Don't be afraid to post!

[pinkboy]

I apologise for subjecting you to a curse word.

Some of my staff have spent more of their adult life in jail than out , so Im pretty sure Im immune to a swear word or 2.

I don't have a problem with any one in particular. What I do have a problem with is pointless snark that more often and not appears where there is really no need for it. Ignoring it or living in a bubble of my own as if the problem doesn't exist won't make it go away.

My greatest sadness in terms of society is that everyone is capable of quality output, but unfortunately it is much easier to criticise others and for instance use the anonymity of the internet to throw around as much harshness as you please (the thread in question is now over 4 pages long - I feel aggravated that it really takes so many people to state the obvious in such scathing tones). I mean it's now clear that they are putting down a person with a "gambling addiction" and some unnamed "sickness". There are nicer ways of dealing with the situation. An eye for an eye doesn't usually solve any problems, it just creates more.

My greatest concern is that some of the people who have decried the declining quality and lack of pleasantness in the posts on this forum in the past are the same people who go out of their way to comment in those types of threads, and offer little in the way of actual investment talk.


I would prefer that people were given the chance to actually communicate with each other, than set up even more needless barriers (ie. the ignore system) and scathing messages.

Ves, honestly....a quality post above, and in some ways I agree with you, but it aint a perfect world. The thing with forums is, the mixture of people is so vast, that you will not please and satisfy all. So many differing opinions, so many different experiences, different personalities - the list is endless, so you have to 'agree to disagree', and let some things run their course. You cant control what you cant control....and a forum is certainly a place where controlled chaos is the normal. If you stick to the rules, contribute, have some fun, and take a dig every so often (withing extreme moderation) - then that should be accepted as life.

The guy is dishing out as good as he gets, cant work but can play hard, imagines up qualifications for aceptance then apologises for lying. Pretty manic if you ask me, and as explained above....just part of the parcel. The world, as much as we want it to be...just isnt always nice.

Also, my name is not anonymous (just FYI), and just like in a forum in real life I stick to the rules, contribute, have some fun, and take a dig every so often.


pinkboy

 

[pixel]

I'm not afraid to post.
But sometimes I ask myself, why bother?

When it became possible to exclude those distracting "General Chat" threads, I thought that might help me find more of stock-specific topics to contribute to. Remember? These are the Aussie STOCK Forums?

But look at VXL: One entry, no reply.
"New Posts" still bring up 90% of general argy-bargy. And even when someone confesses to being a Bad Trader and asks for help, the first attempts at constructive answers get quickly clobbered by personality clashes, accusations of ego-tripping, and other negativity.

Why bother, indeed....

 

[Wysiwyg]

My greatest sadness in terms of society is that everyone is capable of quality output

As much as this situation would be ideal, when dealing with mind, more so what is imprinted on mind, it isn't going to be that way unless every nasty thought is erased from the collective memory. The perpetuation of nasty thought (which can lead to nasty action) is evident every day in almost all walks of life. Passed from one person to the next, passed from one generation to the next, passed from one society to the next. You see, it has always been.

P.S. If I ever come across nasty, it is not my nature and it is not with intent. I am calm by nature but I simply don't accept the garbage mouthed by prawn heads, cowards, two bob watches, bullies, nutters, sly types, cage rattlers, loose screws, hot heads, short fuse types, antagonists etc. etc.

P.P.S. A thick skin, acceptance, understanding, calmness & humour (not taking what someone posts too hurtful) go along way toward 'handling' stuff in life. If all else fails then ignorance is bliss. I use this method with some of the more serious cases I have to deal with.

 

[galumay]

I'm not afraid to post.
But sometimes I ask myself, why bother?

When it became possible to exclude those distracting "General Chat" threads, I thought that might help me find more of stock-specific topics to contribute to. Remember? These are the Aussie STOCK Forums?

I find excluding the general chat threads helps a lot, there is so much polemic and aggressive posting from extremists at the opposite end of the social and political spectrum from mine. I would leave ASF if I had to read them!!

The forum has been an incredible resource for me developing my skills as an investor and there are so many incredibly helpful and generous people in the stock forums.

PS. I had never heard of VXL! Not my kind of company so I wont comment in the thread, but i get your point.

 

[Julia]

An eye for an eye doesn't usually solve any problems, it just creates more.

Often right, but it's difficult to just turn away when being gratuitously attacked. It's a healthy aspect of human nature to stick up for oneself, and I don't see why someone should not do so.

I would prefer that people were given the chance to actually communicate with each other, than set up even more needless barriers (ie. the ignore system) and scathing messages.

Shouldn't that be the use of the PM system? Rather than publicly attack someone with whom you disagree, why not send a PM asking for some clarification of what you perceive to be stated. The typed word is an imperfect means of communication and often a simple misunderstanding is at the basis of much grief and angst.

..... it aint a perfect world. The thing with forums is, the mixture of people is so vast, that you will not please and satisfy all. So many differing opinions, so many different experiences, different personalities - the list is endless, so you have to 'agree to disagree', and let some things run their course. You cant control what you cant control....and a forum is certainly a place where controlled chaos is the normal. If you stick to the rules, contribute, have some fun, and take a dig every so often (withing extreme moderation) - then that should be accepted as life.

That makes much sense. People are what they are. If we all had similar outlooks, political and philosophical views, levels of ego etc, I suppose there would be no forum. Disagreeing with a view doesn't have to be couched in the form of nasty personal attack.

 

[Ves]

Maybe I've failed in somewhat to communicate what I really wanted to say, but:

You can always control how you react to any situation.

I'm not confused between the reality of idealism (or perfection) and pragmatism: but I do think that forums (and the world in general) would be a better place if people tried to show qualities like empathy, respect, kindness, patience and showed the initiative to learn new things.

I realise that people are not and never will be perfect. But I do not think that that should be used as an excuse, there is nothing stopping them from wanting to be so - whether or not they get there or not.

Communication breaks down instantly when one side wants to just be heard and the other wants to have a discussion. The two aims are completely different.

Personally, I believe that blogs are better for those who want to be heard, because they have exclusive control over the content, and forums are better for those who want to learn and participate in discussions.

PS: pinkboy, I believe that humour or by-play in jest is crucial to finding the fun side of life and making light of the situation, but it is completely different from being scathing in your reply to someone's idea or comment! (The area may be grey, but a wise man will be able to learn the difference and a good audience will laugh or smile, and not frown or smirk).

 

[Ves]

It is easy to say thank you.

Missed this one! Very important IMO. Being thankful for things that you have, and especially those that you do not have make a big difference in how you interact with the world.

(And say thank you, especially for broccoli - thumbs up to those who get the reference )

 

[Wysiwyg]

Maybe I've failed in somewhat to communicate what I really wanted to say, but:

You can always control how you react to any situation.

That is an interesting idea and a state to aspire. My research and experience reveals this is not true. From mild brain pops to killing people, the mind is involuntarily reactive to some degree.

 

[burglar]

... PS: pinkboy, I believe that humour or by-play in jest is crucial to finding the fun side of life and making light of the situation ...

... (And say thank you, especially for broccoli - thumbs up to those who get the reference )

Cryptic !?

Pauline Hanson?

 

[Wysiwyg]

That is an interesting idea and a state to aspire. My research and experience reveals this is not true. From mild brain pops to killing people, the mind is involuntarily reactive to some degree.

Example :-

Kid A pushes kid B with a moderate strength hand thrust.

Reaction 1) Flight reaction - Kid B immediately cries and runs away
Reaction 2) Fight reaction - Kid B snots Kid A
Reaction 3) Action - Kid B experiences the push and neither cries nor hits back but simply walks away

Back to my cell now. G'night and be brave and post.

 

[Craton]

From mild brain pops to killing people, the mind is involuntarily reactive to some degree.

Isn't this the truth. Just human nature to do this whether we like it or not and very frustrating when it happens. Try as one might sometimes one says and does the very opposite to what one intends and for the life of me, can't work out why my dumb clunker body would want to do this.

There was a time when I'd just let this slide, maybe I was too shy, embarrassed or egotistical but as I've grown older I immediately attempt to make amends even at the detriment of soundly or looking like a fool. So what?
At least I feel better about myself and the more I do that, the less I seem to stuff up. Freudian slips notwithstanding.

A quick comment re. the General Chat thread. I agree it can be a distraction as there is a lot of tick for tack and to-ing and fro-ing going on, however I treat it more as a broad news service and I must say, there are some real gems of info therein. Agreed that not venturing into that place can be a real blessing at times.

On the thread topic and as a forum sponsor and admin elsewhere, there's the old 80/20 rule. 80% lurk and rarely if ever post. The bulk of the posts came from the most active 20%.

Then there's life outside of the internet/forums etc, I always go dark whenever work gets in the way or my partner and I head off for some R and R on the motorbike but being afraid to post. What's there to be scared of?
Only one's ego and sense of self importance.

Now I'm off to look at pixel's VXL

 

[craft]

Example :-

Kid A pushes kid B with a moderate strength hand thrust.

Reaction 1) Flight reaction - Kid B immediately cries and runs away
Reaction 2) Fight reaction - Kid B snots Kid A
Reaction 3) Action - Kid B experiences the push and neither cries nor hits back but simply walks away

Back to my cell now. G'night and be brave and post.

Thanks Wysiwyg - your post gives me the basis for hopefully explaining my thought on posting on ASF.

I am afraid to continue posting. ASF is too combative for me and my natural inclination is Reaction 2 above. A part of me that I don't particularly like.

I prefer reaction 3 but personally to achieve that I need to tackle it with total commitment, ie Totally walk away. To that end Joe has kindly agreed to disable my account so that I cannot return to posting and get caught up in a cycle of returning to reaction 2 despite my best intentions when recommencing to post after each self imposed break.

People will no doubt see the weakness in my actions - but I don't think I'm unique in finding the best solution to a combative environment is total isolation from it. Perhaps that's worth considering if you want the number of posters on ASF to grow.

So as my account is to be disabled and this will be my last post (really this time). I would like to finish by thanking those that I have had constructive dialogue with and apologising to those that I have not.

Some people here have really touched my life and given me extraordinary insights; I would thank you all by name except for fear of missing somebody – but you guys know who you are.

Happy Journeys.

Good Bye

 

[galumay]

So as my account is to be disabled and this will be my last post (really this time). I would like to finish by thanking those that I have had constructive dialogue with and apologising to those that I have not.

Some people here have really touched my life and given me extraordinary insights; I would thank you all by name except for fear of missing somebody – but you guys know who you are.

Happy Journeys.

Good Bye

****, there goes one of the posters I really have learnt a lot from over time - I must be blind too, because I never saw that side of Craft that has caused him to leave us.

 

[nulla nulla]

Missed this one! Very important IMO. Being thankful for things that you have, and especially those that you do not have make a big difference in how you interact with the world.

(And say thank you, especially for broccoli - thumbs up to those who get the reference )

I would not consider myself a close friend of broccoli although we do dine together regularly. Broccoli is much maligned and my good wife is quite supportive of broccoli. Apparently broccoli has powers beneficial for suffers of arthritis. However I have arthritis and I'm not convinced that broccoli has helped me.

Thanks Wysiwyg - your post gives me the basis for hopefully explaining my thought on posting on ASF.

I am afraid to continue posting. ASF is too combative for me and my natural inclination is Reaction 2 above. A part of me that I don't particularly like.

I prefer reaction 3 but personally to achieve that I need to tackle it with total commitment, ie Totally walk away. To that end Joe has kindly agreed to disable my account so that I cannot return to posting and get caught up in a cycle of returning to reaction 2 despite my best intentions when recommencing to post after each self imposed break.

People will no doubt see the weakness in my actions - but I don't think I'm unique in finding the best solution to a combative environment is total isolation from it. Perhaps that's worth considering if you want the number of posters on ASF to grow.

So as my account is to be disabled and this will be my last post (really this time). I would like to finish by thanking those that I have had constructive dialogue with and apologising to those that I have not.

Some people here have really touched my life and given me extraordinary insights; I would thank you all by name except for fear of missing somebody – but you guys know who you are.

Happy Journeys.

Good Bye

Craft
I hope Joe keeps the option open to reinstate your posting powers for such time, as may come, when you reconsider and wish to post again.
best wishes
nulla

 

[barney]

So as my account is to be disabled and this will be my last post (really this time). I would like to finish by thanking those that I have had constructive dialogue with and apologising to those that I have not.

Some people here have really touched my life and given me extraordinary insights; I would thank you all by name except for fear of missing somebody – but you guys know who you are.

Happy Journeys.

Good Bye

Hey Craft ....... Most here will be very disappointed in losing your input (I'm sure even those you have the occasional stoush with will miss you).

I assume there is nothing which would make you reconsider? If you do go, all the best. You could always come back in the future, maybe under a different name to start afresh?

Cheers and good luck either way.

 

[Faramir]

Hi Joe

Can you make this post sticky? "Present Value of Future Cash Flow"
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23385

Being a very slow reader, especially one who is easly side tracked, I would not like it if disappears after a while. It will take me a while to read. It has many links and I still need to read some of the articles, PDFs, etc. This is why it take a long time for me to read it. I do have it open on a second window but I need to allocate a big block of time to read it properly. I had to start again because I felt I did not understand the first 6 pages properly.

I never knew Craft, I never interacted with him. If I met him in person, not sure if I would like him, loathe him or love him. I will say this as the more inexperienced and newer member here. I definitely have a very high degree of respect for him. Others like Ves, McLoving plus others were fortunate enough to interact with him.

Being the position I am in (not just being new here and inexperienced) but not well off in life, I feel I should at least show and owe respect to everyone here. Especially those who have bent over backwads to provide valuable input to some of my questions.

If you can make that post sticky, I will be very grateful. I understand if you did not want to. I have not been on other forums. I can`t compare ASF to others. At least I feel this is the only one worth sticking to.

Craft will never read this, I hope he knows that there are many others who have not interacted with him, who have a very degree of respect for him. Thank you for all of your contributions.

 

[Craton]

Oh man! I'm so sorry to see you go too craft because that's one more person's valued point of view we have lost. In a sense too, the forum has failed you.

As mentioned before, I'm a forum sponsor and admin elsewhere on the web (since 2007) and I get these requests far too often. Of course, and I’m sure Joe does this too, the admins do their best to dissuade but in the end must comply. Although and please don’t take offence, there’s the odd few that we don’t mind seeing the back off. Still, it grieves to see people leave because I think and for whatever reason, that the member develops a very deep emotional connection to the forum.

Perhaps it's a character flaw, perhaps it’s a failing of the admin/mods or worse still, machinations behind the scenes via PM’s (often the case) that do the damage. Whatever the reason, this emotional connection then becomes too great to cope or deal with and hence the reaction is to leave. Sad, really sad that this occurs. Also again, there’s a sense that the forum has failed somehow to embrace and nurture the despondent.

On a personal note, being an admin and sponsor to boot has allowed me to develop a sense of perspective and depth of understanding that I’d never have thought possible. All simply because one cannot over react and timeout or ban a member if they, or I, don’t agree with a point of view or social expectations. Many times I’ve forced myself to count to ten, sleep on it, ignore it, let it slide, water of a ducks back all to find out later that my reaction was in fact, unjustified. Very humbling and so glad I didn’t make a mountain and a fool out of a mole hill.

Forums can and are a great source of information and entertainment, forums can also consume far too much of our RL time. One needs to put it all into perspective and find the balance, simply really.

Again, sorry to see you go craft. I too valued your contributions.

 

[Julia]

Example :-

Kid A pushes kid B with a moderate strength hand thrust.

Reaction 1) Flight reaction - Kid B immediately cries and runs away
Reaction 2) Fight reaction - Kid B snots Kid A
Reaction 3) Action - Kid B experiences the push and neither cries nor hits back but simply walks away

Possibly a fourth option: instead of A pushing B at all, he calmly and politely explains to B why he feels annoyed or upset. B considers A's objection. Then they engage in a respectful discussion and either agree to disagree or come to an understanding of the reasons for each of their positions.

We cannot in reality expect kids to do that, but adults should be able to, rather than resorting to aggression.

We all have biases and carefully considered views that will have originated from our life experience. Others will disagree with those views. Such difference of view is what makes a forum interesting. But when disagreement with a point expressed turns into a personal attack, it's hurtful and unnecessary.

All around us there seems to be hatred and viciousness. It might sound a bit unrealistic, but I think in a sense it's contagious. Social media seems full of bullying and pure nastiness. Our politicians reveal themselves to be corrupt, promises are made and broken, people who should be acting in our best interests instead put their own gains ahead of that priority.

It's often hard to remember that amongst it all, most ordinary human beings are doing the best they can, often in the face of heartbreaking difficulty. We here see one another only in the form of a nic and opinions posted about a particular subject. We don't know anything (in most cases) about what else might be going on in their lives. Have you, eg, just attacked someone who is already trying to cope with an autistic child, a demented parent, their own debilitating illness?

Imho there are two human traits that are much undervalued, kindness and unkindness. It's easy to be either, the latter particularly on a forum where you can be anonymous.

 

[Ves]

Time for me to step aside for a while.

I wish everyone all the best and I trust that the dialogue above gives a fresh perspective on what is important in communicating with others, and indeed, what makes for a happier life.

Cheers and I hope that we meet again soon.

 

[Julia]

All the best, Ves. I value the discussions we've had which allowed the opportunity to heal misunderstandings and provide insights. This exchange was largely what gave rise to comments I've made above.

Thanks very much for your many helpful comments in the SMSF threads.
Hope it won't be too long before you return.