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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.7%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.4%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 38 19.2%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.6%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    198
Jump to new
Value Collector said:
I am not sure how you think a hacker could use software to “disconnect” mechanical parts of the car such as brakes.
Click to expand...
.... If software can brake aka use the brakes,it can be made to NOT use the brakes.....
Your brakes mecanical component system is ok, just not useable /used...
Been the case since ABS but ABS was not updated via the air in the last 20y.
 
qldfrog said:
.... If software can brake aka use the brakes,it can be made to NOT use the brakes.....
Your brakes mecanical component system is ok, just not useable /used...
Been the case since ABS but ABS was not updated via the air in the last 20y.
Click to expand...
And now back to EVs as OTA updates issues are shared with ICE too...
 
qldfrog said:
.... If software can brake aka use the brakes,it can be made to NOT use the brakes.....
Your brakes mecanical component system is ok, just not useable /used...
Been the case since ABS but ABS was not updated via the air in the last 20y.
Click to expand...

Show me the technical circuitry for your hypothesis
 
qldfrog said:
And now back to EVs as OTA updates issues are shared with ICE too...
Click to expand...

A logged example from 2004: Ford Territory Ghia, 3 months old, under hard/emergency braking the brake efficiency was reduced by approximately 30%. Vehicle inspection by technician could find no fault or issue. Problem occurred a month later, vehicle was inspected again Ana again no fault found. Third time, owner refused to take vehicle from dealership until fault was found. Eventually the fault was found - one of the steering wheel sensors was not calibrated correctly from the factory.
 
This article shows how difficult it is to compete with China, when it comes to manufacturing.

Tesla's Elon Musk rules out China exports to the US

Elon Musk has denied a report claiming plans to export Tesla cars from China to the US, due to lower manufacturing costs that reportedly negate hefty tariffs on Chinese imports to the US.
www.drive.com.au
From the article:

Reuters says the gap between Tesla prices in the US and China is "widening" – attributed to rising US prices and new discounts in China – suggesting Chinese exports to the US are now feasible, despite the hefty tariff.

Tesla would not be the first US car maker to import Chinese-made cars to the US since the new tariff was introduced, Reuters notes; General Motors-owned brand Buick imports the Chinese-built Envision large SUV to North America.

Ford scrapped plans to introduce the Focus Active hatchback to the US market in 2019 – built in a factory in China – after the 25 per cent tariff was introduced by the previous US government administration, and the model could no longer be priced competitively.
 
Good morning
Some good news in the electric vehicle changing space, published through News Corp media today (15/11/22)
Happy Tuesday.

Kind regards
rcw1

More than 800,000 electric vehicles will hit Queensland roads over the next decade, meaning the state will need 1600 additional charging stations.

Andrew Kidd Fraser

An explosion in electric vehicles running on Queensland roads will require at least 1600 public charging stations to be built before the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games begin. Experts expect about 800,000 electric vehicles to be on the road in the next decade – a massive increase from the 10,000 currently registered in Queensland – requiring a charging location every 70km along arterial roads and off-grid facilities in remote regions.

While upwards of 80 per cent of charging facilities are expected to be in people’s homes or workplaces, public charging stations will be needed to allow motorists to undertake longer trips. Dr Kai Li Lim, the inaugural St Baker Fellow in Electromobility at University of Queensland’s Dow Centre for Sustainable Engineering Innovation, said a passenger-based electric vehicle mainly used for small trips was unlikely to use public charging facilities.

“It is only when an electric vehicle is travelling longer distances or away from their home region would they be more likely to use public chargers,” he said.

“With the assumption that traffic remains constant along arterial routes, we are looking at a total of about 1600 public dual-outlet DC chargers across the state across 84 additional sites.” He said the Electric Vehicle Council’s latest recommendation involved having one charging location every 70km along arterial roads. “However, the number of charging stations at each location would be largely dependent on local transport demands and local grid availability,” he said. “For more remote regions, we would possibly need to set up a microgrid or off-grid facility with renewables.”

The Queensland government started phase three of the Queensland Electric Superhighway this year, with a goal of adding 24 charging stations in regional areas such as Longreach, Barcaldine and Stanthorpe.

Phases 1 and 2 involved building 31 charging stations from Coolangatta to Port Douglas, and Brisbane to Toowoomba.

Trevor St Baker, the chair of Evie Networks, Australia’s largest provider of charging stations, said that the cost of electric vehicles was coming down rapidly, with basic cars and delivery vans likely to be rolled out for under $40,000 by the end of the year.

He said that the average driver of an internal combustion engine vehicle spent about $2160 to travel 15,000km, while the driver of an electric car would spend only $600 to travel the same distance.

But he also said that most debate in Australia on electric cars focused on the environmental aspects with reduced carbon emissions.

“But this has very little to do with climate change or saving the planet. That’s a very good by-product, but the main driver of a bigger upkeep of electric cars is cost,” he said. “After the initial purchase, there is about an 80 per cent reduction in transport costs for families and businesses. “Cars can also do around 450,000km for 90 per cent chargeability, so they’re lasting a lot longer. They can still have a second life as a city car after that.”

PwC Australia’s integrated infrastructure partner Katie Nguyen said the key to adoption of electric vehicles was through addressing affordability and accessibility

“Right now, electric vehicle uptake in Australia is low in terms of market share for total vehicle car sales, and we are lagging behind many other developed countries,” she said.

“While there’s no quick fix to get more people driving electric vehicles, a combination of ideas such as introducing fuel efficiency standards, financial incentives and government procurement of electric vehicles would all make a big difference to supporting a growing electric vehicle market.

“... there are a range of financial incentives available to improve the affordability and availability of electric vehicles, such as tax incentives to drive down costs, and grants to encourage local manufacturing and local assembly of electric vehicles and batteries.

“Government procurement of electric vehicles would increase imports and put more on the road, which would have the flow-on impact of growing the second-hand market as government-cars reach their renewal date. A better established second-hand market would create a different market and pricing offering, improving market affordability more broadly.”

RACQ chief David Carter said an important element of government support involved having an accelerated depreciation schedule for electric vehicles.

“The Tax Office would still get its revenue, but at a different time,” he said. “This would also help create a second-hand market for electric vehicles, so that in around 10 years’ time, you had a substantial market of used electric vehicles which were three or four years old.

Future Brisbane, in partnership with corporate and community leaders, is exploring the mobility and connectivity legacy priorities ahead of the Brisbane 2032 Games.


Edit: not sure whether the attachment; attached properly
 

Over the air updates are convenient, but mechanical parts wear out as well, so dealers aren't going to be redundant
 
How to wrap BS with pseudo math and science..part of the narrative
"Cars can also do around 450,000km for 90 per cent chargeability, "
All good for taxis indeed but
With average km per year for cars roughly 20000 kms, this could mean your ev will last 20y?
The EV shell yes it might, but you will have gone thru at least 2 packs of batteries.. probably 3.... In that time
 
Hello qldfrog
Twice in one day now....
Company has put in an order for 2 x Tesla 3's thingies... They arrive in May 2023 apparently.
Truth be told this piece of that article is what took rcw1's fancy...:

The Queensland government started phase three of the Queensland Electric Superhighway this year, with a goal of adding 24 charging stations in regional areas such as Longreach, Barcaldine and Stanthorpe.
Phases 1 and 2 involved building 31 charging stations from Coolangatta to Port Douglas, and Brisbane to Toowoomba.

Have a very nice day, today.

Kind regards
rcw1
 
SirRumpole said:
Over the air updates are convenient, but mechanical parts wear out as well, so dealers aren't going to be redundant
Click to expand...

I believe that you are the first, on here, to mention 'redundant dealers'.

Tesla, which I would guess is the king of OTA updates, have 'service' networks wherever they sell a significant number of their models. Their first preference is to assess the fault OTA, next is to drive their service vehicle to a location that the owner is at or suggests, next is to get the car into the 'service centre'.

The world is changing, it is becoming more environmentally friendly, heading back to the days when a manufacturer would build things to last and be able to repair and maintain for the long term. The 'throw-away' society that we became during the 70's to now is dissolving.

A vehicle that can update its software OTA will be able to stay in service a lot longer than one that can't, because it becomes cost effective.
 

Oh boy . You keep insisting on commenting on something that, at this stage, you know very little about.

​
One of the biggest mental hurdles to overcome when buying an electric car is the shelf-life of the battery. The battery - and the range they deliver - make up one of the most important buying decisions, and you don't want to be left wondering what will happen if that range starts to plummet.​
​
After all, a promised driving range counts for naught if your EV can only manage it for the first two years.​
​
The brands do their best to reduce those fears, of course. Tesla, for example, guarantees its batteries for eight years or 240,000kms, whichever comes first, on the Model S and Model X, with the brand promising 70 per cent battery capacity retention over that period.​
​
And if a recent test by Tesla Model S 70D owner, Branden Flasch, is anything to go by, that's exactly what you'll get. If not better.​
​
Branden's vehicle had reportedly travelled 234,964kms when he put it to the test - or just under the 240,000km ceiling - and the results of his test were very impressive.​
​
The Model S in question was purchased in 2015, and its owner charged it to 99 per cent before the test, and then driving it until the batteries are completely depleted, measuring its kWh usage to check the battery's depletion. The reported results have the Model S using 58.5kWh, roughly 83 per cent of their original 70kWh capacity.​
​
Now, it's worth pointing out that this is one well-driven Tesla. The average Australian drives around 13,000km per year. This Model S travelled more than three times that distance, at 46,800km per year over five years.​
 
​
....The new system proposed allows heterogeneous batteries with different chemistries to be integrated in a mobile system. SDB consists of hardware and software components. The hardware enables fine-grained control of the amount of power passing in and out of each battery using smart switching circuitry. The charging and discharging hardware is designed to be low-cost, and hence the algorithmic complexity of computing how much power to draw from each battery, and how to recharge each battery, is placed in the SDB software that resides in the OS.​
​
Deciding how much power to draw from each battery, and how to charge each battery is non-trivial. It depends on the efficiency of each battery under different workloads, the age of each battery, and also the user’s workload and usage profile. For example, if a high power workload is anticipated in the future, then it could be worthwhile conserving charge on the battery that is more capable of handling such a workload in an efficient manner.​
​
The SDB software component that resides in the OS implements a set of policies and APIs. The SDB software uses simple APIs to communicate with the SDB hardware. The algorithms implemented by this software use various metrics for increasing the single charge-discharge duration of the device, and the longevity of the batteries, and thereby decide the ratios in which to discharge each battery, and the ratios in which to charge them.​
​
The SDB design is cross-layer and involves new chemistries, additional hardware, and new OS components. Although an alternative SDB implementation can be hardcoded in firmware, the authors' claim that the cross layer approach has two main benefits.​
​
First, it opens up new battery parameters, previously unavailable to OS designers, for resource optimization. In existing mobile devices, the battery is usually treated as a black box, and is simply assumed as a reservoir of charge. OS techniques yield substantial gains in battery usage.​
​
Second, this design allows a system designer to select any combination of batteries for an optimal design, including new chemistries as they are invented, and developed. All of these can be enabled through a software update.....​
 
JohnDe said:
The 'throw-away' society that we became during the 70's to now is dissolving.
Click to expand...

I would like to believe that but it doesn't fit into the corporate psychology of continual turnover being required to ensure continuing profits.

World population is going to stabilise, we can't continue to extract diminishing resources so without turnover where are company profits coming from ?
 
SirRumpole said:
World population is going to stabilise, we can't continue to extract diminishing resources so without turnover where are company profits coming from ?
Click to expand...

You don’t need to have a throw away society to generate profits, and you don’t need a growing population either.

Even if the population stopped growing today, the world economy would still have plenty of growth left just because of rising living standards.

But the population has about another 50% growth in it before it’s stabilises, then we have to bring that population up to our level of lifestyle.
 
First VW, now Porsche.

Porsche misleading fuel economy emissions $80M class action settlement
Top Class Actions | October 26, 2022

Porsche to pay $80 mln to resolve fuel economy claims on U.S. vehicles
Porsche AG unit have agreed to a class-action settlement worth at least $80 million to resolve claims it skewed emissions and fuel economy data

It’s another emissions issue for Volkswagen and Porsche but the settlement is much smaller this time.
This settlement came about after owners sued Porsche for manipulating emissions and fuel economy test vehicles, to achieve better official figures. According to the settlement documents, owners were seeing 1-2 fewer miles per gallon than what Porsche was claiming and that affects vehicles dating as far back as 2005.

Porsche $80M Settlement: Owners Allege Fake Emissions and Economy Numbers
 
Don't know how you get to a 50% growth.
According to Nature
According to World population clock
Sometime this week, the earth will likely have its 8 billionth person born.
a 50% increase would take it to 12billion.
Even the most optimistic 10.9 billion forecast is well short of that.
The other forecasts limit it to 9.7 billion which is a tad less than a 20% increase.
Mick
 
Bonjour Mr Rcw1
The BS was the article, i was not shooting the messenger?
 

It is coming. Many more consumers are environmentally aware, they cringe when they have to throw a product out that appears to need only a minor fix or software update.

How can the EU product safety and compliance framework help promote product durability and tackle planned obsolescence, foster the production of more sustainable products, and achieve more transparent supply chains for consumers?​
​
Perhaps the best way to understand issues of product longevity is to see how they have played out, or might potentially be altered, for actual products. We delved deeper into two areas: (1)the automotive sector, and (2) smartphones and tablets.​
Even for a single product or sector, the environmental effects of an increase in longevity are complex. A study by Kagawa et al. (2008) showed plausibly that increasing the lifetime of passenger vehicles by a year in Japan from 1990 through 2000 would have generated substantial environmental benefits....​

The value of longevity: Product quality and sustainable consumption

Each year millions of consumer goods, from furniture and household appliances to clothing and footwear, are discarded. Many are thrown away prematurely, obsolete: functional but outmoded and unloved, technologically outdated but not upgradable, faulty but irreparable. Often they have been designed for life-spans far shorter than those technically possible.

As affluence has increased and durables are increasingly regarded as disposable there is clear evidence to suggest that throughput of goods in affluent, industrialised societies is unsustainable. Recently, however, signs of change have emerged, prompted by interest in resource efficiency and demands for waste reduction, and there is growing interest in increasing product lifetimes.
 
mullokintyre said:
Don't know how you get to a 50% growth.
According to Nature
Click to expand...


Just using round numbers in my head, eg 7.5 billion to 11 Billion is roughly 50%. (46%)

I didn’t realise we were so close to 8 billion now, (I hadn’t checked the population for a while I guess). But if you want to use 8 Billion it’s 37%.

Either way my point remains valid eg the population is going to keep growing for a long time, and then even a stagnant population will still see economic growth through raising living standards.

My other point is also that a stagnant population will see a lot of economic activity
 
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On the contrary.
Economic activity is not a constant throughout a persons lifecycle,
According to this paper in Science direct
It has been commented in some other posts how some countries (Russia, China, Japan, Spain, Italy among others) have an ageing population that will have significant effects on many cultures and societies. There will be fewer young people to support more older people.
As people get older, they tend to spend less, I see it among my peer group as people start to worry about how long their super will last, or whether their govt pension will see them thru.
The spending on big ticket items like houses cars, bikes, boats, Helicopters and planes, TV's etc will wane.
Eating out becomes a chore as they are less willing to travel out at night. They are more likely to watch sport on TV than go to the trouble of attending the event. They will require a lot more of government support in the health system.
Mick
 
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