Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Descending Triangle Breakouts - My World

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Hi Chorlton - reply follows PM

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Hi Dutchy,

I hope you don't mind me emailing you but after reading your above thread, I wanted to ask you a few questions about your approach.

Firstly, I'd just like to say that I definately like your set-ups as it encompasses the elements of trading that I think are vital for making consistant profits such as the abilility to read the Price / Volume relationship and using this relationship to find low-risk entries.

From what you have kindly posted on the thread, your "rules" seem to be:

1) Look for set-ups forming within Stage 1.

Would you consider looking for "reversed" patterns within a Stage 3, with the intention of shorting? The reason I ask is that you mentioned that you would like to trade more frequently if possible.

The LESS frequently I enter and exit positions the better - I'd rather the market do the work that jump in and out - still $$$ has a time value as well and not prepared to have my capital just sitting

2) Enter above the weekly 30MA

Is there any reason, why you have chosen 30 or is it simply to indicate the direction of the underlying trend?

No real reason - Bedford used it and makes sense to me re share stages

3) Average Daily of > 300,000

Are you referring to Volume here? The reason I ask is that some of the charts posted seem to have lower volume.

Share volume is irrelevant ... this meant value $$$ - I'm looking for the big money flows so always calculate VOLUME * CLOSE


4) Staged Entry --- Buy 1/3 before the breakout, 1/3 next open and 1/3 within a few days.

Based on this approach, am I right in assuming that you are trading during the day? Or are you placing buy orders in advance with your broker?

Right at EOD only - don't use a broker - straight through software, although I need to take a few bites sometimes to get the position I want

5) You mentioned in a previous post that you use Stochastics, and MACD for confirmation.

Are these indicators always considered, as I noticed that a lot of the charts posted do not include all these indicators.

No - prefer a chart with as little info on it as possible. I do use the MACD to stay in a position (time value of money again) but never to enter, or exit if the price and volume action dictates

6) Being a discretionary approach, have you been able to carry out any form of Back-Testing to confirm the "hit / win" rate with this break-out approach, or are your stats based on actual trades?

Have a look at this post. The last 10 positions I published on this forum are doing OK. 8 out of 10 now in profit and still running - losses must be cut to stay in the game and MM turns 8 of of 10 into 200%+ pa or results in blood on the floor

Finally, you mentioned that the only MS exploration you use is to find Great White's with increased volume. With this scan, wouldn't you be missing the initial break-out??

Yes ... no great shakes, I don't need to hit every stock that moves ... just the ones that will return me 100% + pa. Missing the actual day / week is OK just buy on the open the next day / week. Please remember its MM and position sizing that run up the capital not the win/loss ratios

Out of interest, have you considered scanning for price ranges? I am running a couple in my software program that looks for tight ranges (2% & 3% Price range).

Yes ... at the EOTD all I need to is actually LOOK at the charts/markets I'm interested in once or twice a month and that's all the scanning I really need. Don't discount the posters on this forum either ... SLA is a classic I remember pacer loved it ... I looked at it and also ticked the TA boxes for me ... stated it was a buy and its now up a couple of 100%. There are plenty of posters here that really do know what they are doing ...

Apologies once again for the long email and thanks in advance for any insight you can offer.......

Pleasure there is enough $$$ in the ASX to give those that do the work all the cash they will ever need


All the best,

Chorlton

PS. Keep up the great posts !!!
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Good last post Chorlton/Dutchy.

Dutchy can you expand on how you stay in trades using the MACD please?
 
Hi Zulu

See the CMO chart ... the little blue lines at the bottom ... while they stay in positive territory I'd be looking to stay LONG ...

That been said if the stock reverses through a support point suddenly or drifts for too long I'd probably lighten up my postion ...

That been said ... if there was not a better opportunity elsewhere I'd be tempted to remain with the position ...

I am mostly driven by the price and volume action though .. that's what triggers my entries ... the MACD really just provides a warm fuzzy feeeling for remaining in a position ...

After 10 years I believe I've also developed an 'intuition'. I had AUZ way back when it was bouncing along in the ruff and doing nothing ... the moment I sold out of them I knew i was being short sighted ... I had quite a few of them too ...

Since then I've left 400%+ on the table in 9 months (I think its that much ... not in front of my system now) which would of been many multiples of $10K ...

So while my 'system' looks mechanical ... its not
 
Kennas,

As always, Thanks for the detailed reply..... :)

If you don't mind though, just a couple of further questions: ;)

1. "The LESS frequently I enter and exit positions the better - I'd rather the market do the work that jump in and out - still $$$ has a time value as well and not prepared to have my capital just sitting"

Out of interest, as you're trading CFD's, wouldn't exiting and re-entering a position save on potential interest being incurred?

2. With regard to the BackTesting question, I was just interested in whether you had carried out any form of backtesting / paper-trading before you began to trade this strategy with real $$$, way back when you started?


All the best,

Chorlton
 
Kennas,

As always, Thanks for the detailed reply..... :)

If you don't mind though, just a couple of further questions: ;)

1. "The LESS frequently I enter and exit positions the better - I'd rather the market do the work that jump in and out - still $$$ has a time value as well and not prepared to have my capital just sitting"

Out of interest, as you're trading CFD's, wouldn't exiting and re-entering a position save on potential interest being incurred?

2. With regard to the BackTesting question, I was just interested in whether you had carried out any form of backtesting / paper-trading before you began to trade this strategy with real $$$, way back when you started?


All the best,

Chorlton

The interest rate on a CFD is around 7 - 8%pa - without trying to be too cute I fully expect to make 30%+ pa on my positions .... so yes CFD's are probably too expensive to 'invest' in .... I do however hold positions for months and don't really have an issue ... also some CFD's offer 1% margin so the levergae verses cost of finance is quite good

I started with Safety in the Market and also picked up Bryce Gilmore's stuff in my early days. Never really paper traded though
 
without trying to be too cute I fully expect to make 30%+ pa on my positions

Thats not being cute..... Afterall, thats a nice return for a low-risk entry ;)

Reading through the previous posts, you mentioned:

"Another point that is usefull is to understand that software packages average the look of the chart"

Can you expand on what you mean by this? I'm assuming you're not talking about potential differences in "Data" between vendors....

Also, after a breakout, am I right in assuming that you would ignore the first pullback / correction, when placing a trailing stop? If so, do you check volume during the correction just as a confirmation??

Cheers...
 
Thats not being cute..... Afterall, thats a nice return for a low-risk entry ;)

Reading through the previous posts, you mentioned:

"Another point that is usefull is to understand that software packages average the look of the chart"

Can you expand on what you mean by this? I'm assuming you're not talking about potential differences in "Data" between vendors....

Also, after a breakout, am I right in assuming that you would ignore the first pullback / correction, when placing a trailing stop? If so, do you check volume during the correction just as a confirmation??

Cheers...

Charts in six months time look different from what they do today ... so in hindsight a breakout that occured 6 months ago on a chart is easy to spot ... no skill in that ... always load data as of the date of the breakout when reviewing so you get to know what a breakout looks like as is happening.

A decent breakout will have its first pull back well clear of my entry so I can afford to let it play out .... yes i watch volume and if the volume RISES on any pull back I would also be counted with the sellers .... as an aside ANY BLACK candle on heavier volume should be treated with a great deal of respect .... these tend to be more significant than similar WHITES ...
 
Hey Dutchy,

How often do you see the descending triangles breakout after:

Two descending triangles (your default):
Three descending triangles:
Four descending triangles:
Five descending triangles:

Percentage for each if you wouldn't mind.

Obviously you have calculated through experience that you need to have two failed attempts before the BIG WHITE typically kicks in with volume to signal your BUY, just wondering how often they continue before breakingout?

Also, of those that you have got wrong, what has been the trend 3, 6 & 12 months later. Have you had time to investigate this and do these typically continue to fall or do they rebound?
Or, have you seen them fall to a new support level then begin to form up at that level before breaking out?

JW
 
Hi Dutchy,

Out of interest, do you also consider the price range of the stocks which you choose to trade? ie. Is there a Minimum or Maximum price you would consider, or do you just look at the chart dynamics for making a decision?

Thanks... Oh... and apologies for the ongoing questions..... ;)

Kind Regards,

Chorlton
 
Hey Dutchy,

How often do you see the descending triangles breakout after:

Two descending triangles (your default):
Three descending triangles:
Four descending triangles:
Five descending triangles:

Percentage for each if you wouldn't mind.

Obviously you have calculated through experience that you need to have two failed attempts before the BIG WHITE typically kicks in with volume to signal your BUY, just wondering how often they continue before breakingout?

Also, of those that you have got wrong, what has been the trend 3, 6 & 12 months later. Have you had time to investigate this and do these typically continue to fall or do they rebound?
Or, have you seen them fall to a new support level then begin to form up at that level before breaking out?

JW

Hi JW ... any more that 2 - 3 failures and the breakout is unlikely to occur ... ie the stock keeps falling in price .... % of each .... too much like hard work, and for what purpose?

This second one is a killer ... yes I have been STOPPED out only to see the price rise again and accelerate away .... However I've also been STOPPED out and the price has dropped like a stone ... Now the VERY IMPORTAIN point is here is that ANY ONE of the stones had the potential to WIPE ME OUT COMPLETELY ... I'd no longer have any capital. NEVER get frustrated by the one that got away ... plenty more fish in the sea ... ALWAYS get scared of yourself if lamenting the STOP not triggered IMMEDIATELY
 
Hi Dutchy,

Out of interest, do you also consider the price range of the stocks which you choose to trade? ie. Is there a Minimum or Maximum price you would consider, or do you just look at the chart dynamics for making a decision?

Thanks... Oh... and apologies for the ongoing questions..... ;)

Kind Regards,

Chorlton

Hi Chorlton

What is significant about the price a stock trades at ... keep this one up and I'll learn ya how to answer your own question ...
 
PDN is in a descending triangle and looks like it will be there until late June. Unless a breakout occurs, current sentiment may not lend it self to that view, but definately some energy being built up in there.

Nice call by dline - PDN seems to have given the signal today 20 June, above 9.10 on vol, PDN 9.120 9.130 9.120 +0.310 8.950 9.150 8.950 1,995,817 time 1104am

Very interested in this technique and would like to have someone else confirm my initial impression.
 
Hi Dutchy.

CTS looks the goods to me.
Does it qualify?
If not -- id be keen to know why.

Thanks.
 
Hi nizar

Ok I've looked at the chart ... why am I interested? Is this a five star set up? or a chart that has a few interesting features ...

Always ensure all the bases are loaded ... no sense in going of half cocked
 
Hi jamm - if your still about have a close look at KIM .... another reasonable day this week with a white on a decent volume increase ....

If I was a betting man I'd offer even money that 70 might be as low as this one might go this cycle
 
Not really sure if this qualifies or not Dutchy, in any case it came up on a scan tonite and its one to watch as i feel it may be seeing some accumulation?

btw, thats a monthy chart.

Cheers,
 

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Hi CanOz

I'd be reasonably happy to call this accumulation too ... Some BIG BLACK weeks over the last couple of years with bigger volumes really casting a shadow ... more a case of the big holders now just about exhausted with the unloading of this stock ... not yet replaced by equally big BUYERS moving it into stronger hands ... Not a perfect set up for me as I'd need to see some BIG WHITE weeks on heavy volume picking this back up
 
hey Dutchy, are you happy with RMI?

I came across that stock a few weeks ago by playing around with Incredible charts, and noted a few days later your comments in the stock's thread - naturally I paid closer attention to it - bought in (paper trade) 4 days ago... and look what happened.
 
Hi tayser ... did I? can't findit now ... I don't hold this one .... all the same reasonable looking chart
 
Dutchy how's this one look?
 

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