Depression

[Sean K]

I have being seeing a councillor which helps a little but I may have to consider Medication seeing the doctor next monday just hoping to make it through till then.

Go now!

 

[derty]

Go now!

Yes, and make sure you get the GP to give you a referral to a psychologist, you get a Medicare rebate if referred by a GP. You get 6 visits with the ability to extend if the psych thinks it is necessary. The meds are good to stabilise the depression but seeing a psychologist will help you understand what is happening and will give you tools to help deal with it (the good ones can also assist with the medication, doctors can sometimes be a little off the mark with their psychological diagnosis)

 

[Solly]

Well I'm sorry to say the Black dog has really got me ATM .The purpose of this post is not to gain sympathy but to understand some aspects of depression that haven't being explored as yet in this thread.
I'm probably a little impaired in perspective ATM but it could be beneficial.
The main thing I'm struggling with is it depression if you have a life time of negative events which feel accumulative which bring you down or is it when it just gets you when you can't find a specific cause or are these in both instances depression .Is depression more related to the depths that you get to or the length of time your in it . What is depression and does it even matter to quantify it although probably helpful to determine if medication is needed.
I have being seeing a councillor which helps a little but I may have to consider Medication seeing the doctor next monday just hoping to make it through till then.

Mate, I'm not a Phycologist but never ever UNDERESTIMATE the power YOU hold with in yourself.

Take time to look around at the country you live in, the beauty, the riches and the wonder that is around you.

It's all up to you....choices. You CHOOSE the way you feel and react to things.

Nothing, ****ing nothing is ever as bad as it seems.

Cultivate and nourish an "anything is possible" mentality.

Never, never lose faith or question the power of your own abilities.

Maybe, listen to the words here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-yKhDd64s

 

[Max Smart]

Dear Bradk sorry to hear about your battle with depression but its my first day on site and Im a little confused.Thought I had joined a stock market forum that discusses stock/shares etc. Could someone explain....?

 

[marklar]

As someone who has also faced this insidious disease, I'd like to voice my appreciation for those of you that have shared with us in this thread.

About 6 years ago I expressed "a feeling of great sadness" to my wife, it took me another 2 years to hit rock-bottom, living from minute to minute and planning my suicide.

I ended up saving myself, I made a massive number of changes in my life including walking out on 10 years of marriage. I had support from colleagues and friends (yes, you do find out who your true friends really are) and I'm now doing a lot better.

For anyone that even thinks they're going through this, please, get help. Whatever it takes, do it!

 

[Julia]

Well I'm sorry to say the Black dog has really got me ATM .The purpose of this post is not to gain sympathy but to understand some aspects of depression that haven't being explored as yet in this thread.
I'm probably a little impaired in perspective ATM but it could be beneficial.
The main thing I'm struggling with is it depression if you have a life time of negative events which feel accumulative which bring you down or is it when it just gets you when you can't find a specific cause or are these in both instances depression .Is depression more related to the depths that you get to or the length of time your in it . What is depression and does it even matter to quantify it although probably helpful to determine if medication is needed.
I have being seeing a councillor which helps a little but I may have to consider Medication seeing the doctor next monday just hoping to make it through till then.

Waza, your questions are so reasonable, yet are often not addressed.

Re 'is it depression following a lifetime of negative events'?: this used to be called "reactive depression" and is what most of us would consider a reasonable response to continued trauma and/or sadness.

Imo it's an indication of bloody sanity: i.e. if you were happy and joyful after a lifetime of tough happenings, there'd be something wrong.

But some medical/psychological opinion has it that if you experience this sort of reactive (reasonable/responsive) depression for long enough, then the chemicals in your brain do actually change, and you will need anti depressants to effect a cure. I don't personally subscribe to this, but many do.

On the other hand, what was for many years called 'endogenous depression', or a depression with no obvious cause, just that debilitating and dreadful sense of utter blackness, no sense of optimism for the future, seems to almost always need the chemical assistance of antidepressants.

The usefulness of seeing a psychologist can be for that person to help you sort out what sort of depression you're experiencing, and therefore the most appropriate treatment.

Don't be afraid to contact, say, three psychologists (with the referral from your GP) asking for ten minutes of their time in order to establish whether you and he/she are comfortable with each other. You will not necessarily be comfortable with any psychologist. If any professional refuses to agree to this ten minutes, they wouldn't be empathic anyway.

Yes, and make sure you get the GP to give you a referral to a psychologist, you get a Medicare rebate if referred by a GP. You get 6 visits with the ability to extend if the psych thinks it is necessary. The meds are good to stabilise the depression but seeing a psychologist will help you understand what is happening and will give you tools to help deal with it (the good ones can also assist with the medication, doctors can sometimes be a little off the mark with their psychological diagnosis)

Agree absolutely. GP's are too quick to whack out the prescription for antidepressants without going into any background.

Mate, I'm not a Phycologist but never ever UNDERESTIMATE the power YOU hold with in yourself.

Take time to look around at the country you live in, the beauty, the riches and the wonder that is around you.

It's all up to you....choices. You CHOOSE the way you feel and react to things.

I really worry when I read something like this, however well intentioned it is.
Certainly, we'll all have times when we do need to underline what is positive in our lives, but if waza has a serious clinical level of depression, trying to think that all is just terrific, will probably actually be counter-productive.

I'd like instead that the decision were made by a competent psychologist.

Nothing, ****ing nothing is ever as bad as it seems.

Well, actually, sometimes it just is every bit as bad as it seems, even if just to the sufferer. When this is the case, someone telling you to just, um, look on the bright side is humiliating and can increase the sense of inadequacy.

Dear Bradk sorry to hear about your battle with depression but its my first day on site and Im a little confused.Thought I had joined a stock market forum that discusses stock/shares etc. Could someone explain....?

Well, now Max Smart: why don't you just check and you will see that you are in the "General Chat" forum, something you will have had to have made a specific effort to click into, as it's no longer on the Home Page.

Feel entirely free to ignore such threads that have no interest for you, rather than make unhelpful comments on a thread which is clearly titled Depression.

Waza, I do feel for you. Heed the advice from others about getting early help if you feel you need it. Always better to seek help early than wait until it's too late. Hope you'll keep us posted.
All the best, and thank you for the courageous post.
Julia

 

[sails]

...But some medical/psychological opinion has it that if you experience this sort of reactive (reasonable/responsive) depression for long enough, then the chemicals in your brain do actually change, and you will need anti depressants to effect a cure. I don't personally subscribe to this, but many do.

On the other hand, what was for many years called 'endogenous depression', or a depression with no obvious cause, just that debilitating and dreadful sense of utter blackness, no sense of optimism for the future, seems to almost always need the chemical assistance of antidepressants.

The usefulness of seeing a psychologist can be for that person to help you sort out what sort of depression you're experiencing, and therefore the most appropriate treatment.

I totally agree with this, Julia, and feel that antidepressants are dished out too frequently to those whose depression is due to negative circumstances. When the circumstances become more positive, there is a general lifting of the negativity and one can feel so much better. However, it is probably better to err on the side of caution especially if one feels they can't keep going.

I really worry when I read something like this, however well intentioned it is.
Certainly, we'll all have times when we do need to underline what is positive in our lives, but if waza has a serious clinical level of depression, trying to think that all is just terrific, will probably actually be counter-productive.

I'd like instead that the decision were made by a competent psychologist.


Well, actually, sometimes it just is every bit as bad as it seems, even if just to the sufferer. When this is the case, someone telling you to just, um, look on the bright side is humiliating and can increase the sense of inadequacy.

Yes, this is so true. When brain chemicals are not right, it seems that positivity will not help. I have been told on a number of occasions not to say, "just get over it" as it so often puts the sufferer into even deeper despair that they are not able to function normally. Rational thinking can become quite distorted, hence the need to obtain the necessary help quickly.

 

[Solly]

Waza, your questions are so reasonable, yet are often not addressed.

Re 'is it depression following a lifetime of negative events'?: this used to be called "reactive depression" and is what most of us would consider a reasonable response to continued trauma and/or sadness.

Imo it's an indication of bloody sanity: i.e. if you were happy and joyful after a lifetime of tough happenings, there'd be something wrong.

But some medical/psychological opinion has it that if you experience this sort of reactive (reasonable/responsive) depression for long enough, then the chemicals in your brain do actually change, and you will need anti depressants to effect a cure. I don't personally subscribe to this, but many do.

On the other hand, what was for many years called 'endogenous depression', or a depression with no obvious cause, just that debilitating and dreadful sense of utter blackness, no sense of optimism for the future, seems to almost always need the chemical assistance of antidepressants.

The usefulness of seeing a psychologist can be for that person to help you sort out what sort of depression you're experiencing, and therefore the most appropriate treatment.

Don't be afraid to contact, say, three psychologists (with the referral from your GP) asking for ten minutes of their time in order to establish whether you and he/she are comfortable with each other. You will not necessarily be comfortable with any psychologist. If any professional refuses to agree to this ten minutes, they wouldn't be empathic anyway.




Agree absolutely. GP's are too quick to whack out the prescription for antidepressants without going into any background.



I really worry when I read something like this, however well intentioned it is.
Certainly, we'll all have times when we do need to underline what is positive in our lives, but if waza has a serious clinical level of depression, trying to think that all is just terrific, will probably actually be counter-productive.

I'd like instead that the decision were made by a competent psychologist.


Well, actually, sometimes it just is every bit as bad as it seems, even if just to the sufferer. When this is the case, someone telling you to just, um, look on the bright side is humiliating and can increase the sense of inadequacy.



Well, now Max Smart: why don't you just check and you will see that you are in the "General Chat" forum, something you will have had to have made a specific effort to click into, as it's no longer on the Home Page.

Feel entirely free to ignore such threads that have no interest for you, rather than make unhelpful comments on a thread which is clearly titled Depression.

Waza, I do feel for you. Heed the advice from others about getting early help if you feel you need it. Always better to seek help early than wait until it's too late. Hope you'll keep us posted.
All the best, and thank you for the courageous post.
Julia

Waza, you are brave for posting, all power to you.

I hold a different position to Julia but I do recommend that you do seek professional advice as soon as possible. I have observed a remarkable recovery by someone who underwent Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Maybe this is an avenue you can seek advice about.

 

[waza1960]

Mate, I'm not a Phycologist but never ever UNDERESTIMATE the power YOU hold with in yourself.

Take time to look around at the country you live in, the beauty, the riches and the wonder that is around you.

It's all up to you....choices. You CHOOSE the way you feel and react to things.

Nothing, ****ing nothing is ever as bad as it seems.

Cultivate and nourish an "anything is possible" mentality.

Never, never lose faith or question the power of your own abilities.

Thanks for the thoughts but......................
I do realise some of the above i.e I have three wonderful children I'm extremely proud of but when you get depressed this stuff is on a different level and can be counter productive as in I shouldn't be depressed . BTW my children are the reason I'm still here.
If you are truely depressed you don't have a choice thats the point and thats the scary part.
I'm a confident person by nature and have being very successful in some aspects of my life and know that one day I could be an exceptional trader but again this is irrelevant to the way I feel now.
The councillor I'm seeing is a psychologist and I am comfortable talking to her so thats a start but apart from that I'm not sure if this is helping ATM.
Thanks so much for your post Julia which addresses my OP and makes sense of some of the stuff which I found somewhat confusing.
But this now opens another can of worms in that I have no doubt that I have the reactive depression which you have stated but I'm thinking that the below statement maybe true.

But some medical/psychological opinion has it that if you experience this sort of reactive (reasonable/responsive) depression for long enough, then the chemicals in your brain do actually change, and you will need anti depressants to effect a cure.

Also note that I don't believe in taking any medication except as a last resort.
The other issue is that I've being subjected to more regular negative events recently which are undermining my mental state.
Thanks for the goodwill posted here it really helps.

 

[Boggo]

Also note that I don't believe in taking any medication except as a last resort.

I used to have the same view waza, brought up on a farm, "get a good feed and a good sleep and you will be ok" type fix.
My wife would not be alive if it wasn't for constant drugs, while we (or you) may not like them you are better with them than without them especially if they are prescribed by a specialist in the area of the potential problem.
There are some pretty amazing people out there now specialising in every aspect of human problems, make full use of them.

The other issue is that I've being subjected to more regular negative events recently which are undermining my mental state.

That is just how things seem to work for some reason, there always is an additional obstacle.

I reckon that the fact you are willing to discuss it even on here with people you don't really know (but are very sympathetic) means you have got a grip on the problem, its just all about endurance from here.

 

[Julia]

Has anyone heard from waza?
Just wondering how he's doing.

 

[BradK]

Dear Bradk sorry to hear about your battle with depression but its my first day on site and Im a little confused.Thought I had joined a stock market forum that discusses stock/shares etc. Could someone explain....?

Lol... I'm all good now. Thanks Max Smart! This is the general discussion part of the forum. That was another time, another place for me. It feels so remote to me now... but, I am very very very aware that people suffer from this for many many years and struggle with it. That, fortunately has not been my story. Thanks to drugs, therapy, support and a willingness to discuss things with my mates.

Bit of concern about Waza - I have just revisited this thread. Have been marking the HSC in Sydney and have been pulling massive hours in the last 3 weeks, so I haven't been around since Waza appeared on this thread.

Waza - go get some help buddy. No shame in asking. As someone said quite accurately, 'Nothing, f^%*$ing nothing, is ever as bad as it seems'

Brad

 

[waza1960]

Thanks for all the support this forum is one of a few avenues that I have to express myself.
I have being on medication now for the last couple of weeks and I feel calm and not anxious which is such a relief as I have not had this feeling for so long.
I am continuing to see the psychologist and the doctor they are both showing concern for my mental state.
I feel if I can get past the next couple of months I'll be ok.
The doctor said that they don't categorize depression as reactive anymore but as minor or major.
Good to hear your going well Brad gives me some hope.
I can see now one of the problems was that I had limited support which made things worse.
I'm just taking one day at a time ATM. thanks

 

[sails]

So good to hear things are improving, Waza...
I agree that it is a one day at a time thing and support is extremely important.

 

[burglar]

My sympathy goes to all sufferers !

My GP wanted me on medication, my vocational case manager too.
But my psychologist warned against it.

I chose against medication. And here is my reason:
I did not want to become someone else, I wanted to be myself !
The irony ... I became someone else, ... anyways !

burglar

 

[motorway]

For what its worth.. ( and hope the info is helpful )
And just Search Vit D and Depression for more info if it interests you..

But easy to see a vicious cycle here imo.
A Downward spiral of health , depression and Vit D status
compounding .. both Body and Mind...

The effect of sunlight on mood itself can not be underestimated

Depression is likely to occur more often in people who get less vitamin D, a recent report has found.
Other studies have found that vitamin D deficiencies have been linked to an increase in depression. However, researchers at Georgia State University provided more-conclusive evidence to support the vitamin D-depression link in research published earlier this month.

The study found that those with a significant deficiency in the vitamin had an 85 percent chance of being depressed.
Researchers evaluated nearly 8,000 non-institutionalized people in the United States aged 15 to 39 to come up with their findings.

A LACK of vitamin D has long been linked to depression, but researchers believe it may contribute to psychiatric conditions such as personality disorders and post-traumatic stress disorder.

A study of more than 50 patients at a private psychiatric clinic in Geelong found that almost 60 per cent were suffering a severe vitamin D deficiency and 11 per cent were moderately deficient, prompting researchers to question whether vitamin D supplements could reduce mental illness across the board.

Evidence exists that major depression is associated with low vitamin D levels and that depression has increased in the last century as vitamin D levels have surely fallen. Evidence exists that depression is associated with heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer and low bone mineral density, all illnesses thought to be caused, in part, by vitamin D deficiency. Finally, vitamin D has profound effects on the brain including the neurotransmitters involved in major depression. Therefore, vitamin D may help major depression.

It is too early to say. To know for sure, patients with severe major depression would have to have baseline 25(OH)D blood levels, be treated with doses of vitamin D adequate to raise their levels to at least 35 ng/mL for several months and be compared to a normal control group treated with placebo.

No one has ever published such a study.However, it is not to early to heed the following advice: If you suffer from depression, get your 25(OH)D level checked and, if it is lower than 35 ng/mL (87 nM/L), you are vitamin D deficient and should begin treatment. If you are not depressed, get your 25(OH)D level checked anyway. If it is lower than 35 ng/mL (87 nM/L), you are vitamin D deficient and should begin treatment.

DOES VITAMIN D AFFECT THE BRAIN?

Vitamin D rapidly increases the in-vitro genetic expression of tyrosine hydroxylase (the rate-limiting enzyme for the catecholamine biosynthesis) by threefold. Summer sunlight increases brain serotonin levels twice as much as winter sunlight, a finding compatible with both bright light in the visible spectrum and vitamin D affecting mood.

Vitamin D is widely involved in brain function with nuclear receptors for vitamin D localized in neurons and glial cells. Genes encoding the enzymes involved in the metabolism of vitamin D are expressed in brain cells.

The reported biological effects of vitamin D in the nervous system include the biosynthesis of neurotrophic factors, inhibition of the synthesis of inducible nitric oxide synthase and increased glutathione levels, suggesting a role for the hormone in brain detoxification pathways.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

Glutathione connection I find especially interesting
Vitamin D upregulates Glutathione..

When you think about it
The Elderly , The Frail , The Ill as well as the Depressed
can easily fall into a Deficient Vitamin D spiral

So the question is I think

Is there any good reason to be Vitamin D deficient ?

People are going to have to answer that for themselves !

Parkinson's , Alzheimer , Autism & Schizophrenia are also being connected to low D.

D is the KEY etc

Also for what it is worth I have found significant mood enhancement effects personally.

Lambert, et al, drew arterial and venous blood samples form 101 healthy Australian men over a one-year period and found strong correlations between ambient sunlight and production of serotonin in the brain.

Motorway

 

[motorway]

Link to the Study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21067618

Motorway

Int Arch Med. 2010 Nov 11;3:29.

Serum vitamin D concentrations are related to depression in young adult US population: the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.
Ganji V, Milone C, Cody MM, McCarty F, Wang YT.

Division of Nutrition, School of Health Professions, College of Health and Human Sciences, Georgia State University, 140 Decatur Street, Atlanta, GA 30302, USA. vganji@gsu.edu.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Vitamin D receptors have been mapped throughout the brain suggesting a role for vitamin D in psychosomatic disorders. Results from previous epidemiological studies on relation between vitamin D status and depression are equivocal. Also, limited information is available relating vitamin D status with depression in young adult US population.

METHODS: Data from the third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey were used to assess association between serum vitamin D and depression in 7970 non-institutionalized US residents, aged 15-39 y. Assessment of depression was done using the Diagnostic Interview Schedule developed by the National Institute of Mental Health.

After accounting for several confounding variables in multivariate logistic regression analysis, we estimated odds ratios (OR) for having depression in vitamin D deficient persons in comparison to vitamin D sufficient persons.

RESULTS: Women, non-Hispanic blacks, persons living below poverty, persons who did not consume supplements, persons living in South and West regions and in urban areas, persons with higher BMI, and persons with current depression had higher prevalence of vitamin D deficiency compared to their counterparts. OR for having current depressive episodes in persons with serum vitamin D ≤ 50 nmol/L is significantly higher relative to those with serum vitamin D ≥ 75 nmol/L (OR = 1.85; P = 0.021).

CONCLUSIONS: In this large population based study, likelihood of having depression in persons with vitamin D deficiency is significantly higher compared to those with vitamin D sufficiency.

Early diagnosis and intervention are paramount because coexistence of vitamin D deficiency and depression has serious negative consequences on health.

 

[noco]

At some stage in life, very few of us escape depression whether it is caused loss of a family member, employer bullying or a bad marriage and I can relate from experience.

Having experienced 13 years of a nagging dominate wife, my desperation almost led to disaster. I was a nervous wreck, unable to talk to people without breaking down in tears and taking to alcohol for solace. So I decided, after talking to a psycho-analyst, it would be better for my two children to have at least one parent to take care of them in lieu of one parent in jail and the other 6 feet under. This specialist explained to me if my nerves "cracked', I would loose all control of my brain and have no idea what was happening until it was too late. I am normally a placid and easy going person but depression can convert one into a monster if allowed to continue..

I broke from the marriage and took up Yoga and Meditation which I practised for 18 years. It is a great way to release the built up tentions and would recommend to anyone in the same circumstances.

 

[motorway]

At some stage in life, very few of us escape depression whether it is caused loss of a family member, employer bullying or a bad marriage and I can relate from experience.

Having experienced 13 years of a nagging dominate wife, my desperation almost led to disaster. I was a nervous wreck, unable to talk to people without breaking down in tears and taking to alcohol for solace. So I decided, after talking to a psycho-analyst, it would be better for my two children to have at least one parent to take care of them in lieu of one parent in jail and the other 6 feet under. This specialist explained to me if my nerves "cracked', I would loose all control of my brain and have no idea what was happening until it was too late. I am normally a placid and easy going person but depression can convert one into a monster if allowed to continue..

I broke from the marriage and took up Yoga and Meditation which I practised for 18 years. It is a great way to release the built up tentions and would recommend to anyone in the same circumstances.

Hi noco.. This links in with my post on D ( And we have all known or Know of people where Depression wrecked lives... Certainly I know and have known )

Mediatation is involved with these fight or fight hormones..

We live in a world were this can just spin out of control.
A modern world.. Where stress can become chronic..

Catecholamines are hormones produced by the adrenal glands, which are found on top of the kidneys. They are released into the blood during times of physical or emotional stress. The major catecholamines are dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine (which used to be called adrenalin).

Catecholamines are sympathomimetic[1] "fight-or-flight" hormones released by the adrenal glands in response to stress.[2] They are part of the sympathetic nervous system.

I drew attention to Glutathione which is the brain's master antioxidant.

But this is very pertinent to Mental Health..

Vitamin D rapidly increases the in-vitro genetic expression of tyrosine hydroxylase (the rate-limiting enzyme for the catecholamine biosynthesis) by threefold.

This the rate limiting enzyme for the fight or fight hormones..


It is what is supposed to stop this system spinning out of control and becoming chronic..


Motorway

 

[Julia]

Mediatation is involved with these fight or fight hormones..

Don't you mean 'fight or flight'?

You make the same mistake further down and don't usually make any typos, Motorway.

Just wondering if you're not actually familiar with the 'fight or flight mechanism.