Don't be afraid to post!

[Julia]

+1 This, and the addition of a "dislike button", would be welcome additions for me. I also often would like to show my approval or agreement with a post, but think simply quoting it and adding +1 is a waste of space.

Doesn't it simply convey the same message/appreciation as a Like button? That's certainly how I see it.

Perhaps more to the point though is my reluctance to post an alternative view to those posters who are known to take poorly any criticism, real, implied or imagined. I've often started to post, and then thought better of it when I considered the never-ending arguments and requests to justify my view etc that would probably ensue, especially by some regular posters who often take every comment that doesn't coincide with their point of view as a personal attack.

DocK, perhaps I've missed some of your posts but my impression is that you have often received considerable appreciation for your remarks which are invariably sensible and well considered. Without such input existing regular contributors will simply lose heart and go elsewhere. Yes, perhaps simpler to just avoid potential ramifications of any comment, but a shame. Discussion and debate is interesting and healthy. Often forces us to clarify or adjust our own established views. Just my thoughts, of course.

I'd love to see some more general comments from e.g. Ves and Craft, both of whom have thoughtful views always.

 

[burglar]

... invariably sensible and well considered ...

I concur that DocK does good posts.
I also enjoy posts by Smurf and pixel!!

 

[Joe Blow]

+1 This, and the addition of a "dislike button", would be welcome additions for me. I also often would like to show my approval or agreement with a post, but think simply quoting it and adding +1 is a waste of space. Perhaps more to the point though is my reluctance to post an alternative view to those posters who are known to take poorly any criticism, real, implied or imagined. I've often started to post, and then thought better of it when I considered the never-ending arguments and requests to justify my view etc that would probably ensue, especially by some regular posters who often take every comment that doesn't coincide with their point of view as a personal attack. This is, of course, most common in the general chat threads.

Hi Doc, many thanks for your feedback!

It's true that some people take criticism very badly. However, on this particular point I think there are faults on both sides. Conversely, some people offer their criticism in a very combative and attacking way.

What I would like to see more of is constructive criticism. I think criticism that is offered in a positive, encouraging way is more likely to be better received than criticism that takes the form of an attack or personal slight.

I'm not accusing anyone of either, just pointing out that for every time I've seen someone take criticism badly, I've also seen it offered poorly. People respond much better to encouragement than a perceived attack, and I think that there is room for improvement both in the offering and the accepting of criticism.

So far as the stock threads are concerned, I've often turned to ASF to see what the general opinion of a company may be, only to find the most recent post on it to be months or years old. As a relative novice in trading/investing I'm loathe to be the one to ask what may be interpreted as a stoopid question - and I will try to overcome my fear of embarrassment in this regard.

I agree that this is a problem, and I have done everything in my power to encourage more posting on stocks and it is very frustrating that I can't seem to motivate people to update more stock threads with information, announcements or analysis. Sadly, some of our best posters on stocks such as piggybank and springhill seem to have all but given up, making the situation even worse.

I cannot emphasize enough that momentum and increased activity is vital to keeping a forum dynamic and active. More posting leads to more posting and less posting leads to less posting. After ten years of being a forum administrator that is one phenomenon that I have observed time and time again.

Almost everyone has stocks that they follow. If there is an interesting development such as an important announcement, it only takes a couple of minutes to post a few sentences about it. This often encourages further posts and sometimes an extended discussion.

All I can do is to urge people to keep posting in stock threads. If everyone here let others know what is happening to stocks they follow we would have dozens of stock threads updated every day, and much more discussion. If we are going to turn things around everyone needs to pitch in and make an effort to add posts on a regular basis to the threads of stocks on their watchlist.

This could change overnight if everyone decided to make a concerted effort to increase their posting in stock threads.

 

[springhill]

Sadly, some of our best posters on stocks such as piggybank and springhill seem to have all but given up, making the situation even worse.

Haven't given up Joe, as some would know I have been involved in a major ongoing battle to save my sector of the food production industry from collapse - which is now entering it's 3rd year.
As part of this, I am working my full time job and filling 3 voluntary roles within industry, leaving precious little time for my wife and newborn, much less my hobbies in life ie, stock analysis.

The long and short of it is that the battle will be over one way or another within the next couple of months.

If I fail in our objective I may have more time than I know what to do with other than contribute to ASF!

I hope to be back posting sooner rather than later.

To those indecisive as to whether their post matters or not, we all started with zero posts. It is not just those that post everyday that make ASF what it is - it is all contributors whether they be new, intermediate or rusted on devotees.

 

[Tyler Durden]

+1 This, and the addition of a "dislike button", would be welcome additions for me.

I support the idea of a 'like' button, it shows support for the author of a post without any unnecessary posts. However, I would be against the idea of a 'dislike' button. Hotcopper used to have a system where you could upvote or downvote a post, and it facilitated a very hostile environment. Now that they have recently changed to an upvote system without the option to downvote, it seems that the environment is a lot less hostile.

 

[Vixs]

I feel like adding 'upvotes', while being an easy way of showing agreement or recognition for a post, could lead to hollower conversation as people go, "Yeah, that's close enough. It's not what I would have said, but it's close enough." and hit an upvote or like button. I think there may be a risk that you'd lose some engagement from the people that say, "While I largely agree, did you consider 'x'?".

That said, I know this forum like most must get a lot more visitors than contributors. Any way for lurkers and those who do wholeheartedly agree with something without wanting to post to show some activity on threads and posts could be helpful and liven things up. It's a bit disheartening to start a thread and see 100 views and 0 responses, but at least if someone can show recognition of the content rather than just flick to the next thread it might prompt some activity.

 

[Julia]

However, I would be against the idea of a 'dislike' button. Hotcopper used to have a system where you could upvote or downvote a post, and it facilitated a very hostile environment. Now that they have recently changed to an upvote system without the option to downvote, it seems that the environment is a lot less hostile.

At the risk of offending DocK, +1. The new HC format is much better.

I feel like adding 'upvotes', while being an easy way of showing agreement or recognition for a post, could lead to hollower conversation as people go, "Yeah, that's close enough. It's not what I would have said, but it's close enough." and hit an upvote or like button. I think there may be a risk that you'd lose some engagement from the people that say, "While I largely agree, did you consider 'x'?".

Such a good point. Whilst it's nice for people to passively agree with a post it's much better for them to progress the conversation by adding or querying a point.

Springhill, all the best with your industry battles. Must be really hard going. I look forward to your always interesting contributions when you're able to get back here.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Just thought of something.

A looooong time ago, I used to frequent a message board where they had a 'karma' system. You could get karma points for doing good things, like creating threads or receiving upvotes for your own posts. Karma was little green blocks underneath your name, and the more you had, the more credible you were deemed to be and with a better reputation.

It gave people some incentive to participate and come back to the forum, as everyone wanted to increase their own reputation. I guess you could say it was akin to an internet forum's version of reward points on a credit card.

The down side though is you might encourage 'too many' posts, which would lower the quality of posts in general.

It is noteworthy that once this particular forum removed the karma system, participation pretty much went down the drain.

 

[qldfrog]

I support the idea of a 'like' button, it shows support for the author of a post without any unnecessary posts. However, I would be against the idea of a 'dislike' button. Hotcopper used to have a system where you could upvote or downvote a post, and it facilitated a very hostile environment. Now that they have recently changed to an upvote system without the option to downvote, it seems that the environment is a lot less hostile.

Same here a dislike button IMHO would be a bad idea and be very negative: if you do not agree on a post at least explain why.
If it helps...

 

[coolcup]

Just thought of something.

A looooong time ago, I used to frequent a message board where they had a 'karma' system. You could get karma points for doing good things, like creating threads or receiving upvotes for your own posts. Karma was little green blocks underneath your name, and the more you had, the more credible you were deemed to be and with a better reputation.

It gave people some incentive to participate and come back to the forum, as everyone wanted to increase their own reputation. I guess you could say it was akin to an internet forum's version of reward points on a credit card.

The down side though is you might encourage 'too many' posts, which would lower the quality of posts in general.

It is noteworthy that once this particular forum removed the karma system, participation pretty much went down the drain.

I have seen this as well on another forum and it works great, encouraging better quality posts and more of them.

 

[DocK]

At the risk of offending DocK, +1. The new HC format is much better.

Same here a dislike button IMHO would be a bad idea and be very negative: if you do not agree on a post at least explain why.
If it helps...

No offence taken. My reason for thinking of a "dislike" button was prompted by reading one of the more contentious threads where one contributor was doing their best to have a logical, reasoned discussion and was being met by vitriol and personal attacks by another poster. I would have liked to lend my support to one, while letting the other know that the tone of their posts was unwelcome - without actually buying into a thread that I had not been involved in, and without bringing down a torrent of abuse upon myself for interfering. Perhaps this makes me a bit of a coward, but to be frank the expectation of being "virtually harangued" does quite often make me wonder "why bother - I really don't need this type of feedback in my life, why invite it?" I wondered if a poster who was being quite disagreeable on a personal level (not simply disagreeing politely/respectfully with another) received several "dislikes" if that may get the message across to them that they'd gone too far? Perhaps a "Bad Karma" button ??

Sadly, a post I made on a stock thread last week has gone unanswered, and another two companies I looked at this morning also had posts that had not been responded to for some time - BXB & ICQ. It's getting to the point where ASF is dominated by general chat (which is interesting and I'm in favour of it remaining), and lacking on the actual stock discussion. It would be lovely to be able to get both on the one forum. Keep trying Joe!

 

[Julia]

My reason for thinking of a "dislike" button was prompted by reading one of the more contentious threads where one contributor was doing their best to have a logical, reasoned discussion and was being met by vitriol and personal attacks by another poster. I would have liked to lend my support to one, while letting the other know that the tone of their posts was unwelcome - without actually buying into a thread that I had not been involved in, and without bringing down a torrent of abuse upon myself for interfering. Perhaps this makes me a bit of a coward, but to be frank the expectation of being "virtually harangued" does quite often make me wonder "why bother - I really don't need this type of feedback in my life, why invite it?" I wondered if a poster who was being quite disagreeable on a personal level (not simply disagreeing politely/respectfully with another) received several "dislikes" if that may get the message across to them that they'd gone too far?

Isn't it possible to compliment the person in this instance who is maintaining the sensible posting style, thus making it clear you don't like the aggression displayed by the sparring partner? On 'interfering', it's a forum, there for people to contribute their responses where they want to. The likelihood of then incurring some negative feedback surely shouldn't be a deterrent to expressing a view?

As I said earlier, I've not observed any of your posts receiving negative feedback, so I'm a bit puzzled about why you'd anticipate this. I guess few people are insensitive to nastily expressed criticism, but it's fairly rare here except for a couple of serial offenders.

I know what you mean, however. Some years ago I recall complimenting you on something, an absolutely genuine attempt of recognition over a particular issue, only to be sharply admonished for being patronising.
I was very taken aback, but there you go. Often criticism can occur as a result of someone's interpretation of a well meant remark. It's one of the very real problems in non-visual, non-tone of voice/facial expression that's part of internet communication.

Some ratings systems seem really silly to me. One forum has icons denoting 'Top Posters'. These are apparently the people who have made the greatest number of posts. Nothing to do with the quality of the posts at all. Frequently they're full of political partisanship and insults towards those who are disciples of the opposite side of politics.

ASF used to have Junior and Senior members, from memory also according to number of posts. Such a good thing to have abandoned that for the same reason.

Then in any sort of rating system I suppose those ratings are going to be totally subjective. What one poster 100% supports, another will decry. Someone could make good quality, thoughtful posts, but if they are not in sympathy with the predominant political/philosophical ethos of that forum, they probably won't receive the recognition they deserve.

Sadly, a post I made on a stock thread last week has gone unanswered, and another two companies I looked at this morning also had posts that had not been responded to for some time - BXB & ICQ.

With over 2000 companies listed on the ASX, I suppose the chance of someone else on a relatively small forum such as ASF following any particular company (except for some speccie gone wild etc) is not great.

So many interesting, thoughtful posters are no longer here, some because they just got busy with other things, but many who found the lack of stimulation because of the same few people regularly posting just not enough to keep them. So if people who just think about replying to someone's remarks, then just can't be bothered, ASF will continue to bleed people. Meantime, Joe's costs in providing this environment for us remain.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Folks, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot disagree in good faith and still engage in a constructive discussion without personal attacks, accusations and people announcing they are leaving ASF for good.

Even if two people can't find any common ground, it is still easy to add someone to your ignore list and move on.

Surely if we treat each other with a basic level of courtesy and respect at all times this sort of thing can be avoided?

 

[qldfrog]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

indeed Joe,
and while I am not involved in the discussed trading, I would just point that a jumbo being shot in the middle of the trading day has had a major effect:
I would really hesitate to draw any lesson as to following trend or not on such a day!
Unless yopu only trade on black swan days, or have an army of missiles waving/suicide bombers and hurricane/earthquake making soldiers at your order.
but that would be insider trading
trying to light up the mood!!!

 

[pavilion103]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Folks, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot disagree in good faith and still engage in a constructive discussion without personal attacks, accusations and people announcing they are leaving ASF for good.

Even if two people can't find any common ground, it is still easy to add someone to your ignore list and move on.

Surely if we treat each other with a basic level of courtesy and respect at all times this sort of thing can be avoided?

Joe, I have created this thread, put my neck on the line with live trades, spent hours of time providing in-depth analysis for the sake of beneficial conversation.

I am more than happy to agree to disagree with people. What I do not appreciate is blatent trolling, belittling myself and my trading methodology in a personal way.

Maybe the ignore list is an option as you said.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Joe, I have created this thread, put my neck on the line with live trades, spent hours of time providing in-depth analysis for the sake of beneficial conversation.

I am more than happy to agree to disagree with people. What I do not appreciate is blatent trolling, belittling myself and my trading methodology in a personal way.

Maybe the ignore list is an option as you said.

Pav, this is a great thread. It's an example of everything that is good about ASF; people coming together to further ideas and methodologies in a constructive way.

The only reason I jumped in here was to remind people that it doesn't have to get personal. It only does if you allow it. Always give others the benefit of the doubt, and resist the temptation to let the tone and level of debate deteriorate unnecessarily.

If that means using your ignore list then so be it.

 

[tech/a]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Folks, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot disagree in good faith and still engage in a constructive discussion without personal attacks, accusations and people announcing they are leaving ASF for good.

Even if two people can't find any common ground, it is still easy to add someone to your ignore list and move on.

Surely if we treat each other with a basic level of courtesy and respect at all times this sort of thing can be avoided?

Ill answer this when I have time in your "Don't be afraid to post thread.''

Hard to believe I know but I have strong views on this and forums in general.

 

[notting]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Folks, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot disagree in good faith and still engage in a constructive discussion without personal attacks, accusations and people announcing they are leaving ASF for good.

Even if two people can't find any common ground, it is still easy to add someone to your ignore list and move on.

Surely if we treat each other with a basic level of courtesy and respect at all times this sort of thing can be avoided?

I'll help you with that.

It's a combination of laziness and impatience.

It's easier to call someone 'a dick' than articulate exactly what it is you feel is stealing your thunder, causing you to lose face or pissing in your pool.

Don't want to ignore anybody.
How else would you know what they are saying about you if you cannot see it?
The alter ego is very important and must be protected so one can remain feeling important, smart, insightful and seen to be totally on top of it.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Ill answer this when I have time in your "Don't be afraid to post thread.''

Hard to believe I know but I have strong views on this and forums in general.

I'll be very interested to read your views tech, as you have been on both sides of this debate many times. You have started threads where others have openly criticised your views and methods, occasionally causing you to abandon the thread. Conversely, you have also never been afraid to call a spade a spade in threads that others have started, always expressing your views in no uncertain terms and without apology.

Given your long posting history here at ASF, I'm curious about where you think the line should be drawn.

To keep this thread on topic, I'll move most of these posts to the "Don't be afraid to post!" thread after tech posts over there.

 

[barney]

Re: The transition to Futures trading

Folks, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people cannot disagree in good faith and still engage in a constructive discussion without personal attacks, accusations and people announcing they are leaving ASF for good.

Even if two people can't find any common ground, it is still easy to add someone to your ignore list and move on.

Surely if we treat each other with a basic level of courtesy and respect at all times this sort of thing can be avoided?

One word Joe, Ego.

The human Ego is often very unattractive!