Did John Howard "apologise" for interest rate rise?

[Julia]

Much has been raked over amongst the various media in the last few days regarding whether John Howard's saying "I am sorry that interest rates have gone up. I recognise the extra burden this places on families" (or words to that effect) actually constitutes an apology for said interest rate rise.

He later said that saying he was sorry that this had happened was not the same as him apologising for the rate rise.

The Opposition has quibbled that when Mr Howard said that his words above he was actually apologising for the rise in rates, and that for him to say he was not, is simply playing with semantics.

What do you think?

I don't think saying he is sorry something has happened is at all the same as apologising - and therefore taking responsibility - for that happening.

e.g. if your mother has died, I will quite reasonably say "I am sorry to know that your mother has died". That is entirely different from my saying "I apologise for your mother dying".

 

[son of baglimit]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

you have taken all the fun out of this thread julia - you already answered your own question.

the final bit reminds me of an old joke of someone returning from holidays and their housesitter explaining what happened to the cat, and then their elderly mother.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

Julia
I guess I could say "I am sorry I voted for him last time"

now would that mean that I regret it ?
or that I am apologising?

The man is full of hollow tricky changeable chameleon semantics.
Likewise, he says he's sorry/regrets whatever his falling out with the abs - then next day says he "hasn't changed one iota" !!??

- full of shallow meaningless bs (imo).

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=212111&highlight=aboriginal#post212111

Malcolm Fraser:-
The Government makes a commitment one minute to midnight to hold a referendum to mention Aboriginals in the Preamble to our Constitution. Such a referendum will almost certainly confirm that Australians generally want a fair go and a decent future for indigenous Australians, but that latter day commitment to a referendum by itself has little meaning.

 

[Julia]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

Son of Baglimit, yes, you're right I guess. But that's just my interpretation.
I'm still interested in what others think.

2020, well obviously you regret your vote but you are not apologising to anyone for it, so I suppose you are agreeing with me, and therefore with John Howard regarding the difference between saying sorry and apologising.

 

[doctorj]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

I'm not sure why he's apologising.

- the reserve bank is independent
- i'd much prefer rate raises, rather than rate cuts on the basis that rises generally coincide with good times and cuts coincide with bad.
- Australia makes up a very small part of the global economy, a great deal of inflationary pressures are external

And on top of that, who cares that he apologised/said sorry. Australia stopped listening to him months ago.

 

[Flying Fish]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

Much has been raked over amongst the various media in the last few days regarding whether John Howard's saying "I am sorry that interest rates have gone up. I recognise the extra burden this places on families" (or words to that effect) actually constitutes an apology for said interest rate rise.

He later said that saying he was sorry that this had happened was not the same as him apologising for the rate rise.

The Opposition has quibbled that when Mr Howard said that his words above he was actually apologising for the rise in rates, and that for him to say he was not, is simply playing with semantics.

What do you think?

I don't think saying he is sorry something has happened is at all the same as apologising - and therefore taking responsibility - for that happening.

e.g. if your mother has died, I will quite reasonably say "I am sorry to know that your mother has died". That is entirely different from my saying "I apologise for your mother dying".

Doesn't matter who is in power rates are up regardless , so blaming it on johnny or anyone else is a waste of breath.

Wats an even bigger waste of money is all the rubbish that labour send to my letter box, and roadside plackards and even letters in my car registration.

 

[Flying Fish]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

Julia
I guess I could say "I am sorry I voted for him last time"

now would that mean that I regret it ?
or that I am apologising?

The man is full of hollow tricky changeable chameleon semantics.
Likewise, he says he's sorry/regrets whatever his falling out with the abs - then next day says he "hasn't changed one iota" !!??

- full of shallow meaningless bs (imo).

sounds like you are a bit bitter, or perhaps you never read between the lines lol

 

[cuttlefish]

So which is it - is his government able to keep interest rates lower or not?

When they're falling he and Costello crow about how its their policy thats kept interest rates low, but when interest rates are going up of course its nothing to do with them and they have no control over it. He and Costello just come across as complete hypocrits.

 

[Mrs Mackie]

So saying sorry is not apologising when it comes to interest rates, but it is when it comes to how aboriginals were treated by our ancestors? Interesting.

 

[Flying Fish]

So which is it - is his government able to keep interest rates lower or not?

When they're falling he and Costello crow about how its their policy thats kept interest rates low, but when interest rates are going up of course its nothing to do with them and they have no control over it. He and Costello just come across as complete hypocrits.

It does not matter who is in power cuttlefish.

If you really want to blame someone, blame the fat **** general public who like to work for nothing

 

[Nyden]

It does not matter who is in power cuttlefish.

If you really want to blame someone, blame the fat **** general public who like to work for nothing

Too true, don't even get me started there! Gonna get me in a frenzy

I don't blame Howard for the rate rises; as someone else said - The Reserve Bank is independent.

Do you think if Labor had been in power; we'd be better off right now? I laugh at that, because we wouldn't. Heck, if Labor had been in power - it would have been Beazley! Even though the new IR laws wouldn't have been around, I'm sure he still would have found something to "Rip up!!"


So; I guess in conclusion - he gave us more than he needed to. He's in a lose/lose situation; Labor will spin this either way!

If he apologizes more directly; Labor will go about advertising in their commercials that Howard admits to hurting his "working families".

If he does nothing, Rudd will complain about him not owning up to his "responsibility"

& If he does give at least a partial apology; as he did - well, low & behold; folks are still complaining.



Too late, frenzy occured


Edit:
In addition - I would just like to say; that if Rudd gets into power...let's all come back here next election time - and see how many of his promises he'll have kept. Let's see if our schools and health system have become world-class under his 'revolution', I'm a pessimist - and I'll believe it when I see it. It's easy for Labor to criticize, isn't it...even though, they're doing such a spectacular job on a state level

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Did John Howard "apologise" for interes rate rise?

sounds like you are a bit bitter, or perhaps you never read between the lines lol

FF, this is "form" for howard. (not sure about bitter - am sure that howard could do better)

(and you're right about reading between the lines - like, if you think the words mean something - eg the recent ab apology - then - with howard at least - you have to give it the "past form" test - i.e. wait for a day or two till he completely overturns your first impression, you may conclude that his words mean very little, and that they are not genuinely meant).

SEMANTICS

1. He regrets the stolen generation but won't apologise;
2. He says that he personally didn't say that interest rates would stay at record lows - just his party advertising said that;
3. He says that he wants to clarify misunderstandings with the abs, but, oh no, he wont be the one changing;
4. and now he's sorry that rates went up, but since he has nothing to do with it, , there can be no blame laid at his door, and no way can that even be remoting linked with an apology. (?)

The English language has many oportunities to twist things.
Diplomats do it all the time. For instance when an aggressive developer wants to rip the heart out of an old suburb , they say they make a "Submission" to the council. - as if there's anything "submissive" about it !

As for trying to differentiate himself from his party (the 2003 TV ads about rates staying at record lows) - how ridiculous was his defence, and how much more credible if he had just pleaded a stuffup. Trouble then of course, those ads were pivotal to the 2003 coalition campaign. :2 twocents

PS I'll post a postscript to this on the Election thread.

 

[megla]

So saying sorry is not apologising when it comes to interest rates, but it is when it comes to how aboriginals were treated by our ancestors? Interesting.

here, here!

Actually, I think his apology(?) is akin to that of a criminal who is sorry for their actions - but only when they get caught out!

 

[2020hindsight]

............

 

[2020hindsight]

great comparison megla.

or as they said on Insiders -
"I'm sorry I ran over your dog"
"I'm sorry someone else ran over your dog"

so ? who was at the wheel ?

... (was anyone??)

or was the economy just being buffetted by the fickle winds of international trends -
trying unsuccessfully to dodge the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune etcetc

 

[Julia]

So saying sorry is not apologising when it comes to interest rates, but it is when it comes to how aboriginals were treated by our ancestors? Interesting.

To be fair to John Howard, I think what he has said re the aboriginal problem is that he is sorry it happened, that he regrets it has happened, but he has consistently refused to offer an apology on the basis that to do so would be for himself personally and the current generation of Australians to accept the blame for what happened. I agree with him and so, I suspect, do the majority of Australians.

2020, your analogy about running over the dog is somewhat imperfect; you could be driving along in a completely responsible fashion and if a dog suddenly darted out (chasing, e.g. Prospector's shaved cat), not giving you time to stop, you would of course be sorry you had run over the dreaded dog but you should not feel a need to apologise for doing so in that it was not your fault. Of course you would say "I am sorry I ran over your dog - there was no way I could have stopped in time."

 

[noirua]

It seems that lots of John Howards have apologised, though I expect you mean John Winston Howard, beloved Prime Minister of Australia: http://parris.josh.com.au/humour/xeno/howard.htm

 

[2020hindsight]

2020, well obviously you regret your vote but you are not apologising to anyone for it, so I suppose you are agreeing with ...John Howard regarding the difference between saying sorry and apologising.

er - nope (in context I was not apologising, in context he was - or should have been - he was at the wheel after all )

1. analogy about running over the dog is somewhat imperfect; you could be driving along in a completely responsible fashion and if a dog suddenly darted out (chasing, e.g. Prospector's shaved cat), not giving you time to stop, you would of course be sorry you had run over the dreaded dog but you should not feel a need to apologise for doing so in that it was not your fault.
2. Of course you would say "I am sorry I ran over your dog - (plus rider) there was no way I could have stopped in time."

1. I disagree that the comparison is imperfect Julia , because Johnny was "at the wheel" and furthermore
2. the example I gave didn't add the "rider" about the inability to stop. (and even if it did, it still qualifies as an apology surely)

Incidentally only an insensitive moron would argue
3. that he could add riders / mitigating circumstances (coudn't stop in time) the following day, and
4. that by his saying "sorry" followed by mitigating circumstances (ok so far)

meant that you weren't even apologising !!
c'mon!

His plea should be "Guilty with mitigating circumstances" - and of course, with adequate mitigating circumstances, the charge could be dismissed by the judges ( in this case the electorate).

here's a poem on the subject.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222285&highlight=semantics#post222285

 

[Julia]

Oh God, I give up, 2020. I'm sure you get what I am meaning and are simply extending the argument for fun. I withdraw.

 

[2020hindsight]

or as they said on Insiders -
"I'm sorry I ran over your dog"
"I'm sorry someone else ran over your dog"

ok Julia - I understand what you are saying
do you understand what I am saying?
that to say ...
"I'm sorry I ran over your dog"...
without any rider ...
is an apology yes?

(and hence, if Howard claims to be at the economic wheel, then he was also apologising when he said "I'm sorry rates went up")