Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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sptrawler said:
That's true but I would rather see them spending the money on charging infrastructure before subsidising the cars.
Everyone has their own preferences.
With solar panels the rich people who could afford them first, got the higher feed in tariff, now it serves everyone the feed in tariff is a lot less.
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I am of the opposite opinion, I think charging infrastructure will take care of its self, once the car numbers grow, look at Teslas global network it’s grown without government.

most of the non Tesla chargers sit there never being used, so ofcourse private businesses isn’t going to want to increase the number of chargers, but if you increase the number of cars, the utilisation rate of existing chargers goes up, which is enough incentive itself.
 
Value Collector said:
I am of the opposite opinion, I think charging infrastructure will take care of its self, once the car numbers grow, look at Teslas global network it’s grown without government.

most of the non Tesla chargers sit there never being used, so ofcourse private businesses isn’t going to want to increase the number of chargers, but if you increase the number of cars, the utilisation rate of existing chargers goes up, which is enough incentive itself.
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I think you are absolutely right, when it comes to major cities, especially Sydney, Melbourne, as with the telecommunications they will be well serviced.
So the majority are happy, situation normal.
I hope they do give a subsidy for E.V's, I'm looking into buying one ATM.
 
sptrawler said:
That's true but I would rather see them spending the money on charging infrastructure before subsidising the cars.
Everyone has their own preferences.
With solar panels the rich people who could afford them first, got the higher feed in tariff, now it serves everyone the feed in tariff is a lot less.
Click to expand...
I think they can do both.
However, to encourage BEV uptake we should adopt a progressive incentive regime which offers greatest level of subsidy to less expensive cars which, clearly, more people can afford. For example, $5k incentive for under $40k BEVs (none here yet, but offer the incentive and they will come), $4k from $40 to $50, $3k for $50 to $60, etc..

There are many possible measures but unfortunately Australia lacks a commitment to harmonising State/Territory incentives so we presently have a fragmented market and it's only going to get worse.

Much earlier in this thread I outlined many things which could be done, especially in relation to waiving importation taxes and duties for BEVs at the federal level, which is a starting point.

Some other ideas to encourage private ownership:
  • A federally backed car finance scheme for BEVs costing under $50kwith interest payments locked in at 2% above the prevailing Reserve Bank cash rate until annual BEV sales exceeded 20%
    • this would encourage earlier adoption due to fomo
  • Exemptions from road pricing charges (until 2025)
  • State reimbursement of road tolls (annual cap of $1k) for first 2 years of ownership
  • Old vehicle scrapping incentive of $5k towards BEV purchase where ICEV was over 15 years old.
The alternative to ideas encouraging BEV uptake would be measures to discourage ICEV ownership, although both could run in tandem.
 
mullokintyre said:
they are Teslas by the look of them.
Will probably sit there forever as so few people can afford to buy them!
Mick
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They’re all pre-sold. Production can’t keep up with demand, this has helped Tesla vehicles have one of the best resale value on the market.
EV sales in Australia got a boost in 2021. Tesla uptake and ownership in Australia started to show hockey stick growth as many more Australians decided to make the shift from ICE vehicles.

Diving deeper into 2021’s new Tesla ownership numbers revealed that Queensland edged Victoria in Tesla uptake during the year. I decided to compare these two states in our analysis as both Queensland and Victoria sold similar cars in 2020 of around 850 Tesla sales, while NSW sold 50% more Teslas so it was a fairer comparison.
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thedriven.io

How Tesla Model 3 uptake soared in Queensland, topping Victoria in 2021

Queensland Tesla sales edged ahead of Victoria in 2021, but only one state introduced EV rebates. So how did incentives help uptake in Queensland?
thedriven.io thedriven.io
 
Sometimes things just don't work out as the experts expect.
From Zero Hedge
It looks as though living the alternative energy EV dream is coming with higher costs...at least, that's what's being reported on the ground in Munich.
Germany's "messy transition to renewable energies" is resulting in an unpleasant surprise for EV owners at charging stations, energy-focused German blog NoTricksZone writes this week.
In Munich, the Stadtwerke München municipal utility has announced it is going to raise the price of electricity by 81%, the blog reported, citing multiple German news outlets.
“At the AC charging stations, the electricity price will rise from 38 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) to 49 cents per kWh, while at DC fast charging stations the amount will jump from the current 38 cents per kWh to a whopping 69 cents per kWh,” the Munich online daily Merkur reports.
“The current rates will remain in effect until the end of March, after which the charging cards of the municipal provider will lose their validity. The last increase by Münchner Stadtwerke took place three years earlier, in April 2019,” the article continues.

A customer commented, calling the price increase "no longer an adjustment", but instead just "brutal".

Bavarian CSU parliamentary group leader and e-car driver Manuel Pretzl said: “This is total madness. You can’t destroy the cost advantage of e-cars. At home, electricity costs around half!”

NoTricksZone, who first compiled the sources for this story, is a climate and energy news blog from Germany, written in English, by Pierre L. Gosselin.
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The EV users are still better off given the increase in cost of oil and hence diesel and Peterol prices.

Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
Sometimes things just don't work out as the experts expect.
From Zero Hedge

The EV users are still better off given the increase in cost of oil and hence diesel and Peterol prices.

Mick
Click to expand...

I don’t know about Germany but our Tesla is saving us a fortune in fuel bills.
My wife’s fuel card statement was over $300 per month for her Honda Accord Euro (great car, still own it). The electricity bill for the Tesla M3LR is a third.

88D6A540-ADA4-4CCC-9F85-EE98329D0D23.jpg

The app doesn’t give justice to the savings we’re making, the electricity price is Origin AUS, but fuel price is US & I haven’t worked out how to change it.
 
Finally a chance to invest in a solid Australian company - APE - making a big move into EVs.
APE's 5 year deal with BYD will give this carmaker a national presence that will stimulate EV ownership massively imho as the BYD EV car range is exceptionally good value for money ( I previously linked to their Dolphin model), with the new Han EV a standout vehicle:

1645743632093.png
As @JohnDe noted above, and @Value Collector has many times in this thread, while the purchase price is not cheap, the running costs save thousands every year and resale values are incredible as it's so hard to buy a quality EV in Australia that you can actually drive away the same day you pay for it.
 
rederob said:
Finally a chance to invest in a solid Australian company - APE - making a big move into EVs.
APE's 5 year deal with BYD will give this carmaker a national presence that will stimulate EV ownership massively imho as the BYD EV car range is exceptionally good value for money ( I previously linked to their Dolphin model), with the new Han EV a standout vehicle:

View attachment 138108
As @JohnDe noted above, and @Value Collector has many times in this thread, while the purchase price is not cheap, the running costs save thousands every year and resale values are incredible as it's so hard to buy a quality EV in Australia that you can actually drive away the same day you pay for it.
Click to expand...

Just in case it's relevant, BYD is a Chinese company.
 
SirRumpole said:
Just in case it's relevant, BYD is a Chinese company.
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SirRumpole said:
Just in case it's relevant, BYD is a Chinese company.
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21.5% of it is owned by Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffetts) company, and 0.00015% of Berkshire Hathaway is owned by Me, so just think of it as being a little bit Aussie, ;)
 
I was intrigued to read this headline in Sharecafe last week:

"Subsidy Pullback Hits Chinese EV Sales"​

While there were some good points, overall it totally failed to reflect the Chinese NEV market trend.
To begin January and February in particular are the weakest sales months for cars in China.
So while the December to January 2022 decline in sales was 18%, last year the same period's decline was around 30%, as shown below:

1645926111389.png​

The main problem with the article is that it failed completely to appreciate that NEVs in China are as cheap as ICEV counterparts across the board and are available at price points from US$4500 upwards, so most people with a job can now afford to buy an NEV. It also explains why the Wuling Mini EV is the world's top selling EV model with 395k units sold in 2021.

From an analytical standpoint the article also failed its own logic as NEV incentives have decreased each year, yet sales have doubled!

But mere numbers are only part of the story. NEV manufacturing in China has yet to reach scale, with even Tesla ramping up production at their Shanghai plant throughout 2021 and now into 2022. So while Chinese NEV incentives are declining, so too are manufacturing costs, while in-car technology is world class.

Another part of the article that amused me was this:
"LMC reckons EV sales are on track to reach 46.98 million in 2033, or 20% more than gasoline cars with a lot of the new growth coming from the US and Europe where Chinese companies (except Tesla) are going to struggle (Geely and Volvo might be an exception)."​
By 2025 it's difficult to see why any automaker would produce an ICEV unless it was for a market niche. However, it may be that not all the legacy automakers could pivot most of their production to NEVs due to material supply constraints, so that's where most ICEV numbers are likely to come from in subsequent years. My prediction is that LMC will miss its forecast by at least 5 years.
 
for those that might have missed it

Eagers Automotive enters Term Sheet to be exclusive Australian retailer for EV manufacturer BYD
• A new dealer group to be established for BYD products (which will be a joint venture in which Eagers Automotive will have a 49% interest) to become exclusive national dealership retailer for electric and hybrid vehicle manufacturer BYD
• Initial 5-year franchise agreement to provide an omni-channel retail footprint in all key markets in Australia
• The dealer group will leverage Eagers Automotive’s retail expertise, scale, geographic diversity, flexible property portfolio and innovative omnichannel retail solutions including integrated digital experiences available online and in shopping centres, service factories and existing physical retail footprint.
Eagers Automotive Limited (ASX: APE) announces that it has entered into a non-binding Term Sheet with EVDirect.com to establish a new joint venture, the dealer group, as the exclusive national retailer for BYD, the electric and hybrid vehicle manufacturer, as it enters the Australian market.
Eagers Automotive will have a 49% interest in the joint venture.
EVDirect.com has the exclusive distribution rights for BYD in Australia. Under the Term Sheet, the dealer group will be created to operate under a national franchise agreement to provide retail sales and after-sales service centres for BYD in all key Australian markets for an initial period of 5 years.
Established in 1995 and based in Shenzhen, China, BYD is one of the world’s largest and fastest growing automotive manufacturers, specialising purely in electric and hybrid electric vehicles.
BYD expects to commence deliveries of its first electric vehicle (EV) model in the Australian market from July 2022 with plans to increase to six models by the end of 2023.
Eagers Automotive is committed to working expeditiously towards completion of due diligence and the finalisation of binding transaction documentation. Commenting on the new joint venture, Eagers Automotive CEO Keith Thornton, said: Page 2 of 2 “We are very excited to be the retail partner for BYD Australia and EVdirect.com as they enter the Australian market.
BYD has clear ambitions to quickly grow its presence in Australia and increase EV penetration amongst Australian customers.

This confirms Eagers Automotive at the forefront of Australia’s transition to a cleaner vehicle future and recognises our national footprint, geographic diversity, retail expertise and commitment to providing innovative solutions for the future of automotive retail.” Luke Todd the founder and CEO of EVDirect.com said: “With its unrivalled Australian network, retail expertise and leading customer proposition, Eagers Automotive will provide the foundation for BYD Australia to fast-track its expansion in the Australian market. BYD has an aspiration to grow into a top 5 automotive brand in Australia by sales volume in the next 18 months. BYD’s EVs are known for leading edge technology, superior range and pricing that is on parity with comparable high-quality petrol vehicles, making them ideally suited to the Australian market.”
BYD Australia Pty Ltd General Manager, Wing You, said: “We have been impressed with the approach Eagers Automotive has adopted to provide retail solutions that are responsive to the changing demands of car buyers. It is very much aligned with our thinking and our plans to take BYD to market in Australia.
When combined with their scale, track record and geographic reach in all key markets, we believe the new combined partnership will further complement the existing strategic plan to expedite BYD’s ambitious growth plans.”

About BYD BYD (“Build Your Dreams”) was founded in 1995 by Wang Chuanfu as a rechargeable battery manufacturer and has grown into one of the world’s largest automotive manufacturers specialising purely in electric and hybrid-electric vehicles.
Listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, BYD is the fourth largest automaker in the world by market capitalisation, producing more than 1.5 million vehicles since being founded, with a record 603,783 units sold in 2021.
BYD is headquartered in Shenzhen, primarily serving the China market and customers in Europe.

-ENDS-

DYOR

i hold APE

looks like between WES and APE , i have EV exposure whether i wanted it or not
 
Further to @divs4ever post above, Eagers Automotive/ EV direct have also signed an agreement with Mycar, formerly Kmart tyres and brakes, to distribute and service the BYD vehicles. So Australia wide coverage should be reasonable.
www.carexpert.com.au

Local BYD importer appoints mycar to be delivery, service partner

BYD's bold-talking Australian importer, which intends to sell online-only, is pairing with mycar to both service and deliver new EVs.
www.carexpert.com.au www.carexpert.com.au
 
sptrawler said:
Further to @divs4ever post above, Eagers Automotive/ EV direct have also signed an agreement with Mycar, formerly Kmart tyres and brakes, to distribute and service the BYD vehicles. So Australia wide coverage should be reasonable.
www.carexpert.com.au

Local BYD importer appoints mycar to be delivery, service partner

BYD's bold-talking Australian importer, which intends to sell online-only, is pairing with mycar to both service and deliver new EVs.
www.carexpert.com.au www.carexpert.com.au
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Again....
 
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