Day traders ONLY - a continuing study

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Yogi

There is only really one way to learn daytrading, and that is to actually do it live. There is the CHAT facility and this is the area that could be best utilized for this kind of learning experience.

In essence, you would need 1 trader per day [can be a different trader/style each day] to be the facilitator of the days trading.

They then trade live, and others can follow, ask questions as the day progresses. Following day, someone else becomes the "trader".

What will become very apparent, very quickly, is no one form of analysis has any greater predictive power than another, but that trade DISCIPLINE is KING.

jog on
d998

I missed this post. Duc you do come up with some good posts at times.

 

[ducati916]

Maybe most make it harder than it could be.

I guess it depends on how MUCH one is happy with earning. If it is $100 per day then it will be a lot easier than if one is trying to get $10,000 per day - just to throw some perspective in.

'Most' will focus on the analysis [technical, gann, etc] whereas in daytrading, money management is king.

Assuming that your first nine trades are all losses, and you are down your $900........would you take trade ten? The answer is that you must, and 11,12, etc. But this is harder than it sounds, you will be pretty beat up psychologically by this stage, and self-belief will be a distant memory. Discipline is the way forward, but very few can actually execute.

Daytrading is a numbers game, same as say a mechanical system, the market is fractal, therefore, if you can win longer term with say breakouts, you can win shorter term.....................however, you must compress your 100 trades over the space of a day or two, and if scalping, you can go to thousands of trades a day.

For non-institutional or shop traders, brokerage becomes a factor.
The way around brokerage is trading size. [limits the total # trades/day] Now, rather than virtually scalping every trade, you look for slightly larger moves [1% to 1.5%]

Trading size magnifies the psychological pressure significantly, and everyone is different. The rule of thumb however still is worth thinking about, and that is; if you are in psychological cruise mode on position size, you won't earn enough to pay the mortgage.


In regards to daytraders stepping up to lead a live trading experience, I count zero so far. Herein lies a truism, many talk about daytading profitably, few walk daytrading profitably.

I'll trade the US live.
I'm up at 0300am NZ time for a 0330am US Market open.
The first half hour I'll detail the strategy, place positions, and manage the trades through the day. I haven't daytraded for almost 2yrs, so it might be an unmitigated disaster.......bloodbath, but that will serve if nothing else as a reality check.

jog on
d998

 

[coyotte]

Maybe most make it harder than it could be.

I guess it depends on how MUCH one is happy with earning. If it is $100 per day then it will be a lot easier than if one is trying to get $10,000 per day - just to throw some perspective in.

imho don't look @ daily profit/loss ---- that's wage mentality

look @ a 20 day trading period or monthly cycle

then that cycle over a financial year

amazing how the cycles will repeat year after year


Ducati

I find posting LIVE trades one of the most distracting thing I've encounted.

Good Luck


Cheers

 

[ducati916]

coyotte

Ducati

I find posting LIVE trades one of the most distracting things I've encounted
Good Luck
Cheers

Of course, who needs the added stress, but therein always lays the excuse as to why it is not actually implemented by the *successful* daytraders. Posting hindsight trades, of daytrading is absolutely a waste of time. Everyone in hindsight can see the optimal entry & exit points.

Daytrading is not about analysis, it is about making a fast decision, under extreme pressure, and managing that decision tick by tick. All the blather about analysis is just so much nonsense.

Daytrading is about PRESSURE.
Daytrading live, simply separates the fantasy artists from grim reality, that this is bloody hard, and most will be handed their lunch.

jog on
d998

 

[coyotte]

Daytrading is not about analysis, it is about making a fast decision, under extreme pressure, and managing that decision tick by tick. All the blather about analysis is just so much nonsense."

A ** Gem **

U got to make up your mind either your an Analyst or a Trader -- in all forms of trading.

or put another way -- the mechanic or driver of a race car.


Cheers

 

[constable]

Ok here's a trade ive taken today based on auz previous support at 8 cents.
Bought 200000 units at the close of 8.1 cents . Was prepared to pay 8.2.
Why did i buy ?
Because auz has started to stray outside its upwards trend.
So i figure it has to either pull back into line or continue going down.
8 cents has been a solid support so im of the belief it wont get thru it.

Also there are drill results due giving the stock some expectation.
Also i would think there should be some retracement as it was trading well into 9 cents just over a week ago.
My objective is to make 3 to 5 ticks on this stock and if it hits 8 cents with any speed im out. Time frame is 2 - 3 days.

out at .082 no volume happening and looking very stagnant.

 

[mrWoodo]

Pretty broad question, but how many trades/week would a 'regular' day trader (ie, one that does it for a living) place ? If we're talking 25+, I guess the time spent preparing tax returns, keeping track of trades, etc would be considerable.

 

[yogi-in-oz]

Daytrading is not about analysis, it is about making a fast decision, under extreme pressure, and managing that decision tick by tick. All the blather about analysis is just so much nonsense.

Daytrading is about PRESSURE.
Daytrading live, simply separates the fantasy artists from grim reality, that this is bloody hard, and most will be handed their lunch.

jog on
d998

Hi duc,

Second paragraph of your statement above is quite true
and the key to each trade is market timing ... if we have
our timing and direction right, we win ..... yes??

However by dismissing all analysis on individual markets
as nonsense, means you are missing out on some handy
timing tools ... truly an asset for daytraders.

By using such tools, as daytraders, we can be selective
about the markets we are trading ... meaning, we will NOT
be trading EVERY day and the markets we do trade, will
likely be those, with which we are quite familiar.

Later, if anybody is interested, we can show how such
analysis can help us to PLAN our daytrading, even
BEFORE the market opens !~!

Another advantage of such analysis is the reduction of
STRESS levels, due to trading at specific times and NOT
having to be glued to the screen for the whole trading day.

have a great day

yogi

 

[ducati916]

Yogi

However by dismissing all analysis on individual markets
as nonsense, means you are missing out on some handy
timing tools ... truly an asset for daytraders.

By using such tools, as daytraders, we can be selective
about the markets we are trading ... meaning, we will NOT
be trading EVERY day and the markets we do trade, will
likely be those, with which we are quite familiar.

I am not a subscriber to the analysis provides a positive expectancy school. Not for daytrades anyway. Swing trading is an alternative style, but has some very real differences to daytrading.

However preparation, a subtle difference is vital.
Preparation really means that in the heat of the market, you can act, rather than think. Your thinking, has already been completed prior to market open, preferably the previous evening.

Preparation will connote analysis to some, however, all analysis will over time and a high enough number of trades crunch out to 50/50. Your profit is in cutting the losses very quickly, and hanging on for as long as possible to your winners.

Therefore when I dismiss analysis, I dismiss analysis as a statistical probability that somehow translates into profits. Preparation however will equate into profit, as preparation = discipline = tight money management = profits.

jog on
d998

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

imho don't look @ daily profit/loss ---- that's wage mentality

look @ a 20 day trading period or monthly cycle

then that cycle over a financial year

amazing how the cycles will repeat year after year

So just to set the mood of this thread are comments for the sake of clarity and to highlight a point allowed without the game of one upmanship?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

'Most' will focus on the analysis [technical, gann, etc] whereas in daytrading, money management is king.

Assuming that your first nine trades are all losses, and you are down your $900........would you take trade ten? The answer is that you must, and 11,12, etc. But this is harder than it sounds, you will be pretty beat up psychologically by this stage, and self-belief will be a distant memory. Discipline is the way forward, but very few can actually execute.

Daytrading is a numbers game, same as say a mechanical system, the market is fractal, therefore, if you can win longer term with say breakouts, you can win shorter term.....................however, you must compress your 100 trades over the space of a day or two, and if scalping, you can go to thousands of trades a day.

For non-institutional or shop traders, brokerage becomes a factor.
The way around brokerage is trading size. [limits the total # trades/day] Now, rather than virtually scalping every trade, you look for slightly larger moves [1% to 1.5%]

Trading size magnifies the psychological pressure significantly, and everyone is different. The rule of thumb however still is worth thinking about, and that is; if you are in psychological cruise mode on position size, you won't earn enough to pay the mortgage.


In regards to daytraders stepping up to lead a live trading experience, I count zero so far. Herein lies a truism, many talk about daytading profitably, few walk daytrading profitably.

I'll trade the US live.
I'm up at 0300am NZ time for a 0330am US Market open.
The first half hour I'll detail the strategy, place positions, and manage the trades through the day. I haven't daytraded for almost 2yrs, so it might be an unmitigated disaster.......bloodbath, but that will serve if nothing else as a reality check.

jog on
d998

Good post Duc.

Ok so Duc is our first trader. Good

 

[SevenFX]

Good post Duc.

Ok so Duc is our first trader. Good

How about we see some good posts from you Snake...

Haven't seen any yet, but I'm sure when they come, they will be Great.

Thanks
SevenFX

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

How about we see some good posts from you Snake...

Haven't seen any yet, but I'm sure when they come, they will be ......

Thanks
SevenFX

Hi Techman,

I am not a day-trader. I trade swings or positions. I do the odd day trade.

I am thinking of participating in this exercise though. I could be beheaded by the market or by my own ineptness.
Snake

 

[ducati916]

The stock will be........BIDU, the day, by popular demand is?

jog on
d998

 

[SevenFX]

I am thinking of participating in this exercise though. I could be beheaded by the market or by my own ineptness. Snake

Ahhh....Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

I look forward to your post, Snake.

Duc... Is that baidu.com [bidu_us]

 

[ducati916]

Tek

Indeed it is..........a daytrading monster!

jog on
d998

 

[coyotte]

So just to set the mood of this thread are comments for the sake of clarity and to highlight a point allowed without the game of one upmanship?

WOW! sensitive aren't we? --- just the part of the basic mind set of any business.



Cheers

 

[wayneL]

Tek

Indeed it is..........a daytrading monster!

jog on
d998

I'll find some more fire breathing dragons and post them up for interest.

FWIW - another daytraders blog => http://estocastica.blogspot.com

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

WOW! sensitive aren't we? --- just the part of the basic mind set of any business.



Cheers

One up again. Go fo it!

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Ahhh....Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

I look forward to your post, Snake.

Duc... Is that baidu.com [bidu_us]

Hi Teckmann,
I will refrain from doing it because the creator of the thread has gone. I genuinely wanted to give something.
However, I will at some stage PM you and some others with some stuff.
Regards
Snake