Did John Howard "apologise" for interest rate rise?

[glenn_r]

Did Keating, Hawke or Whitlam apologise for their double digit interest rates?

More importantly will Rudd apologise for his double digit interest rates, when his union mates stuff up the economy?

 

[cuttlefish]

I don't think Keating's ever shied away from the 'recession we had to have' comment - i.e. he took responsibility for it and the situation. He did however do it in a way that was perceived as arrogant by the electorate, who were suffering through the situation, and they sent the message through to him loudly and clearly when election time came around. This possibly explains why Howard is taking a more tactful approach in dealing with the current situation.

 

[Julia]

ok Julia - I understand what you are saying
do you understand what I am saying?
that to say ...
"I'm sorry I ran over your dog"...
without any rider ...
is an apology yes?

(and hence, if Howard claims to be at the economic wheel, then he was also apologising when he said "I'm sorry rates went up")

Re the dog: No, because it depends on the circumstances. If you ran over the dog in a scenario as I described earlier, i.e. the dog ran out and you were unable to stop, then of course you would be terribly sorry that you ran over the dog but would not be apologising in the sense of being to blame for the dog's death.


If, however, you had plenty of time to see the dog which was simply sitting in the middle of the road and you made no attempt to divert your course to avoid running over it, then, yes you would be apologising for killing the dog in the true sense that you were accepting blame.
(But if we were being literal here, I doubt if you were the sort of person to deliberately run over a dog, you'd be too much into apologies either.)

OK, can we please leave it now?

And no, I do not agree that if John Howard said he was sorry that rates had gone up he was therefore apologising for rates having gone up. I have already said this. I'm not going to say it even one more time!

 

[noirua]

Hi Julia, Has 2020 run over someones dog at killed it. If so, the kindest thing to do is to buy the person another dog and pay for one of those doggie memorials. Or perhaps I misread your post and it was either yourself or John Howard who ran over it.

 

[cuttlefish]

the dog should have been in a fenced yard or on a lead anyway shouldn't it?

 

[2020hindsight]

ok
I still think its an apology - and I wouldn't like your chances of convincing an independent arbitrator that it wasn't - - I mean I think 99% of people would agree with me ( no rider remember). ...

but conversely.... ( and this is important because it possibly reveals a Freudian slip by Howard) ..

IF he were NOT at the economic wheel - then "I'm sorry the rates went up" would NOT be an apology - it would compare with "I'm sorry someone ELSE ran over the dog".

He claims it wasn't an apology
therefore he admits he is not at the economic wheel that drives these things.

 

[nioka]

This is getting a bit confusing. When did John Howard run over a dog. If he did was he sorry. Did he try to run over the dog or did he just not try to not run over the dog. Was it a big dog or a little dog. Was it one of the dogs I'm holding or is it one I sold. Was it listed on the asx. If not then how come it got run over in the first place. Did it deserve to get run over anyway. Was it a non core dog. Was it a union member or a terrorist dog. Do we want the dog replaced?. All I want is Howard replaced before the country goes to the dogs and gets run over.

 

[cuttlefish]

Maybe it was one of Peter Reiths dogs (the ones from the waterfront disputes). He'd be a bit sore about running over one of those if he wants to keep going with workplace reforms.

 

[skint]

Did Keating, Hawke or Whitlam apologise for their double digit interest rates?

More importantly will Rudd apologise for his double digit interest rates, when his union mates stuff up the economy?

For a start, interest rates where higher under Howard as treasurer than they were under Whitlam. What did the Libs do to improve our international competitiveness 1974-83? Absolutely didley-squat.
Lets look at the unions role in curbing inflation and by extension, reducing rates.
1) WAGES - When Hawke came to power, it was on the back of the last big wages explosion in 1983, courtesy of Howard. Howard was completely unable to work with unions and got nowhere. Hawke was able to reach a consensus with the unions to implement a wage freeze for a year or so in the 1st wages accord. Subsequent accords abolished pattern bargaining (Howard couldn't) and also tied wage increases to productivity increases (Howard couldn't). In short, the current constraints on wages breakouts and also productivity promoting policy were implemented under a Labour government with cooperation of the unions. That is, the the unions were integral to achieving what Howard couldn't.
2) INFLATION - in the mid nineties Bill Kelty (ACTU leader), Jenny George and Martin Ferguson (both union leaders) met with Keating and proposed an inflation target of 2-3%. Keating agreed, as did the Reserve Bank, which adopted the policy. At the time Australia was pretty much the only country to have such a target, but of course now many do. Keating recently produced the minutes of that meeting and Fraser also recently agreed that the unions were crucial to containing inflation at the time. Again labour and the unions were able to achieve the big economic changes that Howard didn''t and couldn't. He has been reaping the benefits of these changes for the last decade, an era of global economic boom.
3) FLOATING OF THE DOLLAR - you'd be hard pressed to find an economist who thinks the floating of the dollar hasn't increased our econmic competitiveness enormously. Once again, the question arises as to why Howard didn't conceive of this pretty basic truism. It was Labour that took the initiative.

These were the really big macroeconomic changes that has allowed Australia to benefit as much as it has from the biggest post war global economic boom. What are the big reforms that have occurred under Howard in 11 years? Except for lowering the wages of the lowest paid, I can't think of any. He just keeps bangin' on about how good he is at managing the economy, while at the same time spending like a drunken sailor This ata time when the Reserve is continually warning how much we need to curb expenditure in the current climate.
Howard's a good economic manager? - TURN IT UP!

 

[Julia]

Nioka and Cuttlefish, thanks for causing me to laugh so much that my own dog came up to see what was going on!

You are entitled to be confused. I'm not sure whether it's my fault or 2020's. I accept half the blame for all the dogs that are now lying dead on the road.
But then again, as you suggest, Cuttlefish, damn dogs should have been in a fenced yard in the first place. So neither I, 2020, or John Howard would have to apologise for killing any dogs. Or take responsibility for erecting doggie memorials on the side of the road. In fact, we could get the dog's owner to apologise for his dog causing the problem.
Could I backtrack and replace the dog with a possum, do you think?
Dogs are wonderful and I'd hate them to be hurt, but possums are a whole different question.

 

[nioka]

Could I backtrack and replace the dog with a possum, do you think?
Dogs are wonderful and I'd hate them to be hurt, but possums are a whole different question.

Definitely not. I don't expect anyone, even John Howard, to apologise for running over a possum. I know what they do when they run wild. As a New Zealander I suggest you know how big a pest they can be.

 

[2020hindsight]

Nioka and Cuttlefish, thanks for causing me to laugh so much that my own dog came up to see what was going on!

You are entitled to be confused. I'm not sure whether it's my fault or 2020's. I accept half the blame for all the dogs that are now lying dead on the road.

........
Could I backtrack and replace the dog with a possum, do you think?
Dogs are wonderful and I'd hate them to be hurt, but possums are a whole different question.

Lol - must aagree

and I accept 50% of the blame but (da dah) I'm sorry
.... not a single percent more.

PS The reference to possums Julia - sorry but your Kiwi prejudice towards one of our Aussie icons is showing
Mind you I had possum in a restaurant in Devonport a year or so back - not bad at that .

 

[Duckman#72]

1. I disagree that the comparison is imperfect Julia , because Johnny was "at the wheel"

If I can jump in here.....I think whether or not you believe John Howard was apologising or not depends upon your personal view of Howard and his Governments ability to directly control interest rates.

My belief and level of understanding is that while the Government's policies can influence the direction of the economy and therefore play a secondary role in moving interest rates, it cannot directly control interest rates. Mr Howard has no ownership of the apology because technically he didn't directly cause it to happen.

The dog story isn't really right 2020 because you are suggesting that Howard was completely responsible for the interest rate rise (ie behind the wheel). For a simple story like a dog and a car that's fine. It is not so clear when it comes to the economy.

If I can suggest another analogy where the Economy is a small child and the Carer is Howard and the Government.

The carer might tell the child's mother..... "I'll make sure nothing happens to him". Now the carer makes sure the child eats vegetables and fruit 3 times a day, makes sure he wears a singlet to bed, makes sure he has 8-10 hours sleep a night, walks the child to and from school every day. The carer can do everything that a responsible carer should do but if doesn't mean the child won't catch the german measles from Prep or falls off the slippery dip and breaks his arm. In which case ...yes the carer is sorry it "happened" but......did not personally cause the illness or sickness.....and I might add has done everything a reasonable person would do to stop any harm from arising to the child. In fact another Carer in charge may not have done as well.

Whether or not you want John Howard to apologise depends on whether you think he was directly responsible for rate rises. Simple.

Duckman

 

[chops_a_must]

Whether or not you want John Howard to apologise depends on whether you think he was directly responsible for rate rises. Simple.

Duckman

The stick in the mud is that in the past he did take ownership over interest rates. That's totally separate to anyone's view of him.

 

[2020hindsight]

If I can jump in here.....I think whether or not you believe John Howard was apologising or not depends upon your personal view of Howard and his Governments ability to directly control interest rates.

My belief and level of understanding is that while the Government's policies can influence the direction of the economy and therefore play a secondary role in moving interest rates, it cannot directly control interest rates. Mr Howard has no ownership of the apology because technically he didn't directly cause it to happen.

The dog story isn't really right 2020 because you are suggesting that Howard was completely responsible for the interest rate rise (ie behind the wheel). For a simple story like a dog and a car that's fine. It is not so clear when it comes to the economy.

If I can suggest another analogy where the Economy is a small child and the Carer is Howard and the Government.

The carer might tell the child's mother..... "I'll make sure nothing happens to him". Now the carer makes sure the child eats vegetables and fruit 3 times a day, makes sure he wears a singlet to bed, makes sure he has 8-10 hours sleep a night, walks the child to and from school every day. The carer can do everything that a responsible carer should do but if doesn't mean the child won't catch the german measles from Prep or falls off the slippery dip and breaks his arm. In which case ...yes the carer is sorry it "happened" but......did not personally cause the illness or sickness.....and I might add has done everything a reasonable person would do to stop any harm from arising to the child. In fact another Carer in charge may not have done as well.

Whether or not you want John Howard to apologise depends on whether you think he was directly responsible for rate rises. Simple.

Duckman

but duckman - my opinion is that anything that takes that long to explain has gotta be pedantic (as well as semantic) -

why didn't he just say "these are the six interest hikes you had to have" and get on with it -

maybe stop pretending he's in control, the financial messiah - accept the ruling that he's a "very naughty boy" lol (as jonojpsg said, I suspect quoting Monty Python in Life of Brian(?))
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222459&highlight=messiah#post222459

 

[cuttlefish]

glad you enjoyed the humour Julia - hope we didn't scare your dog!

 

[Julia]

glad you enjoyed the humour Julia - hope we didn't scare your dog!

No, Cuttlefish, she's fine. She's just glad she's not a possum, destined to be run over with no regrets all round. It's good to be a little silly sometimes.
Thanks.

 

[Julia]

Definitely not. I don't expect anyone, even John Howard, to apologise for running over a possum. I know what they do when they run wild. As a New Zealander I suggest you know how big a pest they can be.

Yep, Nioka. I dislike them almost as much as I dislike mosquitoes, hence my suggestion of placing them on the road for 2020 or John Howard to run over.
Wouldn't even need a roadside memorial then.

 

[Flying Fish]

Will Rudd apologise now that he had opened a can of worms.

 

[noco]

For God sake, can't you fanatics let sleeping dogs lie. Let John Howard and all his predecessors R.I.P.
Watch the next three years when KRUDD and his union bashers flex their muscles.
Kevin 07 started in heaven, Kevin 08 thought he was great, Kevin 09 now in decline, Kevin 010 never again!
:horse::horse: