Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

If we apply the "reasonable person test" to these facts, the answer to the basic question of this thread whether Daniel Kertcher is a "scam" is clear: Daniel Kertcher is not a scam. Because if he were a scam, he would have been closed down and sent to jail by ASIC a long time ago.

So are you implying that no scams exist in general because they are all caught by the authorities?

 

[ftw129]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

The gist of all this seems to be that most of you are accusing Daniel Kertcher of misrepresentation. Some of you are just implying it, but some of you have used the actual word.

Now, under Australian Law, misrepresentation is a serious offence, and particularly so in the financial world.

I understand that some of you don't think much of ASIC, but that's all we've got. There is no more powerful authority than that at this time in Australia.

For all its shortcomings (being underfunded and understaffed), ASIC has successfully prosecuted and sent to jail a number of persons. The charges were "obtaining financial advantage by deception" and "misrepresentation" (here is that word again).

I know for a fact that ASIC monitors Daniel and his company very closely. They send officials to his seminars and workshops and are always on the lookout for any breaches that could lead to a suspension of his Australian Financial Services Licence. Since his AFSL has never been pulled, ASIC must be happy with his conduct.

Notwithstanding your comments about "high pressure marketing", nobody is forced to attend his courses. I have spoken to many people who have attended, and not one of them has mentioned that they were there against their will.

Pure Silk has proved that even with the occasional losing month, Daniel's system can still show a very good overall return. The reason that I have never had a losing month is because I am more conservative. Unless a trade ticks all the boxes, I won't even enter it. That is why my returns are lower (at 30 % p.a.) than Pure Silk's, but I can live with that. However, with the additional knowledge I have gained from those books recommended by wayneL, I expect to make higher returns in 2014.

If we apply the "reasonable person test" to these facts, the answer to the basic question of this thread whether Daniel Kertcher is a "scam" is clear: Daniel Kertcher is not a scam. Because if he were a scam, he would have been closed down and sent to jail by ASIC a long time ago.

Agreed.

The title of this thread is no longer relevant and hasn't been for quite some time.

It's obvious that Daniel Kertcher is not a scam. That doesn't even really make any sense.

Viable/profitable over the long term and offering strategies to suit all market conditions?

Time will tell.

Hopefully you guys (DK's members) don't get too discouraged and keep posting your trades and results.

It's been really interesting to hear the experienced members of ASF really drill down into the mechanics and real risks of some of the trades already posted. Please keep doing so.

Good luck in 2014 and keep posting!

 

[mazzatelli]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Both the latest fund and one of its members with verified results have < 1 year track record. Also I can't find any results for Platinum Pursuits Growth Hedge Fund anymore.

Another way to view this is, would you trust a trader working at an IB (let's say they work on the prop desk) with only 6 months experience, with your money?

 

[sails]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Both the latest fund and one of its members with verified results have < 1 year track record. Also I can't find any results for Platinum Pursuits Growth Hedge Fund anymore.

Another way to view this is, would you trust a trader working at an IB (let's say they work on the prop desk) with only 6 months experience, with your money?

Well said, Mazza.

If people are going to throw their money at anything like this, then sensible money management should be used and only risk a percentage of their money given there are no guarantees in trading. They need to fully understand the risk they are taking on.

There is a thread here on Storm Financial which shows how much people can be hurt when they take on too much risk and things don't go according to plan.

Just my

PS - your inbox is full...lol

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I know for a fact that ASIC monitors Daniel and his company very closely. They send officials to his seminars and workshops and are always on the lookout for any breaches that could lead to a suspension of his Australian Financial Services Licence.

1/ If ASIC is so underfunded, why do you think hey monitor DK so closely?

2/ How is it that you "know for a fact" that DK is monitored so closely?

Since his AFSL has never been pulled, ASIC must be happy with his conduct.

Not having the legal justification for pulling his license is not necessarilycongruous with being happy with his conduct, as the "fact" of him being closely monitored indicates.

It would indicated to me they have concerns, as most here do.

 

[excellent]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Notwithstanding your comments about "high pressure marketing", nobody is forced to attend his courses. I have spoken to many people who have attended, and not one of them has mentioned that they were there against their will.

lmao obviously not against their will as this would be hostage taking.



alvin 2 simple questions since you have a habit of avoiding..
- who invited you to this forum to share your positive experiences with daniel kertcher & trading pursuits?
- since you are obviously familiar with trading pursuits, is the director of spectrum live also the director of trading pursuits?

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So are you implying that no scams exist in general because they are all caught by the authorities?

Why do I sometimes get the feeling I am talking to 5 year old kindergarten kids?

I am implying no such thing. Scams do still exist, but they are all exposed eventually. If not by ASIC, then by our friends in the media.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Both the latest fund and one of its members with verified results have < 1 year track record. Also I can't find any results for Platinum Pursuits Growth Hedge Fund anymore.

Another way to view this is, would you trust a trader working at an IB (let's say they work on the prop desk) with only 6 months experience, with your money?

The reason there is less than one year's results available is the simple fact that the fund has only been running since April. After 6 months it showed a return at the rate of 15 % p.a.

Daniel Kertcher has a bit more than 6 months experience at the prop desk. He has been trading for about 15 years. One of his chief traders has 30 years experience and used to be Head of Trading in of of Australia's largest banks.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

1/ If ASIC is so underfunded, why do you think hey monitor DK so closely?

2/ How is it that you "know for a fact" that DK is monitored so closely?



Not having the legal justification for pulling his license is not necessarilycongruous with being happy with his conduct, as the "fact" of him being closely monitored indicates.

It would indicated to me they have concerns, as most here do.

ASIC monitors Daniel (and all so-called "wealth educators") because that is what they do. It is their job.

I know a fair bit about the workings of ASIC because I was once called as a material witness by ASIC in a fraud case they were prosecuting. For several months I worked closely with ASIC officers. My testimony and that of others led to a conviction and a five year jail sentence for the perpetrator.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

lmao obviously not against their will as this would be hostage taking.



alvin 2 simple questions since you have a habit of avoiding..
- who invited you to this forum to share your positive experiences with daniel kertcher & trading pursuits?
- since you are obviously familiar with trading pursuits, is the director of spectrum live also the director of trading pursuits?

I was invited to this forum by a good friend of mine. She thought I might learn something by coming here, and she was right.

I am familiar with trading pursuits, but I don't use spectrum live as my broker. It is quite possible that a director of spectrum live is also a director of trading pursuits.

This is not an unusual situation in Australia. There are thousands of directors in Australia who sit on more than one board, sometimes as many as 5 or 6. Are you not aware that many retired politicians, for instance, often end up as directors on several company boards?

 

[excellent]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

good laugh before falling asleep..alvin you'd be good in this role if you were to apply (http://www.seek.com.au/job/25621910)

I was invited to this forum by a good friend of mine. She thought I might learn something by coming here, and she was right.

i would have thought over the past few years that you would have learnt the pitfalls of the strategy you're trying so desperately to defend...no losing months, downside protection.. how did the current Trading Pursuits' recommended Anadarko Petroleum trade go Alvin? PureSilk?

I am familiar with trading pursuits, but I don't use spectrum live as my broker. It is quite possible that a director of spectrum live is also a director of trading pursuits.

spectrum live charge laughable brokerage and horrible spreads. also, it's more than possible that a director of spectrum live is also a director of trading pursuits...it's a sure thing

This is not an unusual situation in Australia. There are thousands of directors in Australia who sit on more than one board, sometimes as many as 5 or 6. Are you not aware that many retired politicians, for instance, often end up as directors on several company boards?

of course it's not unusual. however when you pay THOUSANDS of dollars per person for a education course over a weekend you would think the hosts would be content with this massive revenue (you've outlined in an earlier post how much daniel earns holding weekend seminars). but to then find out that the director of spectrum live is also the director of trading pursuits AND offering appalling spreads on fx etc. to baby boomers that have never traded before..and attendees sign up at each seminar

 

[Pure Silk]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

how did the current Trading Pursuits' recommended Anadarko Petroleum trade go Alvin? PureSilk?

All will be revealed when I post my December results this weekend.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Why do I sometimes get the feeling I am talking to 5 year old kindergarten kids?

I am implying no such thing. Scams do still exist, but they are all exposed eventually. If not by ASIC, then by our friends in the media.

So the previous media articles linked in this thread do not constitute exposing a scam in your opinion?

The reason there is less than one year's results available is the simple fact that the fund has only been running since April. After 6 months it showed a return at the rate of 15 % p.a.

Daniel Kertcher has a bit more than 6 months experience at the prop desk. He has been trading for about 15 years. One of his chief traders has 30 years experience and used to be Head of Trading in of of Australia's largest banks.

If Daniel has so much experience, why are there no funds with more than 6 moths of results available? Any fund manager worth his salt would have years worth of continuous results, and would not claim a pa % figure based on a few months of results

 

[mazzatelli]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

PS - your inbox is full...lol

Haha, sorry sails! I've cleared that up now, its been so long I didn't even realise it was full

Daniel Kertcher has a bit more than 6 months experience at the prop desk. He has been trading for about 15 years. One of his chief traders has 30 years experience and used to be Head of Trading in of of Australia's largest banks.

I started out as a quant at an IB, so interested to know who this Chief Trader you speak of is. I can only think of one reason why someone with that level of experience would be involved in selling otm gamma, and the reason isn't good.

 

[skyQuake]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=120_329_240&juris=9&hdtext=ARSN&srchsrc=1

Name PURSUING ALPHA FUND
ARSN: 120 329 240
Former Name(s) BRIDGE-WAY CAPITAL AUSTRALIAN EQUITY FUND
KPI GLOBAL MACRO FUND
MASTERING WEALTH PERFORMANCE FUND
MASTERING WEALTH GROWTH FUND
PLATINUM PURSUITS GROWTH PLUS HEDGE FUND
HALIFAX DERIVATIVE PREMIER FUND

Quite a few incarnations eh?

http://www.amhonline.com.au/kpiglobal/
http://www.amhonline.com.au/mwunitprice/
http://www.amhonline.com.au/ppunitprice/


KPI Global Macro Fund : Went from $1 to $0.719
Mastering Wealth Perfomrance Fund: Went from $1 to $0.574
Mastering Wealth Growth Fund : Went from $1 to $0.095 (ouch!)

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yes, and let's not forget sitting politicians are required to disclose any interest. Including husbands and wifes for example.

And your point is? I said RETIRED politicians.

 

[minwa]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

A $100,000 investment in a Platinum Pursuits seminar mid 2007 (minimum was $50k) ended up $5700 by December 2010.

An astounding 94% loss to investors and their families.

I wonder where the "guaranteed stop loss" went. They can invite Alvin to trade for them as he hasn't had a losing month in years. Quite the opposite of Daniel's funds performance, month after month lose.

 

[minwa]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

BTW, APC was a naked put. I never deal in naked puts, because that really would be picking up pennies in front of a moving steamroller. As you ought to know, I deal mainly with covered calls (a lot safer).

Covered calls a lot safer than naked put ? You've gotta be kidding me..where did you learn the basics ? Let me guess..from Daniel ??

By the way still waiting for your response on the results of past few funds of Daniel's. Do you think he should be allowed to educate people when he keeps returning negative returns and then creates a new fund to erase past ?

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

minwa, if you don't know that covered calls are a lot safer than naked puts, then you have a lot to learn. I did not say they are 100 % safe, but they are definitely safer than naked puts (and for that matter naked calls), but with the right technique they can be made even safer. Even the skeptics on this forum (and there are a few) will admit that covered calls are safer (by definition) than naked puts or naked calls.

I would not give Daniel my money to invest, because I can do better myself than the 15 % p.a. his fund is returning currently.

In a few days Pure Silk will show us his results for his December trades. I would say that some of his naked calls (if he took them) will show substantial losses, while his covered calls (if he took them) will most likely show a profit.

I took only covered calls this month. One of them got stopped out, but all the others will show a profit when the calls expire tomorrow morning.

 

[mazzatelli]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Covered call is a synthetic of the naked short put.

I doubt you read any of the books WayneL recommended, since that will be the first thing you learn.