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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
Jump to new
There is a horrific story at the moment around anti vaxxers terrorising a Queensland Doctor under the totally false assumption that two young girls dies after being vaxxed in his clinic.

It comes after another recent Facebok post which describred in excruciiating detail the tragic death of beautiful seven year old boy after being vaccinated. It just never happened. Another total, vicious lie.

‘Utter fear’: Gold Coast GP receives death threats from ‘anti-vaxxers’ after false claim of child vaccine deaths​

Police investigate threats after Facebook posts claiming two girls died in waiting room incited ‘widespread panic’ in community

Dr Wilson Chin pulled his GP clinic out of the vaccine rollout after Facebook posts falsely claimed two girls died after being vaccinated and his staff received death threats. Photograph: Carolyn Kaster/AP

Caitlin Cassidy
Tue 1 Feb 2022 18.09 AEDT
Last modified on Tue 1 Feb 2022 19.35 AEDT


A Gold Coast doctor has been subjected to death threats and abuse and is living in “utter fear” of anti-vaxxers thanks to false reports that two children died in his clinic after being administered the Pfizer vaccine.
The Pacific Pines GP, Dr Wilson Chin, said “widespread panic” swept through his community when false reports spread online that the two children had died in his clinic.

The girls suffered what Chin described as a “normal” fainting episode while under observation at the clinic a fortnight ago and have since recovered.

But a post to a Facebook page purporting to be a “personal eyewitness account” wrongly claimed the girls had suffered “violent convulsions” and later died in the waiting room.

Another Facebook user posted false information describing the girls as “unresponsive when ambos got there” and encouraging others to share the post.

The backlash ultimately forced the clinic to pull out of the vaccine rollout of five to 11-year-olds after Chin and his colleagues received death threats, which have been reported to police.

‘Utter fear’: Gold Coast GP receives death threats from ‘anti-vaxxers’ after false claim of child vaccine deaths

Police investigate threats after Facebook posts claiming two girls died in waiting room incited ‘widespread panic’ in community
www.theguardian.com
 

Johns Hopkins University​

Meta-analysis by Hopkins University concludes that "lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, while they have imposed enormous economic and social costs."​
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Lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy.​
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Furthermore, "studies looking at specific NPIs (lockdown vs. no lockdown, facemasks, closing non-essential businesses, border closures, school closures, and limiting gatherings) also find no broad-based evidence of noticeable effects on COVID-19 mortality."​



 
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I still need my head read, as does most of Japan now l guess...



Ivermectin shows ‘antiviral effect’ against COVID, Japanese company says​


TOKYO, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Japanese trading and pharmaceuticals company Kowa Co Ltd on Monday said that anti-parasite drug ivermectin showed an "antiviral effect" against Omicron and other coronavirus variants in joint non-clinical research.​
​
The company, which has been working with Tokyo's Kitasato University on testing the drug as a potential treatment for COVID-19, did not provide further details. The original Reuters story misstated that ivermectin was "effective" against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials, which are conducted in humans.​
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Clinical trials are ongoing, but promotion of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment has generated controversy.​
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Prominent vaccine sceptic Joe Rogan, whose podcast on Spotify has prompted protests by singers Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, has long stirred controversy with his views on the pandemic, government mandates and COVID-19 vaccines.​
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Rogan has questioned the need for vaccines and said he used ivermectin.​
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The drug is not approved for treatment of COVID-19 in Japan, and the U.S. Food & Drug Administration, the World Health Organization, the EU drug regulator and Merck (MRK.N), which makes the drug, have warned against its use because of a lack of scientific evidence that it has therapeutic effect.​
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In guidance on its website dated September 2021, the FDA noted growing interest in the drug for preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans but said it had received multiple reports of patients who had required medical attention, including hospitalisation, after self-medicating with it.​
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The use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 is currently being investigated in a UK trial run by the University of Oxford. The researchers said on Monday that it was still under way and they did not want to comment further until they have results to report.​
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Many potential COVID-19 treatments that showed promise in test tubes, including the antimalarial hydroxychloroquine promoted by former U.S. President Donald Trump, ultimately failed to show benefit for COVID-19 patients once studied in clinical trials.​
​



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Good article.

Hydroxychloroquine, or rather its touters, ended up effectively killing many Americans due to the fact it didn't work.

It is strange how some people when drowning metaphorically can be offered an oar to cling onto but would rather grasp at straws.

We know Ivermectin has an anti viral effect but to be useful you need to take large doses that the body can't tolerate and causes large side effects. You end up in hospital as the article mentions. We have seen the studies and its not very effective. Much better alternatives that are proven.
 
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Oxford Trial on hold and similar trials cancelled due to it not being very effective if at all. It is being dropped for better alternatives.

A major ivermectin study has been withdrawn, so what now for the controversial drug?

Investigations have led to the withdrawal of a study backing ivermectin to treat COVID-19. But that’s not the last time we’ll hear about this controversial drug.
theconversation.com

University of Oxford PRINCIPLE Trial Puts Ivermectin Study Arm on Hold—Purported Supply Issues

TrialSite has chronicled the ivermectin studies, including the important PRINCIPLE trial led by the University of Oxford. Now, interestingly, the prestigious Anglo-academic research center has announced the ivermectin arm of the study is on “hold” due to “temporary supply issues.”
trialsitenews.com

Seriously there are proven drugs that are effective. Look at them.
 
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barney said:
I may be incorrect, but would "the other" possibly be "Reductionism"?
Click to expand...
No as covid data is not "complex".
The highlighted data was a statistical distortion as you got the impression that deaths rose from zero to 15% due to vaccination ineffectiveness. In fact January 2021 was the first month that anyone double vaxxed in America met the threshold to start the count from zero as prior to then nobody had been double vaxxed for more than 4 weeks. It doesn't help that the paper was written by a geographer and his student rather than an epidemiologist and statistician!
The article was in AJM's Review and was a proposed algorithm for outpatient treatment. I actually think it was pretty good at the time it was published as there really were no conclusive RCTs available to offer proven effective treatments. The problem was that hospital treatment protocols were different and have since had the benefit of clinic trial evidence to constantly improve. On the other hand McCulloch has not moved with the times and continues to advocate unproven treatments. As @Knobby22 notes:
Knobby22 said:
... there are proven drugs that are effective. Look at them.
Click to expand...
 
From the Study:

Of course there are no economic implications for businesses unable to open because staff cannot work, nor are there any extra hospital expenses for having every bed full, ICUs overburdened and staffing levels maxxed out .
The other thing about the study is that it only uses other studies as its basis, so if there were no studies for NZ or Australia, or China then the data gets skewed.
What an absolute crock!
 
Indeed. But hey, they have used the John Hopkins university name as gold plated respect for the analysis and have managed to get it published across scores of online and printed publications.

If Johns Hopkins doesn't take some very quick action to analyse this study and officially disown it then they may as well become an adjunct of Prager University and such ilk.
 
I'm sorry but China has the strictest lockdowns around and they are still having trouble.

Remember Melbourne lockdowns during omicron?
No because it was pointless and they quickly found out that it didn't work.

Original covid yes. We didn't know what it was, or what treatments to use. But lockdowns created huge problems on there own that will last for years to come.
 
Knobby22 said:
Oxford Trial on hold and similar trials cancelled due to it not being very effective if at all. It is being dropped for better alternatives.
Click to expand...

Ivermectin unfortunately has become a bit of a political football, and at the moment there is probably little point in harping on about it whether we are pro or anti the drug.

Just for balance however, because I believe Ivermectin has not been given a fair go, and in regard to your (@Knobby22) "links" above

I think it needs to be stated, that the negative news report you linked was based on the 2020 "Elgazza" study.

The main stream media always seem to go for this study when trying to debunk ivermectin (bear in mind the study was actually "too" positive so appears "enhanced") With that in mind, even as an Ivermectin supporter, I accept that the Elgazza study looks "duplicated", and therefore should not be used in any meta analysis studies

Interestingly, all the meta analysis of the drug, even with the Elgazza study removed, that I've looked at, still show a positive result in favour of Ivermectin helping a large number of "patients" recover more quickly. The only study that didnt was a very poor "super small" study by anti-Ivermectin folk, but it was so obviously flawed/biased (even to my "uneducated" brain), that it could not be taken seriously. (hopefully someone can find it so we can all see how poor it was)

ps I'm not suggesting it is some wonder drug, but I think it has shown enough efficacy to be included as an early treatment option, for those that deem it (in consultation with their Doctor) worth a try. ie. Choice, not censorship.

No further ranting on that, but I'd suggest that using the Elgazza study (One Study) as an argument to debunk Ivermectin is a weak argument at best, when there is far more data to digest as a whole?

To continue:
 
OK, so in response to @Knobby22 recent reference to the "Oxford Study" on Ivermectin being "put on hold" because it was shown to be "INEFFECTIVE" and was dropped because better alternatives were available?

The "company" line is, that the study was paused due to "SUPPLY ISSUES" (Their words not mine)


I make no assumption, but a couple of interesting points to consider:

1) The pharmaceutical company supplying the Oxford study (Edinbridge Pharmaceuticals) stated there was NO SUPPLY ISSUES from their end.

2) Just as the Oxford study on Ivermectin was put on hold, Merck were awarded a $2.2 Billion government contract on their new "covid pill"
(ps I have not fact checked the above, so if incorrect, please call me out)

Potential red flags there if true however


If Ivermectin is of no use/value for covid treatment, we can all deal with that and get on with life

The continual push to make it into a "bad guy" when it could be taken by anybody with bugger all side effects ... just seems odd to me.
 
rederob said:
No as covid data is not "complex".
I actually think it was pretty good at the time it was published as there really were no conclusive RCTs available to offer proven effective treatments.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the information/comment Red
rederob said:
On the other hand McCulloch has not moved with the times and continues to advocate unproven treatments.
Click to expand...

I understand your point, especially since Dr Mac has become more "vaccine resistant", but it should perhaps be noted that he did update his treatment protocol to include Budesonide once it became obvious it was a benefit in treatment.

I believe history will prove him to be genuine even though he is not keen on the "vaccines"
 
It has got to work otherwise....
Are you going to give this to someone like Glenn Wheatley when there is stuff that really works? Not if you take the Hippocratic oath.

I reckon the supply issues is an excuse as it relates to forcing unfortunates to take the drug. I certainly would be very angry if they offered it to my mother as part of the study. All the decent results so far show any effect is marginal at best.
 
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Yeah, not sure of exactly what you are suggesting Knobby, but given I was a semi-pro muso in Sydney back "in the day", I'm certainly not happy if covid was a major part of the reason for Glen's passing.

The facts are, he has now passed . Was he given Ivermectin? Obviously not. So the "stuff that really works" did not work,??

Had they tried Ivermectin as a last resort (perhaps as an earlier resort would have been better I'd submit), what was the actual risk, even if it proves to have no benefit? (I'd say bugger all risk with 100% potential upside)

I'd also suggest Glen had a few health issues that the main stream media are not promoting


If you are suggesting that the curtailing of the Oxford Study on Ivermectin was initiated because giving Ivermectin was deemed to be so "ineffective", that to give it to patients would be counter-productive? or even hurtful/or something similar??

Respectfully, that makes no logical sense given the safety profile of the drug is multiples higher than aspirin or Panadol.

I really do not understand why the world wants to discredit Ivermectin?? (Unless you are Merck of course)

Meta analysis indicates it helps a high percentage of people. And even if it eventually proves to be useless, it hurts no one.


I believe there are some further current studies being done on Ivermectin. If they prove it is ineffective after rigorous assessment by "independent" assessors, I will be happy to concede, but I'm not sure we have the whole story just yet.

Again I repeat; I don't pretend Ivermectin is the holy grail of covid prevention, but the old adage of "don't cut your nose off to spite your face" rings true.

ps Cheers M8 ... Post not meant to be personal at all
 
wayneL said:
'Straya

Click to expand...
Typical of the fools who use twitter.
The security guards were just doing their jobs.
Hospitals have rules that aim to keep people safe from infection.
They might seem harsh in some circumstances but they are there for a reason.
Unless this woman has the power to resurrect the dead she should have known better.
 
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