Colorado, gun control and the 2nd Amendment

[DB008]

As we all know, there was a terrible tragedy with Colorado a few days ago.

Seems that Americans are brainwashed with the 2nd Amendment

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Both the political parties won't go near the issue of gun control as it's an election year. Sad.

A father who lost a son in the Columbine school shootings was interviewed. He was all for tighter gun control, he was also in tears with what happen in Colorado.

Good article in the L.A. Times regarding gun control.
Few signs Colorado shooting will make gun control a campaign issue

I wonder when the next mass shooting will take place? (As sad as it is to say that).

There have been 50 'mass shootings' since US senator Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head while meeting constituents at a grocery store some 18 months ago. A shooting with 2 or more people shot is considered a mass shooting.

Yes, we have issues here in Australia, mainly in Sydney at the moment. However, it is concentrated to the bike groups + Middle Eastern drug gangs in Western Sydney.

Opinions?

**Edit - another interesting article related to this subject.

The Dream Of Maximum Guns

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York, who has waged a national campaign for stricter gun laws, offered a political challenge. "Maybe it's time that the two people who want to be president of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it," Mr. Bloomberg said during his weekly radio program, "because this is obviously a problem across the country."

Luke O'Dell of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, a Colorado group on the other side of the debate over gun control, took a nearly opposite view. "Potentially, if there had been a law-abiding citizen who had been able to carry in the theater, it's possible the death toll would have been less." Some survivors thought at first they were witnessing a promotional stunt.

The gunman, wearing what Aurora Police Department officials described as nearly head-to-toe "ballistic gear," including a throat protector and leggings, plus a gas mask and a long black coat, came in through a parking lot exit door near the screen of Theater 9.

 

[prawn_86]

Yep, another sad story, but it certainly wont be the last until someone over there does somehting about gun control. They never will however as the NRA is too powerful a political lobby force, and all parties are happy to see innocent people massacred in order to receive more funding

Stange country is the old US of A

 

[Glen48]

USA seem to have their own particular version of mental like a mirror image if the Arabian countries.

I think Obama is trying to limit gun sale but more for any civil unrest coming over the next few years.

If you are for Abortion and gun control in USA forget about running for any position including Tuck shop manager and up.

 

[Glen48]

I also see the " Joker " had 6k rounds which should have send bells ringing and he planned the shoot up for many months before.

 

[Joules MM1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/opinion/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share

Op-Ed Contributor
We’ve Seen This Movie Before
By ROGER EBERT
Published: July 20, 2012

excerpts

That James Holmes is insane, few may doubt. Our gun laws are also insane, but many refuse to make the connection. The United States is one of few developed nations that accepts the notion of firearms in public hands. In theory, the citizenry needs to defend itself. Not a single person at the Aurora, Colo., theater shot back, but the theory will still be defended.

Immediately after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry. Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.

“I was shown how fragile life was,” she wrote. “I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath.”

This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora.

welcome to america
"....after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry. Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.
This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora."

 

[Glen48]

More shootings:

An off-duty US police officer accidentally shot dead his son in what appears to be a case of mistaken identity.Michael Leach, 59, called 911 just after midnight on July 21 and told operators he had just shot someone he thought was an intruder at the Clark Beach Motel, in New York State.When police arrived at the motel they discovered the man Mr Leach had shot was his 37-year-old son, Matthew Leach, local online news service Syracuse.com reports.The police said Mr Leach had used his department-issued handgun in the shooting.He was taken to a local hospital after the incident for a "medical issue".The shooting is being investigated.​

 

[CanOz]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/opinion/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share

Op-Ed Contributor
We’ve Seen This Movie Before
By ROGER EBERT
Published: July 20, 2012

excerpts






welcome to america
"....after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry. Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.
This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora."

Is this for real? That's really poor luck to be in Canada for a shooting then in the US for one as well. Canada would have a shooting every few years maybe but the US would be one every 12-18 months i reckon...

CanOz

 

[bullet21]

I don't think that firearms are to blame here. There are countries with an active gun culture like Serbia, Switzerland and eve New Zealand. You never see these types of things happening there. The laws aren't as relaxed as they are in America obviously, but I still thing there is something more rotten at the core of American culture that seems to create these scenarios over and over.

But no one will want to look into that, after these types of incidents the reactionaries and just world theorists will come out and point at a perceived devil, so we tell ourselves "we got to the bottom of that" and go back to sleep. Just like after Columbine it was Marilyn Mansons fault. No one wants real answers because they may be a bit to hard to find or even to confronting if we do find them.

 

[Joules MM1]

I don't think that firearms are to blame here. There are countries with an active gun culture like Serbia, Switzerland and eve New Zealand. You never see these types of things happening there. The laws aren't as relaxed as they are in America obviously, but I still thing there is something more rotten at the core of American culture that seems to create these scenarios over and over.

But no one will want to look into that, after these types of incidents the reactionaries and just world theorists will come out and point at a perceived devil, so we tell ourselves "we got to the bottom of that" and go back to sleep. Just like after Columbine it was Marilyn Mansons fault. No one wants real answers because they may be a bit to hard to find or even to confronting if we do find them.

i lived in New Zealand for 17 years and never got that there was a an active cultural bent for guns......

you might want to read this article, too:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/special..._troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804

excerpt

Here’s one record the Swiss may not be so enthusiastic about holding:
more suicides are committed here using guns per capita than anywhere else in Europe.

blame is not the issue......the issue is the proliferation of guns ....how many death-by-spoon incidents have we had recently? ; "a man was arrested for terrorising a movie going crowd with a spoon"

get rid of the damned guns

 

[Joules MM1]

the proliferation of guns is not even an issue......there is no issue, there is a huge group of idiots that think keeping guns is ok for the sake of keeping guns.....no, wait, foolish naive me......the non-issue is about those with money making money from guns.......i am in the defense of innocent people being alive not protecting an @rseholes right bare a grudge!

 

[bullet21]

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/special..._troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804

The premise for the article was people would not commit suicide as often if it was a bit harder. A weak argument to begin with then he goes on to concede they'll do it by other means.

the proliferation of guns is not even an issue......there is no issue, there is a huge group of idiots that think keeping guns is ok for the sake of keeping guns.....no, wait, foolish naive me......the non-issue is about those with money making money from guns.......i am in the defense of innocent people being alive not protecting an @rseholes right bare a grudge!

There's a whole group of "idiots" who use guns for sport, hunting, self defence (against criminals & the state should the need arise)

 

[Joules MM1]

The premise for the article was people would not commit suicide as often if it was a bit harder. A weak argument to begin with then he goes on to concede they'll do it by other means.



There's a whole group of "idiots" who use guns for sport, hunting, self defence (against criminals & the state should the need arise)

are you serious, i mean, are you kidding yourself or what?

A weak argument to begin with

this isnt some semantic debate....this is a conversation about people and death.......have you any idea how final a bullet through the head or heart is? have you ever been in an emergency ward? have you any idea how adamant surgeons are against the brutality from firearm discharge?

Look, take away a gun and you got the option of time.....sure, if a person is at their wits-end, they'll find a way, sure, i get that, but, is that a stance upon which to defend something that hastens death?.....

all this so i can protect myself against the state bollox is just twaddle for sake of keeping guns.....want a steak? go to the super market, want to go target practise? buy the equipment designed for safe target practise.....real men dont hurt other people, real men dont need guns......it's 2012 not 1700's

dont hide behind "a farmer needs a gun to put down a injured animal" because that's what a farmer has a gun for not any other individual.......

pro gun owners throw up the most pathetic reasoning for onwership.....the most pathetic reason to feel in control.......

 

[MrBurns]

They should psychoanalyse the hell out of that kid to find out WHY he did it, the influences .....anything, that information would be valuable.

 

[Joules MM1]

the simple truth is; this clown who shot all those people would have had little opportunity to do so without the ease of gun ownership......anyone who says "it's not the gun it's the owner" is a moron using cheap legalise talk to get out of responsibility.......

classroom:

teacher: so, children, give me an example of taking care of your friends

10 year old: i know, we should all carry guns so we can shoot back at bad people when we go to the movies

yep, i can see how that works out

 

[bandicoot76]

are you serious, i mean, are you kidding yourself or what? this isnt some semantic debate....this is a conversation about people and death.......have you any idea how final a bullet through the head or heart is? have you ever been in an emergency ward? have you any idea how adamant surgeons are against the brutality from firearm discharge?

Look, take away a gun and you got the option of time.....sure, if a person is at their wits-end, they'll find a way, sure, i get that, but, is that a stance upon which to defend something that hastens death?.....

all this so i can protect myself against the state bollox is just twaddle for sake of keeping guns.....want a steak? go to the super market, want to go target practise? buy the equipment designed for safe target practise.....real men dont hurt other people, real men dont need guns......it's 2012 not 1700's

dont hide behind "a farmer needs a gun to put down a injured animal" because that's what a farmer has a gun for not any other individual.......

pro gun owners throw up the most pathetic reasoning for onwership.....the most pathetic reason to feel in control.......

you live in fantasy land, gun technology exists... you cant 'undo' technology once it is in existence.

the law of supply and demand mean that if a nutcase, psycho or criminal wants a gun they will get it, wether it be a commercially manufactured one or a homemade 'zip' gun as it is relatively easy to manufacture a homemade machine pistol and police in sydney have confiscated a large number of them recently..

.how will your gunlaws stop this occuring? answer? they wont! they never have and never will as bottom line is CRIMINALS DONT OBEY LAWS! DUH! gunlaws actually make a criminal/psycho's job easier as they dont have to worry about armed resistance from their victims being armed! i expect a naive emotive response from the do-gooders on this point but ive heard it all before and know it for the BS it is.

it is a rediculous notion that any laws or new legislation could 'get all the guns off the streets', possibly you could disarm 99% of law abiding citizens but nutjobs, crims and psycho-wannabes will always be armed if they want to be... get used to the fact.

the real danger is the person who has the disire to carry out such a sick and twisted act, not the method they use to accomplish their sadistic ambitions.

 

[Robbo]

If I go by last years US road toll stats, since this shooting on friday around 270 people have died from car accidents in the US. If I go by gun death and suicide stats around 255 people have died from shootings in the US with about 140 of them from suicide. Another 155 people commited suicide another way. ~821 people have died from factors related to poor dietry choices in the past 3 days in the US.

Gun control in the US is never going to happen, whether you like it or not, gun use is protected in the US by the constitution, it has bipartisan support in congress, it has a very powerful lobby group backing it. So maybe if all this wasted outrage, time, money, political capital was directed at factors that do a hell of a lot more damage that an occasional deranged individual we'd be much better off.

 

[MrBurns]

you live in fantasy land, gun technology exists... you cant 'undo' technology once it is in existence.

the law of supply and demand mean that if a nutcase, psycho or criminal wants a gun they will get it, wether it be a commercially manufactured one or a homemade 'zip' gun as it is relatively easy to manufacture a homemade machine pistol and police in sydney have confiscated a large number of them recently..

.how will your gunlaws stop this occuring? answer? they wont! they never have and never will as bottom line is CRIMINALS DONT OBEY LAWS! DUH! gunlaws actually make a criminal/psycho's job easier as they dont have to worry about armed resistance from their victims being armed! i expect a naive emotive response from the do-gooders on this point but ive heard it all before and know it for the BS it is.
it is a rediculous notion that any laws or new legislation could 'get guns off the streets', possibly you could disarm 99% of law abiding citizens but nutjobs, crims and psycho-wannabes will always be armed if they want to be... get used to the fact. the real danger is the person who has the disire to carry out such a sick and twisted act, not the method they use to accomplish their sadistic ambitions.

Thats crap, letting the general population have guns for no good reason is why those 9 people are dead, it's why John Lennon is dead it's the reason thousands are dead over there.

Crims can have guns they usuually just kill each other anyway, nut cases will kill you and your family in a shopping centre because the played that game on PS3 then walked in KMart and armed up, why dont you just wake up to yourself ?

 

[Julia]

I don't think that firearms are to blame here. There are countries with an active gun culture like Serbia, Switzerland and eve New Zealand.

New Zealand????? I lived there all my life until my 40's. Never saw a gun. There was no discussion about guns.
For god's sake, even the police are not armed!

bottom line is CRIMINALS DONT OBEY LAWS! DUH!

And that's the whole point.
Anyone who has the psychopathology to carefully plan an event like this will have no problem in acquiring the means to carry it through, regardless of any laws.

 

[bandicoot76]

Thats crap, letting the general population have guns for no good reason is why those 9 people are dead, it's why John Lennon is dead it's the reason thousands are dead over there.

Crims can have guns they usuually just kill each other anyway, nut cases will kill you and your family in a shopping centre because the played that game on PS3 then walked in KMart and armed up, why dont you just wake up to yourself ?

kinda missed the point there didnt you

no matter what laws are in place the technology to make guns exists, the black-market to distribute guns exists, the demand for guns exist, so psychos/crims/nutjobs will ALWAYS have access to them.

your little rant against law abiding firearm owners changes that fact not one little bit! i am awake... to your usual BS on the subject driven by emotive reaction rather than rational thought.

i agree with you 100% that nutcases are a threat, however i totally disagree with you that new laws will somehow miraculously stop them accessing weapons to carry out their sick agendas.

there are tens of millions of guns already in the global community, countries like belarus, china, iran etc are manufacturing mass produced cheap n nasty guns that continue to flood the world through blackmarkets worldwide, legally manufactured firearms are stolen from law abiding liscenced gun owners (by a corruption of the gun register system security apparently), military thefts and even guns stolen from police custody (the port arthur ar15 was handed into the victorian police in a gun amnesty some years before it ended in martin bryants hands) just add to the underground black market, to deny that anyone who wants a gun cant get one illegally just shows how naive you are...

and for you to try to somehow link law abiding firearm owners to these sicko nutjobs is both dishonest and insulting.

 

[Joules MM1]

you live in fantasy land, gun technology exists... you cant 'undo' technology once it is in existence.

the law of supply and demand mean that if a nutcase, psycho or criminal wants a gun they will get it, wether it be a commercially manufactured one or a homemade 'zip' gun as it is relatively easy to manufacture a homemade machine pistol and police in sydney have confiscated a large number of them recently..

.how will your gunlaws stop this occuring? answer? they wont! they never have and never will as bottom line is CRIMINALS DONT OBEY LAWS! DUH! gunlaws actually make a criminal/psycho's job easier as they dont have to worry about armed resistance from their victims being armed! i expect a naive emotive response from the do-gooders on this point but ive heard it all before and know it for the BS it is.

it is a rediculous notion that any laws or new legislation could 'get all the guns off the streets', possibly you could disarm 99% of law abiding citizens but nutjobs, crims and psycho-wannabes will always be armed if they want to be... get used to the fact.

the real danger is the person who has the disire to carry out such a sick and twisted act, not the method they use to accomplish their sadistic ambitions.

lulz,

cant undo technology.......bahaha.......where did you get that from ? your local debating night school class?

well, officer, i shot him coz the gun was invented and i cant undo technology, can i ?

all gun proponents eventually reach for the last resort "you live in fantasy land" button because youre intelligence wont allow anything else to exist, it's your last bastion of control.......

there are always going to be bad people who do bad things and honest people dont live in a fantasy land about that truth......people who believe an abundance of guns and promotion of guns to protect themselves are simply promoting the right to kill, thats it, that's all, period! people who want guns want control over something they cant ever get; control over their own fears of never never land .......the rest of us dont want to carry guns which doesnt make us anything but decent human beings and we dont walk around all day thinking about criminal ideas or worrying about criminal actions as we're too busy being productive and solving other issues people like you can enjoy the fruits of our labour, we spend far more time educating ourselves, thinking, planning productive ideas .......

"you live in fantasy land".......that's funny coming from a gun promoter......just because a technology exists......haha.....how feeble an excuse is that........if no one had invented a personal credit card do you think there'd be less debt? there'd still be debt just a lot less of it......wakey wakey, hand off snakey.......

that's the real challenge for gun promoters isnt it......the inability and the fear that comes from a lack of brain power, the lack of thorough thought process and belligerence towards anyone who says guns are just a waste......never fails to amaze me that gun promoters think theyre smarter than people who dont own guns......

maybe doctors and surgeons should throw away there technology for saving the injured from gun shot wounds and just take up arms themselves cos dont they live in fantasy land too ?

Is it just you who's a realist?

This isnt the second world war, we're not fighting off a foreign invader bent on wiping us out........i never said there werent people with mental disorders who become bent on hurting other people, in fact there is strong evidence that mental diseases are on the increase and proliferation of guns is hardly the cure.......but, then, you being a realist, you probably know better........good luck with that

ok, who's the next numpty who thinks guns are a good idea