Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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The decision as to which electric option H2 fuel cell or battery, is starting to evolve, it is becoming clear both options are going to be pursued for different applications. It all points to a very good outcome for consumers IMO.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/ineos...grenadier-targeted-124625.html?trackLink=SMH0
From the article:

When it arrives in Australia in approximately 2022, the Grenadier will have BMW-sourced 3.0-litre petrol and diesel engines under the bonnet. This announcement confirms the development of a hydrogen-powered Grenadier in the future however, as the new companies makes good on it's promise to diversify powertrain options.

Battery electric power hasn't been regarded as a good fit for the Grenadier, because heavy battery packs limit payloads, and a battery-powered driving range can be limited under load or working hard.


Mark Tennant, Ineos Automotive commercial director told British finance site This Is Money: "We do think that, longer term, the automotive business will simply be battery-electric vehicles. That might be right for smaller, lighter, cars but won't be suitable for this class of vehicle."

"We see hydrogen as a really viable technology, especially for large SUVs."

"We already supply a lot of commercial fleets today, such as buses. For us, that looks like a much better technology option than pure electric."

While Ineos Automotive is a newcomer to the car industry, parent company Ineos is a big hitter in the world of chemicals and petrochemicals. Ineos currently produces 300,000 tonnes of hydrogen every year as a by-product of chemical production.
Ineos is also Europe's largest operator of electrolysis, which uses renewable energy to produce hydrogen for power generation.
 
sptrawler said:
Well that was posted on November the 11th and already Victoria are following suite, but raising it by including hybrids which already pay fuel excise. :rolleyes: Also correct me if I'm wrong but isn't fuel excise a Federal tax?
Lucky a Liberal Government didn't come up with that one. :xyxthumbs On the face of it, a hybrid certainly won't save you much, one would have thought it would be somehow linked to battery size.
A 9Kw/hr battery in a car, will still use mostly petrol, whereas a 90Kw/hr BEV will use no petrol, it doesn't seem very proportionate to me.
www.drive.com.au

Victoria to tax electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles from 2021

They will be taxed per km
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:

Dan Andrews’ Labor Government confirmed it would charge owners of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles a usage fee from July 2021.
Victorian Treasurer Tim Pallas confirmed the per-kilometre-usage-fee on Saturday afternoon.
Under the new laws, full electric vehicles would be charged 2.5 cents per kilometre travelled while plug-in hybrid vehicles would face a usage tax of 2.0 cents per kilometre travelled.
Click to expand...

It seems completely at odds with what Victoria is trying to achieve in other areas.

For Example they have recently announced an $800 Million package to improve the states energy efficiency by helping people buy more energy efficient home appliances. You would think if that is their goal then it would be in their interests to get as many EV's on the road as possible, and not rush into prematurely bringing in taxes that are likely to turn consumers off due to miss understandings.

On the one hand they are providing rebates for people to buy batteries, and then introducing taxes on something that is likely to offset far more green house gases.

The Victorian government has unveiled a massive nearly $800 million home energy saving package that will incentivise smart appliances and heating systems, boost the energy efficiency standards of new and existing homes, and expand the state’s solar and battery rebate scheme.
Click to expand...

https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/vi...nted-800-million-into-home-energy-efficiency/
 
sptrawler said:
Battery electric power hasn't been regarded as a good fit for the Grenadier, because heavy battery packs limit payloads, and a battery-powered driving range can be limited under load or working hard.
.
Click to expand...

Isn't that vehicle in a similar class to Cyber Truck, I can't see a problem with making it full electric.
 
Value Collector said:
It seems completely at odds with what Victoria is trying to achieve in other areas.

For Example they have recently announced an $800 Million package to improve the states energy efficiency by helping people buy more energy efficient home appliances. You would think if that is their goal then it would be in their interests to get as many EV's on the road as possible, and not rush into prematurely bringing in taxes that are likely to turn consumers off due to miss understandings.

On the one hand they are providing rebates for people to buy batteries, and then introducing taxes on something that is likely to offset far more green house gases.



https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/vi...nted-800-million-into-home-energy-efficiency/
Click to expand...
I wonder, if they are just getting the jump on another tax stream? Getting in now, before BEV's are mainstream people will accept is because it doesn't affect many yet, introducing it later as a revenue stream would be much more problematic.
I remember Bob Hawke when he was first running for office, he said the first thing he would do was remove fuel excise, as it was a tax on the workers of Australia who had to drive to work, well as history proves what someone says may not be what they do. :xyxthumbs
 
sptrawler said:
I wonder, if they are just getting the jump on another tax stream? Getting in now, before BEV's are mainstream people will accept is because it doesn't affect many yet, introducing it later as a revenue stream would be much more problematic.
I remember Bob Hawke when he was first running for office, he said the first thing he would do was remove fuel excise, as it was a tax on the workers of Australia who had to drive to work, well as history proves what someone says may not be what they do. :xyxthumbs
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Probably, I did the math on the tax and even with the 2.5 cent tax, it still means the using a Battery Electric Vehicle when you can charge for 23 cents/KWH is equivalent to buying petrol at 56 cents per litre, But a lot of people won't do the math, and they will think this Tax some how makes EV's not worth it, which is sad considering all the benefits Australia would get if we had higher EV up take.
 
over9k said:
Well, roads cost money. Where's the money going to come from?
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I have no issue with the Tax system being altered so Ev's pay their fair share, I just think its way to short sighted to do it prematurely, there is just far to Ev's on the road to actually bring in any decent revenue, and at this stage they should be encouraged, and we should worry about taxing them later, say 5 years from now.
 
Alright, not saying I disagree with you, but I'll play devil's advocate:

Isn't that a bait & switch? Or would we grandfather it for older cars like we do with design regulations etc with current vehicles?
 
over9k said:
Well, roads cost money. Where's the money going to come from?
Click to expand...
A particular issue with roads is who funds them.

Most roads are owned by local government (councils) and funded by ratepayers. Wherever you live, the street out the front will be a local government road unless you're in the middle of nowhere and the nearest road is a highway.

Most other roads are state government. These are mostly highways or other major roads and normally don't have housing built along them.

A few highways are federally funded.

Which leads to a rather strange system where the federal government collects the money and the states constantly beg for some. :2twocents
 
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All EV's have kept pulling today on news of trump allowing biden to begin the transition.
 
over9k said:
Alright, not saying I disagree with you, but I'll play devil's advocate:

Isn't that a bait & switch? Or would we grandfather it for older cars like we do with design regulations etc with current vehicles?
Click to expand...
I'll observe that there's quite a history of that when it comes to fuel.

Diesel was free of tax back when even most trucks and buses used petrol. Then diesel became common for heavy vehicles. Then they taxed it.

Heating oil was another one. Pretty much every house built from the mid-1960's through to late-70's had oil heating. Then they sent the price to the moon at the end of the 70's.

LPG same deal. No excise until it became popular then on went the tax (for automotive use). LPG for automotive use is all but dead now - consumption is down almost 75% over the past decade (government stats) and new LPG vehicle installations are close to zero. It's only a matter of time until physical availability of the fuel for remaining vehicles becomes problematic since declining volumes are making it not worthwhile to keep selling.

So there's a few precedents there. :2twocents
 
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I can't see a constant tracking of the vehicle being accepted. That'd be a big brother nightmare.

Maybe someone coming to check the odometer every quarter like the power & water company does with the meters?
 
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I still think the asian electric vehicle manufacturers have legs in them yet on account of governments being desperate to reduce the horrific air quality (smog). That still exists here in the first world, but it's of particular concern over there.
 
over9k said:
Alright, not saying I disagree with you, but I'll play devil's advocate:

Isn't that a bait & switch? Or would we grandfather it for older cars like we do with design regulations etc with current vehicles?
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s a bait and switch, I mean EV’s are still cheaper even with the Tax, but delaying the Tax is a way to encourage it’s up take, think of it like a temporary discount.

They did exactly the same same thing with LPG, they delayed the Fuel excise on LPG for 10 years, giving consumers lots of notice that in 10 years a fuel excise would be incrementally added to LPG.
 
Looks like the Chinese car maker LDV, will be the first manufacturer to get an electric ute into the Australian market.
www.motoring.com.au

LDV T60 electric ute revealed - carsales.com.au

EV version of T60 replacement being considered for Australia
www.motoring.com.au www.motoring.com.au
From the article:

An electric version of the replacement for the LDV T60 pick-up potentially arriving in Australia in 2021 has been unveiled at the Guangzhou Auto Show in China.

Dubbed the Maxus New – Maxus being the name LDV utes are sold under in China – it is an obvious close relation of the big-grilled Maxus Pick-Up Concept first unveiled at the Chengdu motor show mid-year.

According to the Chinese website autohome.com.cn, the Maxus New comes with a 130kW/310Nm permanent magnet synchronous e-motor fed by an 88.55kWh battery. The range between recharges is claimed to be as much as 535km.
 
Value Collector said:
They did exactly the same same thing with LPG, they delayed the Fuel excise on LPG for 10 years, giving consumers lots of notice that in 10 years a fuel excise would be incrementally added to LPG.
Click to expand...
They did but since excise was applied LPG has lost three quarters of the automotive market it previously had and is fast heading to extinction. :2twocents
 
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