Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple · 11 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Wayne, Wayne, Wayne.

Do I have to keep reminding you that this thread is not about me, it is about Daniel Kertcher.

For three years now you guys have been claiming that Daniel is a scam, but you have failed to provide any credible evidence. You are the ones having a credibility problem, not me.

Unless you can show us where ASIC has stepped in, taken action against Daniel and have outed him as a scam, all you are doing is pissing in the wind.

I have told you before and I am telling you again, I don't show my broker's statement to anyone, not even my closest friends. My friends can see that I am a successful trader, they don't need any proof. A wise old man once told me: "Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."

I have already shown you two trades, I've told you about them as I was putting them on and I told you about their successful conclusion.

Since I am talking to experienced traders I'll even let you know about a trade that's possibly coming up this week. The company is INTEL and if the right signals appear, I'll be in like Flynn.

Remember, you heard it here first.

You see, I don't have to prove my past performance, that is already on the record.

What I have to prove is that I can pick trades BEFORE they happen.

Now I must get back to my Moomba celebrations.

Have a nice day,

Alvin Purple

sinner · 11 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I think that village idiots back of the napkin calculations have already proved that Alvin is basically leveraged beta chasing with horrible long term R:R. The returns which Samuel is quoting to investor funds is pretty much what I would expect from the kind of trades which village idiot deconstructed. So what is the point of this discussion? Is anyone here who has ever traded options finding this discussion anything but disgusting? Every post Alvin puts up makes me a little queasier.

Facts:

since alvin wont do the maths, i have got my fag packet out again and according to it his AAPL trade involves $2.7m worth of stock , so at 10% margin he has put up $270k to win $3660. Cool. By the way how often does AAPl close up by more than 6.7% over a week? You have a figure for that right Alvin?

Realistically we should no longer entertain discussions like this on the forum, as this has become a pointless loop like all the other threads on "wealth schemes" which we see here so often. In our politeness we have more than once given these people a platform they don't deserve on a forum like ASF.

The policy should be that any claims made about returns for a commercially offered product require immediate verification by a moderator, or the user is banned as a spruiker and the product immediately added to an ASF "Scam Alert" thread. At which point if the operators of the product feel they are being defamed, simply require to provide verified performance statements and a retraction from the list issued.

Trembling Hand · 11 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

sinner said:
Realistically we should no longer entertain discussions like this on the forum, as this has become a pointless loop like all the other threads on "wealth schemes" which we see here so often. In our politeness we have more than once given these people a platform they don't deserve on a forum like ASF.

The policy should be that any claims made about returns for a commercially offered product require immediate verification by a moderator, or the user is banned as a spruiker and the product immediately added to an ASF "Scam Alert" thread. At which point if the operators of the product feel they are being defamed, simply require to provide verified performance statements and a retraction from the list issued.

+++ 100000

sinner · 11 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Thanks Samuel for that link. Inside was a dead hyperlink to consumer.org.nz, so I did some digging.

From the 2003 Annual Report of "Consumers Institute of New Zealand"

page 5
See for yourself: http://www.consumer.org.nz/content/uploads/Image/PDFs/annualreport2003.pdf

sinner · 11 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Anyone got an archive copy of this article?

http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=153

Last month, the New Zealand Consumers' Institute wrote an article about one of Phil's pals – a guy called Daniel Kertcher. Phil had been urging consumers to attend Daniel's seminars on how to get rich trading options. Kertcher's magical share techniques were even more impressive than Phil Jones's magical property techniques. "The challenge is to turn two grand into a million," said Kertcher.

Phew, no wonder Phil Jones, with his passion to help consumers, was encouraging people to pay thousands to Kertcher.

But the Consumers' Institute were, to put it mildly, rather critical of Kertcher, not just for his share trading activities, but for his past property activities. In a 2001 headline which screamed Watch out for these people, the Consumers' Institute featured a photo of Kertcher together with a story about how he ripped-off an elderly man on one of his many dodgy Gold Coast apartment deals. In this example, the 69 year-old lost $86,000.

also referenced here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=228205

The Consumers Institute does an excellent job informing the public about dubious investment schemes.
Queensland-based Daniel Kertcher, who is trying to target New Zealand sharemarket investors, has been mentioned several times.
Consumer, the institute's magazine, says Mr Kertcher promoted overvalued Queensland properties to New Zealanders and many of these investors have lost large sums of money on their purchases.
Mr Kertcher is a former director of Metashare International, the company that promotes the Metashare share-trading system. The Consumers Institute is sceptical about the performance of this expensive system.

Mr Kertcher is now fronting get rich quick sharemarket seminars in Auckland that are independent of Metashare.

One this evening is on how to make money on the sharemarket and a subsequent three-day session is on share and options trading. This evening's seminar costs $89.95 and the three-day session is priced at $3490 a person.

Mr Kertcher is promoting a high-risk options strategy based on the Australian Stock Exchange. This is an extremely difficult strategy to master, even for investors with long experience of equity markets.

or this one from 2004

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=3551109

.

I think it is extremely apparent that Daniel Kertcher is a very successful, long time con artist. I am almost tempted to post a link to this thread on 4chan just to see what Anonymous would do about it. Mr Kertcher, I suggest you take your sock puppets and leave this forum for good, lest my temptation grow further.

Alvin Purple · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So, is that the best you can do?

Consumers Institute of New Zealand.

What a toothless tiger!

They, who are making an annual loss at the expense of the NZ taxpayer, mention Daniel Kertcher once: Under "Scams" - Daniel Kertcher trading options.

And that's it?

No follow up, no details? No prosecution - nothing, nada, zilch, nix. Ten years of nothing.

What a bunch of bureaucratic nohopers, being a drain on the taxpayer.

Then: The NZ Herald.

Don't get me started on journalists. There must me a reason why journalists are way down on the list of trusted persons, down there somewhere near last place with used car salesmen and drug dealers.

As we have seen recently some journalists will stoop to anything to sell newspapers. Nuff said.

So, that leaves ASIC as the only credible authority. As we have seen, and has been pointed out by several people here, ASIC take their job very serious, start investigating when a complaint is made and take proper action in the courts when prosecutions are warranted. They have a very good record of achieving results, exposing scams, issuing warnings and putting the guilty away.

So, what actions have ASIC taking against Daniel Kertcher?

I am sure there would have been some complaints lodged with ASIC. And ASIC would certainly have investigated. But it seems that no action was ever taken against Daniel Kertcher. Could it be that it was found that the complaints did not warrant prosecution? I can only guess.

This thread has been running for more than two years and a few people have already mentioned that it may be time to close it down. They may have a point, but I'll leave it to the moderators.

Bye the way, the March Options expired this morning, and while not everyone of Daniel's trades was profitable, the large majority of them were and the total return of all trades for March was at the rate of about 30 % p.a.

prawn_86 · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

How is ASIC any different to a Consumer Institute?

ASIC are well known for being under resourced and stretched to the limit, so it is entirely possible that they cannot cover everything int he financial realm. When have ASIC every had a successful prosecution either? They are hamstrung by inefficient laws and under staffing

Garpal Gumnut · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple said:
I am sure there would have been some complaints lodged with ASIC. And ASIC would certainly have investigated. But it seems that no action was ever taken against Daniel Kertcher. Could it be that it was found that the complaints did not warrant prosecution? I can only guess.

This thread has been running for more than two years and a few people have already mentioned that it may be time to close it down. They may have a point, but I'll leave it to the moderators.

Bye the way, the March Options expired this morning, and while not everyone of Daniel's trades was profitable, the large majority of them were and the total return of all trades for March was at the rate of about 30 % p.a.

This thread unless you take legal action will be unlikely to "close down ", although I do not speak for Joe Blow. Threads stay up even if comment ceases as is the case in threads on all stock sites.

And I would bet London to a brick Alvin that you would not take legal action to close this down, as the publicity would harm your bizarre 30% pa claimed profit story and the future uptake of similar schemes.

Post a projection, project it, evaluate it, publish it.

Retrospectivity has a Storm Financial smell to it.

prawn_86 said:
How is ASIC any different to a Consumer Institute?

ASIC are well known for being under resourced and stretched to the limit, so it is entirely possible that they cannot cover everything int he financial realm. When have ASIC every had a successful prosecution either? They are hamstrung by inefficient laws and under staffing

One of the problems with ASIC is that they are under resourced, as are all regulatory and compliance bodies.

On the other side , the wiles of scammeisters and frauds are infinite.

gg

Alvin Purple · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

prawn_86: Of course ASIC are under resourced and that makes their achievements all the more remarkable. I have personal experience of two cases (Lateral Trading and the Wagyu Beef Cattle Scam) where ASIC successfully prosecuted the promoters who received lengthy prison terms.

Over the years there have been hundreds of cases were ASIC have acted swiftly and obtained the desired result. Alan Bond is probably the best known case, but there have been others where the perpetrators are now dead, so I won't mention their names, but we all know who I am talking about.

My point is very clear: If Daniel Kertcher were a scam and had been ripping people off, he would have been prosecuted a long time ago and not only by ASIC. In Australia any private person who feels they have been wronged can take legal action against the offending party. There are dozens of law firms out there who are only too willing to take up a case and many will work on a "now win - no fee" basis. So, if so many people have been wronged, where are their cases?

The answer is: Daniel Kertcher has no case to answer.

Garpal Gumnut: WTF are you thinking? I have no interest in closing down this thread - it's providing me with hours of free entertainment.

Me taking legal action to close this thread down? You gotta be kidding.

Nothing can harm my monthly profits, they keep rolling in month after month whether you know about it or not.

I have already shown you two trades that I put on recently - from the day I put them on until their successful conclusion. There is nothing retrospective about it.

30 % p.a. is very achievable. Just because you can't get those returns doesn't mean others can't. Many of us do.

wayneL · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Ah, there are those unsubstantiated claims again.

I say pigs might fly, but hey I dont show my photos to anyone.

Alvin Purple · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

wayne_L, we all know that you are a tool, but you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

What is unsubstantiated about those trades that I was telling you as I was putting them on and carried them through to their successful conclusion?

Nothing unsubstantiated about that, nothing at all.

Bye the way, your bias is showing.

And, I don't have to prove a thing, not a darned thing.

And I am not trying to convince you of anything, because obviously you are too thick to understand.

wayneL · 16 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple said:
wayne_L, we all know that you are a tool, but you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

What is unsubstantiated about those trades that I was telling you as I was putting them on and carried them through to their successful conclusion?

Nothing unsubstantiated about that, nothing at all.

Bye the way, your bias is showing.

And, I don't have to prove a thing, not a darned thing.

And I am not trying to convince you of anything, because obviously you are too thick to understand.

So Alvin, again you resort to ad hom, in contravention of ASF code of conduct (the last resort of the loser), to duck a valid request for substantiation of claims.

You purported to show one trade in real time. It worked, good for you. These trades work most of the time. It is when they don't work that tell on the system. Just like trend trading systems rely on outliers to be profitable, synthetic short put system's Achilles heel are the outliers.

You have substantiated nothing at all.

The oft quoted maxim of 'picking up pennies in front of steamroller is valid... GSL or not.

You claim:
To never have had a losing trade
To make 30% PA or thereabouts
To have placed a trade that required nearly $300k of margin

None of these are substantiated.

Believe me, the least thing you have substantiated is that I am thick, biased, or do not understand. I will debate you, DK, or any of your collective colleagues on option pricing/theory, anywhere, anytime.

I don't have a challenge with the strategy... as mentioned before, I use the strategy myself when I think it appropriate; and I know the risks and rewards via the Greeks. Thus you cannot pull the wool over my (or several other's here) eyes.

What I do have a challenge with, is the misrepresentation of the risks and rewards. There are times in the market when the strategy is inappropriate, and times when the strategy will lose, even if the entry is entirely appropriate.

Ergo, every time you want to call me names and refuse to substantiate what you claim, you weaken your case to an even greater degree than already exists. It is the preserve of the scoundrel.

Of course, if you really want to rip me a new one, you could do so by substantiating your claims. Somehow, I doubt that my nether regions will be thus violated.

Garpal Gumnut · 17 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple said:
Nothing can harm my monthly profits, they keep rolling in month after month whether you know about it or not.

I have already shown you two trades that I put on recently - from the day I put them on until their successful conclusion. There is nothing retrospective about it.

30 % p.a. is very achievable. Just because you can't get those returns doesn't mean others can't. Many of us do.

Monthly profits, month after month, giving 30% pa , year after year, are difficult if not impossible to believe.

Show some proof and substantiation.

Otherwise I consider you to be a fantasist.

gg

Sean K · 17 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Garpal Gumnut said:
Monthly profits, month after month, giving 30% pa , year after year, are difficult if not impossible to believe.

Show some proof and substantiation.

Otherwise I consider you to be a fantasist.

gg

Yep, I really don't understand how anyone can consciously and morally claim such things without laying the detail out. I sincerely hope no one on ASF is gullible enough to believe a word of such claims without their own due dilligence. While this thread is slightly entertaining, its value lies in unmasking Alvin as one of ASFs greatest.

prawn_86 · 17 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

kennas said:
Yep, I really don't understand how anyone can consciously and morally claim such things without laying the detail out. I sincerely hope no one on ASF is gullible enough to believe a word of such claims without their own due dilligence. While this thread is slightly entertaining, its value lies in unmasking Alvin as one of ASFs greatest.

Yes i think this thread has pretty well demonstrated that anyone willing to sign up and pay thousands for one of DK's courses without asking questions that have been asked on this thread, probably deserves to lose their money, scam or not...

saroq · 19 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple said:
So, is that the best you can do?

Consumers Institute of New Zealand.

What a toothless tiger!

They, who are making an annual loss at the expense of the NZ taxpayer, mention Daniel Kertcher once: Under "Scams" - Daniel Kertcher trading options.

And that's it?

No follow up, no details? No prosecution - nothing, nada, zilch, nix. Ten years of nothing.

What a bunch of bureaucratic nohopers, being a drain on the taxpayer.

Then: The NZ Herald.

Don't get me started on journalists. There must me a reason why journalists are way down on the list of trusted persons, down there somewhere near last place with used car salesmen and drug dealers.

As we have seen recently some journalists will stoop to anything to sell newspapers. Nuff said.

So, that leaves ASIC as the only credible authority. As we have seen, and has been pointed out by several people here, ASIC take their job very serious, start investigating when a complaint is made and take proper action in the courts when prosecutions are warranted. They have a very good record of achieving results, exposing scams, issuing warnings and putting the guilty away.

So, what actions have ASIC taking against Daniel Kertcher?

I am sure there would have been some complaints lodged with ASIC. And ASIC would certainly have investigated. But it seems that no action was ever taken against Daniel Kertcher. Could it be that it was found that the complaints did not warrant prosecution? I can only guess.

This thread has been running for more than two years and a few people have already mentioned that it may be time to close it down. They may have a point, but I'll leave it to the moderators.

Bye the way, the March Options expired this morning, and while not everyone of Daniel's trades was profitable, the large majority of them were and the total return of all trades for March was at the rate of about 30 % p.a.

How does DK not being mentioned in ASIC negate the other information about his past conduct?

So you've mentioned 2 successful trades you've had, I wish I could sell a trading system for thousands of dollars based only the evidence of 2 successful trades. Maybe you are very profitable but you won't convince anyone without documented proof over a suitable time frame.

saroq · 23 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

sinner said:
Thanks Samuel for that link. Inside was a dead hyperlink to consumer.org.nz, so I did some digging.

From the 2003 Annual Report of "Consumers Institute of New Zealand"

View attachment 51280
page 5
See for yourself: http://www.consumer.org.nz/content/uploads/Image/PDFs/annualreport2003.pdf

If you are considering purchasing the Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits system please read the above excellent post. You will see that he is listed under scams.

saroq · 23 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

sinner said:
Anyone got an archive copy of this article?

http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=153

also referenced here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=228205

or this one from 2004

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=3551109

.

I think it is extremely apparent that Daniel Kertcher is a very successful, long time con artist. I am almost tempted to post a link to this thread on 4chan just to see what Anonymous would do about it. Mr Kertcher, I suggest you take your sock puppets and leave this forum for good, lest my temptation grow further.

If you are considering purchasing the Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits system please read the above excellent post.

ftw129 · 23 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

saroq said:
If you are considering purchasing the Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits system please read the above excellent post.

saroq,

Fair go mate. These articles are over 10 years old and have as much substance to them as a Today Tonight report.

My own feeling is that it's pretty obvious that Daniels courses etc are not a "scam" as such. They are valid and can be substantiated as a real product. There appears to be a lot of people that have bought his courses and were very happy with it (based on the testimonials on his site). However these testimonials come only from new students and relate directly to just the courses and their content, not their actual ongoing results.

A scam insinuates that Daniel is taking money but not delivering the product that he's been promoting or just disappearing with peoples money all together. It seems as though people actually receive what they think they are paying for. That is, he delivers the courses and the information that they are signing up for. There's no doubt about that.

That of course doesn't necessarily mean that what he sells actually ends up turning people into long term profitable traders. Evidence of that is still yet to surface.... After 10 plus years there must be hundreds of people out there willing to share their success stories. There is no evidence of this....

WHERE ARE THEY?

If it were a scam it would have been shut down years ago.

wayneL · 23 March 2013

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

For a rather large fee, for perhaps one of the simplest and common strategies that can be found anywhere on the Internet, DK purports that outsized gains can be safely made.

While the strategy is valid, the representation that consistent income can be safely made is not.

Ergo, though not the most heinous scam in the world, DK misrepresents the reality of trading this strategy.

Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin Purple

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Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

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Ross Island Hotel

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VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

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prawn_86

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Sell crap and manage risk

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