ute, as well as at least two LPG bottles ?

I have a full lithium battery setup for the house and this is not something I forget.
Another reason I am far less tempted by an EV than I was 2 y ago.
Batteries in a dynamic (car) environment are subjected to vibrations, shocks, thermal and moisture exposures far far worse than static, in a garage.

This lithium battery option for EV is really not the solution..even if lithium was plentiful..which it is not.
I wonder how long it will take for this truth to be acknowledged
And when you think we could all run on Syngas for the same price or supposed effect on warming the planet.lol..or scarcity/pollution of oil.?.but
no wa.ker showing off 0 to 60 at the traffic lights in his Tesla when you can use Syngas in a 12y old second hand Toyota bought for $5k..ahh well with EV you'll queue at the recharge station but not on the traffic free roads...

Have you seen how those electronic devices are transported from the source country? We’re talking about thousands of devices packed together, not only phones but scooters, vacuum cleaners, torches, laptops. All stacked wide & high.

Do you remember when Samsung phones were exploding? Airlines banned passengers with them. Imagine a container of that.

Why is the difference?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjko_PTsruAAxUeilYBHWhMAeIQFnoECCEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.claimsjournal.com%2Fnews%2Fnational%2F2022%2F09%2F02%2F312507.htm&usg=AOvVaw3Eh8dQr0aVu47PmOkLKL_V&opi=89978449

 

[JohnDe]

I have a full lithium battery setup for the house and this is not something I forget.
Another reason I am far less tempted by an EV than I was 2 y ago.
Batteries in a dynamic (car) environment are subjected to vibrations, shocks, thermal and moisture exposures far far worse than static, in a garage.

This lithium battery option for EV is really not the solution..even if lithium was plentiful..which it is not.
I wonder how long it will take for this truth to be acknowledged
And when you think we could all run on Syngas for the same price or supposed effect on warming the planet.lol..or scarcity/pollution of oil.?.but
no wa.ker showing off 0 to 60 at the traffic lights in his Tesla when you can use Syngas in a 12y old second hand Toyota bought for $5k..ahh well with EV you'll queue at the recharge station but not on the traffic free roads...

The Pros and Cons of Synthetic Fuel for Internal-combustion Engines​

​

Conversely, some cons come with the idea of synthetic fuels. The most apparent being that synthetic fuels are not as sustainable as green alternatives. A battery can be recharged through renewable sources, such as solar panels and wind turbines. Fuels will never have that options.​

​

Another natural problem with synthetic fuels would be the supply. Currently, there is simply no way that supply could meet demand. Assuming every person in the US switched to synthetic fuels, they would need around 45-50 billion liters – a year. Meanwhile, the production output for one synthetic fuel company is only projected to be about 55 million liters a year. The numbers do not match up.​

​

Finally, it all comes back around to sustainability. Could the industry keep up production long-term? That’s an excellent question. A lot of energy goes into making synthetic fuels – arguably as much as, if not more than, what it would take to charge a battery. Likewise, it does take base materials to create, which have efficiency concerns. ​

 

[farmerge]

Have you seen how those electronic devices are transported from the source country? We’re talking about thousands of devices packed together, not only phones but scooters, vacuum cleaners, torches, laptops. All stacked wide & high.

Do you remember when Samsung phones were exploding? Airlines banned passengers with them. Imagine a container of that.

Why is the difference?

If a container does go up, one mighty big explosion.

 

[JohnDe]

A changing automotive industry is coming fast -

Companies that make parts for internal combustion engines are facing a harsh future. Revenues for ICE cars, and fuel and exhaust systems are all expected to decline 44% through 2027. Meanwhile, for electric drivetrains and batteries or fuel cells, revenues are expected to rise 245%, according to a 2023 Deloitte Automotive Supplier Study. While the parts themselves are changing, the pie is also shrinking. An internal combustion powertrain has about 2,000 parts. EV powertrains have about 20, sometimes less. Automakers are also finding ways to more efficiently manufacture parts through methods like giga casting, pioneered by Tesla. There are thousands of parts in cars that come from companies all over the world, a whole branching supply chain of firms each dependent on the success of the others. Many of those companies are small, family owned firms, but even the large, publicly traded suppliers such as Bosch, Denso, Magna and ZF could be in trouble. The question is, will EVs kill the thousands of auto suppliers or can they find ways to pivot, consolidate or somehow stay in business?​

 

[qldfrog]

The Pros and Cons of Synthetic Fuel for Internal-combustion Engines​

​

Conversely, some cons come with the idea of synthetic fuels. The most apparent being that synthetic fuels are not as sustainable as green alternatives. A battery can be recharged through renewable sources, such as solar panels and wind turbines. Fuels will never have that options.​

​

Another natural problem with synthetic fuels would be the supply. Currently, there is simply no way that supply could meet demand. Assuming every person in the US switched to synthetic fuels, they would need around 45-50 billion liters – a year. Meanwhile, the production output for one synthetic fuel company is only projected to be about 55 million liters a year. The numbers do not match up.​

​

Finally, it all comes back around to sustainability. Could the industry keep up production long-term? That’s an excellent question. A lot of energy goes into making synthetic fuels – arguably as much as, if not more than, what it would take to charge a battery. Likewise, it does take base materials to create, which have efficiency concerns. ​

absolutely everything in the con can be said for electrics...point by point, but at least we do not need new cars ..not insignificant...

 

[JohnDe]

absolutely everything in the con can be said for electrics...point by point, but at least we do not need new cars ..not insignificant...

Show me.

 

[qldfrog]

not sure what is true or not, I know of similar cemeteries in France for EV sharing cars
So put that to china scale and yeap would be same same

https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_rwg9hqtzvV1zlxqpx.mp4

The real issue there and that is the issue with EVs is that the market is deformed by government subsidies so taxpayers are actually paying for the privilege of soon being unable to have a mean of transport .
Tesla is mostly paid (or at least was until very recently) by the the taxes (via Ford and GM, etc credits) on hardworking poorer americans who will never be able to replace their ICE with EVs.
That is a political view: capitalism vsa planned economy(communism in case people are short memory)
Socialism was supposed to merge both capitalism and some communism, but what we actually see is a move from capitalism to socialism via a globalist supra national clique.: the worst of both capitalism and communism..both economically and politically

 

[mullokintyre]

BYD has overtaken Volkswagen as the biggest seller of vehicles for the first quarter of 2023.

Interesting that they do not plan to sell cars into the US market.
AS inscrutable as ever.

 

[qldfrog]

BYD has overtaken Volkswagen as the biggest seller of vehicles for the first quarter of 2023.

Interesting that they do not plan to sell cars into the US market.
AS inscrutable as ever.
View attachment 160747

Why would they when there is nearly a hot war between China and the US?
Plenty of demand elsewhere

 

[JohnDe]

BYD has overtaken Volkswagen as the biggest seller of vehicles for the first quarter of 2023.

Interesting that they do not plan to sell cars into the US market.
AS inscrutable as ever.
View attachment 160747

BYD is preparing the groundwork before entering the US market. Tesla is too dominant at the moment.

"BYD Co. doesn't have any current plans to enter the U.S. passenger car market, founder Wang Chuanfu said, throwing cold water on the prospect of the Chinese electric-vehicle maker challenging Tesla Inc. in its home market — for now.​

​

"BYD stopped producing cars powered entirely by fossil fuels last year."​

BYD: No plans to challenge Tesla in U.S. anytime soon

BYD's founder threw cold water on the prospect of the Chinese electric-vehicle maker challenging Tesla in its home market — for now.



BYD Co. doesn't have any current plans to enter the U.S. passenger car market, founder Wang Chuanfu said, throwing cold water on the prospect of the Chinese electric-vehicle maker challenging Tesla Inc. in its home market — for now.

The auto titan, which reported that net income more than quintupled last year after it sold a record number of EVs, said at a post-earnings briefing on Wednesday that its home market of China has already entered a "full-expansion phase" for new-energy vehicles.The US is the next biggest EV market after China, where a price war has erupted between BYD, Tesla and other EV makers. Backed by Warren Buffett, BYD has been expanding its footprint overseas, including into Norway, Denmark, the UK, Thailand and Australia. Wang predicted that the development of clean-energy vehicles will lead to a reshuffling within the global auto industry.

Given that BYD isn't entering the U.S. passenger EV market for now, Wang doesn't foresee any impact from President Joe Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, which offers generous incentives for selling EVs but has stringent requirements on manufacturing and supply-chain sourcing. Final details of the legislation, passed into law last year, are due to be released on Friday.

BYD sold 1.86 million electric and plug-in hybrids in 2022, more than the previous four years combined. It accounted for about 30% of all new-energy vehicle sales in China, with half of them battery-only EVs. In comparison, Tesla delivered 1.31 million EVs globally.

BYD stopped producing cars powered entirely by fossil fuels last year.

 

[mullokintyre]

Not an electric Car, but an electric ship.
From Evil Murdoch Press

The world’s largest battery-powered ship is to be built in Australia, in a breakthrough for decarbonising global shipping and growing the nation’s shipbuilding industry.
Tasmanian aluminium catamaran shipbuilder Incat is building the 130m lightweight fast ferry, using a Finnish-supplied electric propulsion and waterjet system, at its yards in Hobart.

The vessel will have 40MWh of battery storage, making it the largest battery-powered ship by any measure, according to Incat and Finnish partners Wartsila.
“It’s the world’s largest battery-powered vessel in length, in tonnage and in energy storage, by quite some margin,” Incat managing director Craig Clifford said.
“This is a massive step forward (for decarbonising shipping). There are increasing pressures around the world, but particularly in northern Europe, to go green and really concentrate on emissions. We may well have delivered our last diesel-powered vessel.

“We’re at the precipice of a large leap in the industry.

“It’s similar in our view from going from sail to steam and then from steam to coal and diesel.

“It’s a real transformation.”
Incat, which has been building high-speed aluminium catamarans, largely for major passenger and vehicle ferries, since the 1990s, is planning to almost double its 400-strong workforce to meet demand for electric vessels.

The battery-powered vessel, which will carry 2100 passengers and 226 vehicles between Argentina and Uruguay for Uruguayan ferry operator Buquebus, will be capable of sailing at 25 knots for 1½ hours.

Incat has another order for a similar all-electric vessel from a European client.

“As a company, we think this electric path that we’re going down is the right path and very exciting for us,” Mr Clifford said.

“Regulators around the world are going to be making it harder and harder for diesel for to be used in an operating environment and we want to remain at the leading edge of the industry.”

 

[basilio]

How big is BYD ? Try 5 million electric vehicles. Only Tesla gets anywhere close.

BYD production snowballs as it celebrates rolling five millionth plug-in EV off the assembly line​

... BYD’s production ramp up outpaces… well, everyone​

BYD Auto’s five millionth new energy vehicle to roll off its assembly lines in China was an N7 SUV from its Denza sub-brand (seen above). As it proclaims itself as the first global automaker to reach five million NEVs (BEVs and plug-in hybrids), BYD has a lot to celebrate – but a more impressive statistic is how quickly the manufacturer got here.


The company points out that it took 13 years to reach one million NEVs produced, but here’s where things get interesting. From there, it only took BYD Auto another 18 months to reach three million, then another 9 months from there to reach five million, helping garner over $1.86 million in sales last year. (that figure cannot be correct. Must be a typo)

BYD production snowballs as it celebrates rolling five millionth plug-in EV off the assembly line

While some EV automaker’s are working to deliver EV numbers in the tens of thousands, China’s Build Your Dreams (BYD)...

electrek.co

 

[basilio]

For those who want luxury and protection.

Check out this bulletproof electric luxury sedan from BMW, the i7 Protection​

Peter Johnson | Aug 9 2023 - 7:21 am PT

22 Comments



BMW unveiled its first bulletproof electric sedan this week, the BMW i7 Protection, as the automaker expands its emission-free models into new segments.

Meet BMW’s first bulletproof electric luxury sedan​

BMW has been building protection vehicles for over 45 years, but the i7 Protection marks a new milestone.

After releasing its first electric 7 series, the i7, last April, BMW’s latest creation goes beyond emission-free luxury travel.
The BWW i7 Protection is the German automaker’s first all-electric model in its protection category. The protection EV consists of a dedicated self-supporting body structure built with armor steel. Then, additional features are added, such as armoring for the underbody and roof and armored glass.

BMW’s armored EV offers customized protection from firearms and explosives. The BMW i7 Protection features class VR9 protection based on the official test criteria from Germany’s Association of Test Laboratories for Attack-Resistant Materials and Constructions (VPAM).

The certification is established according to guidelines for Bullet Resistant Vehicles, encompassing criteria for ballistic resistance along with adhering to the guidelines for Explosive Resistant Vehicles and PAS 300 for blast resistance.

Check out this bulletproof electric luxury sedan from BMW, the i7 Protection

BMW unveiled its first bulletproof electric sedan this week, the BMW i7 Protection, as the automaker expands its emission-free models...

electrek.co

The first-ever BMW i7 Protection, the new BMW 7 Series Protection.

The two models developed on the basis of the new BMW 7 Series succeed in blending an unrivalled protection concept with outstanding levels of ride comfort and spaciousness, exceptionally advanced equipment features and the class-beating dynamic prowess for which the brand is renowned. As the...

www.press.bmwgroup.com