Election 2007

[2020hindsight]

Introductory stuff - get ready for the onslaught lol
Prime Minister John Howard Video

Kevin Rudd Video

 

[brettc4]

After watching those videos, Labor needs to get their lighting right.

 

[2020hindsight]

How about discussing things that will greatly affect your portfolio and the economy in general and the describe how you believe a Labor government will affect your portfolio compare to a Liberal government.

For example, the policies I believe will greatly affect the economy and stock market the greatest are

Brett
I can tell you my vote will not primarily be about the economy or my self interest.

But even on that score, I reckon it is difficult to discuss things like Australia's economic future without adding a timeframe - (longer than one electoral cycle).

I mean slashing the scientists (as the Libs did 10 years ago) gave them and the economy a short term advantage at the time - but has left us with a longer term problem, i.e. we can no longer claim to be the clever country (assuming we ever could I guess - but we were a damned sight cleverer then than now). (imo)

And much of the current economic prosperity (imo) goes back to decisions made by Hawke and Keating (which Johnny Howard agreed at the time) , floating the dollar, reduction in tarriff protection , remove the "sheltered workshop stuck down there down under somewhere" image, etc

PS you're spot on with Labor youtube light - maybe it's their new global warming policy ??

PS Question... Would the Chinese prefer to talk to a Chinese speaker even if the light was bad

 

[hangseng]

I fear for a nation completely dominated by labour governments.

Two successive WA labour governments have again shown how corrupt they really are. They also claim competent management based on continued record surpluses, the same surpluses made by the most regressive taxation regime in the country and rising property prices. The stamp duty paid on property purchases alone is obscene and noted as the main reason for the surpluses. Anyone can make money in business by simply raising prices, but this also becomes the downfall of the business due to competition. Governments have no such restriction as competiveness, just the depth of the pockets they pilfer unless we have a balance in government control.

I simply do not trust labour to run this country without competition.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes, because Liberal are just so evil aren't they? Labor has just been playing this game completely fair, right?
Rubbish - forgotten the little Labor/Union scare campaign already have we? Big Bad Work-Choices, going to ruin families! Terrible Nuclear Power Plants, in each of our backyards!

Don't go talking about scare campaigns, if you're a labor supporter

Labor runs scare campaigns as you said. Liberal did it last time over interest rates. The Greens have been running one over pulp mills in Tas for years.

ALL the same whether it's Labor, Liberal, Green or just about anyone else.

In reality, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Work Choices is a major change and as such must have SOME impact. It would be rare indeed for such a major change to have no negative consequences at all.

Interest rates might rise. Apart from the fact that it isn't bad news for everyone, it doesn't make a great deal of difference who's in government unless they do something truly drastic economically which seems unlikely assuming either Labor or Liberal.

Pulp mills pollute. No question there, practically everything pollutes somehow. But the Tamar is anything but pristine to start with and experience with pulp mills elsewhere, including in Tasmania, suggests the effects won't be anything like what opponents claim.

Balance is sadly lacking in Australian politics. It's all to rare these days to see objective reporting of both sides of any argument. The media's made it's mind up - interest rates should be low, pulp mills are bad and so is Work Choices. Anyone with an alternative point of view thus struggles to get it across to the masses no matter how valid it might be.

 

[marklar]

Both the major parties inhale deeply but unfortunately most of us have to choose one or the other (electorally it's referred to as "the split") as we don't live in marginal seats or seats with viable minor party candidates. Realistically all we can do is express our dissatisfaction by bumping up the informal vote, even if you pick every minor candidate first your vote still will end up with your second-last choice.

m.

 

[BradK]

To label something cynical, in the opening of a formal discussion...

Can anyone see my point here, or am I reading too far into all of this?

I can see your point. It's a fair call.

I just believe that this guy will say, promise or do anything to cling to power. And I sincerely think that will be a theme of this election. And I honestly believe that.

Cheers
Brad

 

[arminius]

how about this...
elect the labor party to government. the country is then run head to toe by the same people, reading off the same sheet of music.
if, in three years, the country has gone to hell in a handbasket, get rid of them.
give em a shot. maybe, just maybe, our nation would have improved and we are all happier (and wealthier)
of course global conditions will influence things heavily, but with bush gone, things might just pick up.
the democrats will be in power in the US. if brown gets re-elected 'the left' will control uk/usa/oz.
it would be a good test of their ideology for future generations.

i personally cannot wait to get rid of downer, abbott, ruddock, nelson
turnbull, hockey, coonan, and mcfarlane. bring it on.

 

[clowboy]

Ok, Here's my adult, TIC view:

I'm still stuck on Kevin-07's handling of the strip joint thing....

What sort of a bloke, let alone an Aussie bloke, get's pissed and goes to a strip club only to come out and say that he didn't have a good time, didn't look at the girls, and didn't think about touching?
What sort of a shirt lifter is he?

Don't think I want to trust a bloke like that with my vote..

Baz

ROFL

 

[clowboy]

, even if you pick every minor candidate first your vote still will end up with your second-last choice.

m.

Aint that the truth, that is why i think it is so currupt.

How many votes are made in this country that are just defaults? Try talking to my missus about the voting process. Lots of blank looks and sighs

 

[2020hindsight]

Howard's reconciliation speech - What was that all about?
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2058475.htm
Here's Malcolm Fraser's comments :-

After that have a look at others ...
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/

Through 10-11 years of this government policy has generally moved backward. Many have welcomed the presumed change of heart by this government, but is it a change of heart? Is it a core or a non-core promise? ...

The Government makes a commitment one minute to midnight to hold a referendum to mention Aboriginals in the Preamble to our Constitution. Such a referendum will almost certainly confirm that Australians generally want a fair go and a decent future for indigenous Australians, but that latter day commitment to a referendum by itself has little meaning.

Throughout the 10-11 years of its existence, Aboriginal policy has been in denial. The brutality of settlement across Australia in the clash with Indigenous Australians was denied and in current terms funding for health, for education, for housing, for the future, has been miniscule and inadequate.

Earlier this year there was a comprehensive report "Little Children Are Sacred" indicating many things that needed to be done to assist Aboriginals to overcome child abuse. The government ignored that report. It's more recent intervention in the Northern Territory, military in style did not adopt a single recommendation. The initial results of this intervention do not appear to be giving positive results for Aboriginal communities.

Of the first 700 children examined, apparently only two have been referred for examination in relation to sexual abuse, which was given as the reason for this arbitrary and unheralded move. It was a six month commitment. What is needed is a 20 year commitment.

We need to learn from the experience of Canada, which 30 years ago started to move well ahead of Australia in establishing the circumstances enabling their indigenous population to take charge of their own lives. Instead of the Canadian approach, with many positive results, the condition of Australian Aboriginals has not advanced, in some respects it has reversed. Less study at university, abstudy, by decision of a government made harder to get, and arbitrary paternalism replacing respect and esteem.

Australia is wealthier than ever before. It has for decades had the resources to provide adequately for Aboriginal advancement. Through 10-11 years of this government policy has generally moved backward. Many have welcomed the presumed change of heart by this government, but is it a change of heart? Is it a core or a non-core promise? The government is almost out of time. It has to call an election shortly, it faces the possibility of annihilation rather than welcoming the presumed change of heart and has welcomed it, but does it really mean change?

Without a commitment to the broad policy outcomes the government statement will mean nothing. A real future for Australian’s indigenous population will depend upon respect and esteem. That starts with an apology for earlier wrongs. The government still refuses that apology.

 

[Julia]

Brett c4 and Smurf have both managed to make useful contributions without getting into a slanging match. Let's try to emulate their examples.

I quite like Kevin Rudd and feel his background equips him pretty well to be Prime Minister. Although little has been spelled out in this regard, Labor typically shows more concern for the disadvantaged sectors of our society and I like that.

On the other hand, the Libs have done a great job with the economy (yes I know global conditions have helped ) and I'd be sorry to see this good management wiped away. The thought of Wayne Swan as Treasurer just doesn't work too well for me.

The great difficulties I have are (1) wall to wall Labor in all governments,
and (2) getting past personalities to seriously consider policies which hopefully will be unveiled in the next six weeks.
e.g. how do you not hear Julia Gillard's voice and monotonous drone?
how do you stop seeing Alexander Downer in fishnets every time you see his face on TV?

 

[2020hindsight]

..The great difficulties I have are (1) wall to wall Labor in all governments,

and (2) getting past personalities to seriously consider policies which hopefully will be unveiled in the next six weeks.
e.g. how do you not hear Julia Gillard's voice and monotonous drone?
how do you stop seeing Alexander Downer in fishnets every time you see his face on TV?

Julia
I used to worry about coast to coast Labour - but I think deep down I'm quietly looking forward to a (temporary perhaps) end to the State / Fed blame game.

as for the rest of the above excerpt of your post, lol - no comment.

 

[2020hindsight]

I'm still stuck on Kevin-07's handling of the strip joint thing....

What sort of a bloke, let alone an Aussie bloke, get's pissed and goes to a strip club only to come out and say that he didn't have a good time, didn't look at the girls, and didn't think about touching?
What sort of a shirt lifter is he?

Don't think I want to trust a bloke like that with my vote..

Baz -
do you remember how often (before Kevin became leader) he used to say that Downer or someone else was trying to sound "hairy chested".
like, he did it every second day lol.

Then he has to say he wasn't feeling particularly hairy-chested in that particular strip club on that particular night lol.

Poor bugga - I guess when your wife makes more that you , you have to be careful what you admit to.

PS Anyone remember Clinton "I did NOT have sex with that woman!"

 

[YChromozome]

The last election was about keeping Interest rates low, something I didn't believe at the time but it seem to do the trick in convincing the voter.

This election seems to be on economic policy and budget surpluses. Apparently if we vote Liberal we will have a budget surplus, and if we vote Labour we will have a deficit. Simple. If we vote Liberal, unemployment will continue to go down, if we vote Labour it will increase.

I tend to view this more on a global scale. I believe Howard & Costello has had the auto pilot switched on and is lapping up what is happening globally.

If you view the Government as a business, they make money from Taxes and their liabilities is unemployment benefits. If China has a huge demand for our resources, this boosts company profits, keeps unemployment at all time lows. Likewise, easy credit globally after tech wreck has encouraged housing assets to balloon in value, and consumers are using their houses as ATMs to further fuel consumer spending, help create jobs, boost company profits (and taxes) and keep unemployment low. The question is if this is sustainable?

Yes, the government may have decreased debt, but this is government debt. Consumer/Household debt has been spiraling out of control.

Now I can't help think it doesn't matter what party gets in, the global economy is likely to slow, consumer spending tighten (less revenue from GST) and unemployment go up meaning the government will have to fork out more for unemployment benefits. I believe the stage is already set, and what's the bet Labour gets in, the global economy goes sour and they get hit with the blame.

I'm not sure how Howard was responsible for China? Does anyone know? Did he formulate China's growth plans which is causing our economic prosperity?

So I believe there are other issues closer to home that need attention.

 

[2020hindsight]

I tend to view this more on a global scale. I believe Howard & Costello has had the auto pilot switched on and is lapping up what is happening globally.

.......

 

[YChromozome]

Cool - "Maintaining unsustainable economic prosperity - Safe as houses".

 

[nioka]

Go Johnny Go!

Which way do you mean that. I think it is time for him to go not get a go on.

 

[Smurf1976]

All Labor states and Terriotories are all in debt to the tune of $70 billion.

I can't comment on the other states as I'm not sure of the facts but in Tasmania at least it was the Liberals who said debt wasn't a problem and constantly attacked Labor for running at first balanced and then surplus budgets.

True to their words, the first ever majority Liberal government in Tas practically bankrupted the state in just 7 years from 1982 to 1989. Borrow, borrow, borrow being just what they did.

Labor and Liberal BOTH have a pretty shocking track record with debt in various parts of this country. If you look a bit further, you find that it is WHEN they were in power and not who was in power that counts. Governments in the 1980's lost their heads financially just as they flogged off the public's assets at rock bottom prices in the 1990's as a direct result of the panic over what they'd borrowed a decade earlier. Now we're stuck with water shortages and so on as a direct result of all that nonsense.

 

[Rafa]

Looks like businesses no longer seemed too worried about having Labor in power...

Certainly the stock market doesn't seem to care...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22585279-5014047,00.html

Labor's softening of its original policy and its willingness to delay many of the more controversial changes have helped reassure the business community that the practical result would not be as bad as they feared several months ago.
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It also helps the ALP leader that - despite the extraordinary strength of the Australian economy and booming profits - business is disappointed by the lack of a more consistent reform agenda for the future from the Howard Government.
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Many senior business figures are attracted by Mr Rudd's promises of fresh thinking and improvement in areas such as infrastructure, education and broadband, as well as his commitment to cutting red tape.

Business groups are also encouraged by the promise of working more effectively with state governments to drive major national reforms.
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And the Government's new fairness test has made Australian Workplace Agreements much less attractive and more like another red tape nightmare.