David Hicks protests
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chops_a_must
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Re: Who cares .
It goes against everything our "free" society is based on.
It goes against everything our "free" society is based on.
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BobbyBobby said:
Could be difficult if he never actually did anything apart from "training".
A bit like asking our soldiers to recant for following orders, yet never even fired a shot in anger.
The issue however is one of denial of rights.
No western country, apart from Australia, has allowed the US to try those that ended up at Guantanamo Bay.
If Hicks' crime needs to be tried, the weight of evidence should allow a just and fair trial in Australia.
Surely that's not too big an ask after 5 years of confinement.
Julia
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Bob,
Hicks is undeniably foolish, to say the least. That said, he should not be incarcerated without charge for five years.
I do think his father has behaved with immense dignity throughout what must be a dreadful ordeal for him. He has been constant, but has refrained from hysteria. Compare his behaviour with that of the Corby Clan.
Julia
Hicks is undeniably foolish, to say the least. That said, he should not be incarcerated without charge for five years.
I do think his father has behaved with immense dignity throughout what must be a dreadful ordeal for him. He has been constant, but has refrained from hysteria. Compare his behaviour with that of the Corby Clan.
Julia
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Here's a previous post on "corruption in Australia" thread - it includes a lead to an interview with Major Mori on Enough Rope.2020hindsight said:
As above, the man's giving up his career with the military to defend David Hicks. He deserves a lot of acculades does Maj Mori.
As Wayne pointed out, other defence lawyers who defended for instance bin L 's driver, suddenly found their services with the military " no longer wanted"- and/or have "retured".
chops_a_must
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Re: Who cares .
The presumption of innocence until proof of guilt.
And another thing, any "crime" he may or may not have committed would have been done, or not done, in a country seperate from which he is being charged in. You can't steal someone from another country, and then try them on charges that aren't applicable to the country they were actually in.
And for christ's sake, he's an Australian citizen. If he actually has done anything wrong, he should be able to be tried here.
Well, you just can't lock people up without an actual charge being made against them.Bobby said:
The presumption of innocence until proof of guilt.
And another thing, any "crime" he may or may not have committed would have been done, or not done, in a country seperate from which he is being charged in. You can't steal someone from another country, and then try them on charges that aren't applicable to the country they were actually in.
And for christ's sake, he's an Australian citizen. If he actually has done anything wrong, he should be able to be tried here.
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Bobby said:
I have seen very little of Hicks regarding his terrorist links with the exception of a few shots of him holding a gun somwhere, supposed links of him to AQ training camps and the typical yada statements form US on his guilt by association etc.
I have yet to see anything that connects Hicks to an actual deed that links him to a terrorist act, just the potential that he could, ie hang with monkeys>must be a monkey. Wheres the reasonable doubt!. Since 9/11 and especially the histeria straight after, the US were quick to jump to the hang with monkeys>must be a monkey, typical of the hang with a red>must be a red, in the McCarthy era.
Regardless of all, Hicks was snatched from a foreign country benign to the US, transported to GB, which is incidently benign to the US and incarcerated in a process that seems benign to the US (or maybe not in Bush's Administration). What a Joke
As an Australian, I have always been and will continue to be totally disgusted at the Australian powers to be: lack of action, response, commitment and diligence they have shown to David and the US as his kidnappers/holders, without the due legal process that any Australian Citizen should be ensured/demanded from a foreign captor, by the Australian Government.
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I don't have an opinion on Mr Hicks. His father seems to be a good sort of a bloke and has conducted himself well.
Ideological dispositions of the malignant and benign kinds will do strange things to people -make of that what you like.
Ideological dispositions of the malignant and benign kinds will do strange things to people -make of that what you like.
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Kauri
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Were he a pom , he'd be home by now.
I seem to recall that his efforts to go down even this route have been actively frustrated by experts at the game of diverting the course of justice - rewriting the rulebook every step ofthe way.
I understand that the US , UK and AUS contributions to Iraq are 100:5:1.
UK at least maintains some self respect, getting their Guantanamo prisoners home.
and I guess we are so insignificant we just tag along saying "yes sir yessir 3 bags full sir."
Funny, I thought we inherited the British legal system and sense of fair play / justice etc?
Or is it that we've gone in favour of rewriting the rulebook with each step (solitary confinement while we work out EXACTLY the type of military or civil judge that can hear this - only taken us 5 years so far !)
Better still (and very original), Canberra seems to be saying "don't even admit to having a rulebook on such matters"
I seem to recall that his efforts to go down even this route have been actively frustrated by experts at the game of diverting the course of justice - rewriting the rulebook every step ofthe way.
I understand that the US , UK and AUS contributions to Iraq are 100:5:1.
UK at least maintains some self respect, getting their Guantanamo prisoners home.
and I guess we are so insignificant we just tag along saying "yes sir yessir 3 bags full sir."
Funny, I thought we inherited the British legal system and sense of fair play / justice etc?
Or is it that we've gone in favour of rewriting the rulebook with each step (solitary confinement while we work out EXACTLY the type of military or civil judge that can hear this - only taken us 5 years so far !)
Better still (and very original), Canberra seems to be saying "don't even admit to having a rulebook on such matters"
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Knobby22
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Don't worry.
Mr Howard will work something out with Bush just before the next election justifying his ghastly actions on this case.
Baa
Mr Howard will work something out with Bush just before the next election justifying his ghastly actions on this case.
Baa
Julia,Julia said:
You're right again. Hicks was unwise to have got involved in the first place. However, he is entitled to fair justice and five years in incarceration is a ridiculously long time. He should either be charged with unyet known offences or released immediately. On this issue, the Howard Government (and the US) has indeed been slack. I also feel sorry for Hick's family.
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This bloke seems to be convinced that our laws on terror are little more than kneejerk reactions designed to placade the public.
For the paper you'll have to read the attached pdf file.
towards the end he says "If we strive for the illusory goal of full protection from terrporism, we risk doing even greater damage to our society and its freedoms and values."
BTW he doesnt mention Hicks here, but similar principles involved.
Attachments
I forgot to add that I attended the "Free David Hicks" Protest in Melbourne yesterday. About 5,000 people joined me in the heat and smoke, a good turnout considering the weather. It was a very peaceful protest. There are many other small "l" liberal types out there like myself, "soft" Howard voters, starting to take a stand on this issue. I notice that "The Age" here in Melbourne is leading the charge.2020hindsight said:
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well done greggy
I meantto add under George Williams article...
BTW also - I believe this article also appeared in THE AGE recently.
PS I notice that Ruddock is promising he'll at least be charged with something "next year" lol - joke joyce. what a setup that bloke has found himself in. Talk about a fallguy for "collective inaction" .
I meantto add under George Williams article...
BTW also - I believe this article also appeared in THE AGE recently.
PS I notice that Ruddock is promising he'll at least be charged with something "next year" lol - joke joyce. what a setup that bloke has found himself in. Talk about a fallguy for "collective inaction" .
