Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

rederob · 7 July 2020

Sdajii said:
Human health is literally dependent on the economy! Poverty is literally a killer. Whether you're talking about poverty on an individual level (individuals being more poor than their neighbours) or a national level (life expectancy in poor countries regardless of individual wealth) there are countless studies demonstrating clear, tangible links between life expectancy and quality of life and economics. It's not coincidence that poor people get sick more and die sooner than rich people. It's not coincidence that people in poorer countries get sick more and die sooner. It's not coincidence that this effect is dramatic when a country suffers economic damage, that is, if a country was previously wealthy and then collapses, it often doesn't cope as well as a country which wasn't previously wealthy; there's a difficulty in adjusting.

In terms of years of human life, we are killing a great many to save a few.

Cuba is proof positive of a health system that is not reliant on economic wealth.
Meanwhile the UK is proof positive that even the NHS cannot prevent high mortality rates if you get a country's messaging wrong from the outset.
Countries which do not support their poor certainly have higher early-death rates for their poor, for many obvious reasons.
We will see over coming years how the USA fares as a result of its attempt to keep its economy "open."
But we don't even have to wait to see how most east Asian nations are faring compared to the rest of the world.

IFocus · 7 July 2020

Sdajii said:
You really are a galah. You respond to 'The state of WA and the country USA are completely and utterly non comparable' with a nonsensical comparison.

Hmmm I know I am a Galah.......perhaps some self refection on your part re your need to keep making derogatory remarks on other posters reflects badly on ones self!

And you are absolutely right there is no comparison between Trumps leadership and WA's leadership Trump has been vacant for long periods of time, chaotic, divisive, dithering and at odds with the US leading experts.

McGowan has been the complete opposite thanks for pointing that out

IFocus · 7 July 2020

Sdajii said:
In terms of years of human life, we are killing a great many to save a few.

Could you put up some evidence of this it would be interesting to see the break downs.

IFocus · 7 July 2020

rederob said:
Cuba is proof positive of a health system that is not reliant on economic wealth.
Meanwhile the UK is proof positive that even the NHS cannot prevent high mortality rates if you get a country's messaging wrong from the outset.
Countries which do not support their poor certainly have higher early-death rates for their poor, for many obvious reasons.
We will see over coming years how the USA fares as a result of its attempt to keep its economy "open."
But we don't even have to wait to see how most east Asian nations are faring compared to the rest of the world.

Just to add the US is the richest or one of the richest countries in the world yet has a declining life expectancy rate.

SirRumpole · 7 July 2020

Sdajii said:
In terms of years of human life, we are killing a great many to save a few.

Can you prove that with some data ?

Have you factored in the drop in road accidents, violent and drunken crime on the streets and the consequent hospital admissions ?

(Just read IFocus beat me to it, but I'd like to see the data too).

IFocus · 7 July 2020

Knobby22 said:
Just keep seeing wild statements. Thought I would show of those who die their age groups and how many had existing conditions. New York is a good place to get the stats.
Shows that if you are 45-64 you are not totally safe.

Those numbers are also skewed as a result of the lock downs and restrictions demographics, hot spots etc had everyone been exposed the results would be significantly different as health care facilities get over run and care given to less people.

sptrawler · 7 July 2020

IFocus said:
Just to add the US is the richest or one of the richest countries in the world yet has a declining life expectancy rate.

You will probably find that is the case in a lot of countries, people are eating themselves to death.

macca · 7 July 2020

sptrawler said:
You will probably find that is the case in a lot of countries, people are eating themselves to death.

They eat a lot of fast food and the servings are HUGE

Smurf1976 · 7 July 2020

Sdajii said:
I'm not sure if you're joking or stupid when you ask how the country is losing. Have you checked how much money the government is chewing through every day to maintain the current insanity? Are you aware of how many people have lost their jobs and businesses? Are you aware that everyone unemployed, of which there are more than ever before, and being paid double the normal dole? Are you aware of how many people have sold out their superannuation? Are you remotely aware of the future implications of people selling out their superannuation now? I mean, if you get 10 credit cards and max them all out everything might seem fine for a few months, and perhaps someone like you may not see it as a problem until later...

The things you mention are all examples of wealth transfer within the country but not into or out of it as a whole.

Tourism is a net loss to Australia. It benefits government and creates employment but it's sending $ billions out of the country overall. It benefits individuals and some regions or even states certainly but overall from a national perspective it's in the same domain as smashing windows so that they can be fixed - it creates work and avoids spending on welfare but it's a loss in terms of actual wealth overall.

wayneL · 7 July 2020

macca said:
They eat a lot of fast food and the servings are HUGE

...and FULL of sugar!

Dona Ferentes · 7 July 2020

The most accurate comment in the RBA statement was nothing new, but it is even more relevant given the recent events in Victoria (an hour after release, Melbourne in a second round of lockdown)

“The substantial, co-ordinated and unprecedented easing of fiscal and monetary policy in Australia is helping the economy through this difficult period,” the statement said.

“It is likely that fiscal and monetary support will be required for some time.”

qldfrog · 7 July 2020

Dona Ferentes said:
The most accurate comment in the RBA statement was nothing new, but it is even more relevant given the recent events in Victoria (an hour after release, Melbourne in a second round of lockdown)

“The substantial, co-ordinated and unprecedented easing of fiscal and monetary policy in Australia is helping the economy through this difficult period,” the statement said.

“It is likely that fiscal and monetary support will be required for some time.”

And that means ASX up

satanoperca · 7 July 2020

What are you trying to say Sdjaii?

Sdajii said:
What is the endgame here? The virus isn't going to magically disappear. We can't stay isolated forever. Everyone will eventually be exposed. Delaying the inevitable is extremely expensive and will weaken us for decades including causing many deaths, depression etc (poverty is a killer in multiple ways), and we still need to deal with the inevitable. Jobkeeper and double dole run out in September. Things are going to get ugly then.

The pollies that are taking direction from the so-called experts (well experts in one field, but not all fields that produce a healthy and productive society) have got it all wrong?

Did Sweden get it wrong?
Population 10M, Deaths 5K, Mortality rate across population 0.05%

Have the USA got it wrong?
Population 330M, Deaths 150K, Mortality rate across population 0.045%

Has Australia got it wrong?
Population 24M, Deaths 103, Mortality rate across population 0.0004%

Looks like Australia are the champs, but wait, we have f---kd so many people's lives via crippling local businesses and job losses, saddled current and future generations with so much debt that can never be repaid, for what, a couple of 0's in stats.

Or is this virus not as bad as we think it is?
World population 8B, Deaths 500K so far, Mortality rate 0.00625

Well, people dying from hunger this year alone is 4,660,000 people.

I asked previously in this thread "How much is a human life worth?'

I bet anyone, for the money that has been wasted trying to stop something that is unstoppable we as a world could have save 1000 more lives by preventing hunger. But I suspect, most who have a voice about this virus and are making irrational decisions are well fed.

Smurf1976 · 7 July 2020

satanoperca said:
I bet anyone, for the money that has been wasted trying to stop something that is unstoppable we as a world could have save 1000 more lives by preventing hunger. But I suspect, most who have a voice about this virus and are making irrational decisions are well fed.

Another way to look at it would be to ponder how much was wasted on the completely pointless Iraq war and the whole "terrorism" thing in general given that 11 September 2001 killed essentially nobody compared to what COVID-19 has already done in the US alone.

Or how much was spent on the GFC and why were businesses which received assistance not required to publicly acknowledge this support and repay it in full with commercial rates of interest? That alone would fund plenty of medical care and improve lives.

Etc. This whole argument looks awfully like another case of trying to socialise the costs in the interest of private profit. I'd take it far more seriously if business proposed a middle ground that got things going whilst sharing the cost.

satanoperca · 7 July 2020

I agree with you Smurf.

Knobby22 · 8 July 2020

Post of the week Smurf.

qldfrog · 8 July 2020

Knobby22 said:
Post of the week Smurf.

Really?, drama of endoctrinement and sacrifice of generations for maybe a few above 70s.
You save a few to kill more
Honestly amazed by your and @Smurf1976 attitude there, full respect for the individuals, so obviously, and i hope you guys have done the same: i ask myself, could i be wrong?
I am no reb rob here
Nope, facts and figures are clear...
Proof if need be that scare panic hysteria and a bit of propaganda is a powerful tool
For your own integrity which i think you and others have
Look genuinely at the arguments and facts presented.
No answer wanted or needed.it is an ethical issue for you to solve

over9k · 8 July 2020

Again, it's totally moot. What we think SHOULD be done matters nothing. We have no control over it.

We need to stick to what will or might be done from here on out and why.

qldfrog · 8 July 2020

over9k said:
Again, it's totally moot. What we think SHOULD be done matters nothing. We have no control over it.

We need to stick to what will or might be done from here on out and why.

And that is why it is good to be here, as a sample of people reactions some of them bright but having fundamental visceral reactions.
It is a given the virus scared will not be invested or much, and will follow @over9k mindset.
Not a matter of being right or wrong, but exploiting the sentiments
That and the Victoria response means we are heading for the wall economically worsening instead of improving.not because of the virus, but by our reaction. Have to say our but not mine
Was wondering releasing super from cash, will not.
Keep in systems and O/S plays.
what a self inflicted disaster...

over9k · 8 July 2020

Not sure what you mean about my mindset and not be invested frog, I have tons of skin in the game

Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

rederob

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

SirRumpole

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

sptrawler

macca

Smurf1976

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

Dona Ferentes

Pengurus pengatur

qldfrog

satanoperca

Smurf1976

satanoperca

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

qldfrog

over9k

So I didn't tell my wife, but I...

qldfrog

over9k

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