CNP - Centro Properties Group

[Go Nuke]

Wow what a disaster!
And I thought AED was bad! LOL

Seeing the share price hit .42c today nearly made me fall over. I couldn't help myself and have taken yet another risk to buy a few CNP shares.

I'm planing for a short term hold. Hopefully the buyers will come in again soon as it seemed to get picked up pretty well from .42c.

After watching AED do the same thing recently Im planning for a rebound or an opportunistic takeover offer perhaps

How much lower could it go? (lol..famous last words eh)

 

[Ashsaege]

Wow what a disaster!
And I thought AED was bad! LOL

Seeing the share price hit .42c today nearly made me fall over. I couldn't help myself and have taken yet another risk to buy a few CNP shares.

I'm planing for a short term hold. Hopefully the buyers will come in again soon as it seemed to get picked up pretty well from .42c.

After watching AED do the same thing recently Im planning for a rebound or an opportunistic takeover offer perhaps

How much lower could it go? (lol..famous last words eh)

Welldone, CNP are back up to 85cents! I only heard about CNP on sunday when my mate was talking them up... poor fella!

 

[Santoro]

Just thought I would like to show the readers the major holders here....91% held by major banks with Barclays and UBS increasing and even entering in the last 2 months.

Guess who's been buying them during the slide....

 

[wayneL]

Just thought I would like to show the readers the major holders here....91% held by major banks with Barclays and UBS increasing and even entering in the last 2 months.

Guess who's been buying them during the slide....

... and these are the guys they call "the smart money"?

It's the worst euphemism in the financial world IMO.

 

[Go Nuke]

Well back in May 2000 the share price was had some good support and resistance between $2.036 and $2.136.

I don't know if that counts for anything now considering these are completely different times.
And I dont know if this will count at all but I'll put up the chart with the fib numbers for today.
(Probably better till the sp turns around but it will do)

 

[PennyHopeful]

With quality underlying assets surely this is seriously oversold? Obviously its a risky stock till the dust settles but if im a bank id lend to them.. they will pay overs and have plenty to secure it!

 

[numbercruncher]

Just thought I would like to show the readers the major holders here....91% held by major banks with Barclays and UBS increasing and even entering in the last 2 months.

Guess who's been buying them during the slide....

wow!

And every 1pc equates to roughly 50m in losses ? gawd if the crunch causes the big four take a few more hits like that and theyll get spanked too

Further to that, assuming i have the numbers roughly correct, lets use CBA as example , 13pc stake = 650m loss, CBA last years profit was like 4.5b - so like equivalent of 15pc of last years profit gone in one foul swoop ?, scary stuff.

 

[tronic72]

Here's something to make those suffering through the CNP collapse just a bit more pi$$ed.

"Centro loaned $44m to company execs
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Anthony Klan | December 19, 2007

THE most senior executives at Centro Properties Group - which is facing collapse after suffering a $6 billion meltdown this week - were given 10-year interest-free loans by the company to buy $44 million worth of shares.

However, seven of the company's top executives, including Centro's chief executive, Andrew Scott, chief operating officer, Graham Terry, and chief financial officer, Romano Nenna, may never have to pay the money back because of a legal clause in the generous share agreements that says the money does not need to be repaid if the share price collapse"

How many of the members of this site get that sort of deal to help buy their shares?

 

[ROE]

With quality underlying assets surely this is seriously oversold? Obviously its a risky stock till the dust settles but if im a bank id lend to them.. they will pay overs and have plenty to secure it!

Banks already made it clear to CNP ... we WONT lend you the money at this current leverage and if we do it going to be much tougher and higher rate.
Until Centro can start selling its shopping mall to bring equity down.. It's unlikely to secure funding.

and every man and its dog know CNP is in trouble, would they pay a good price for the property? Probably not they just play hardball and offer it cheap because they know time is on their hand not Centro.

too many unknown variables ...it could collapse it could survive who knows until Feb 15

 

[SevenFX]

So have you bought in ROE, or will you buy in.

What do you consider CNP fair value to be atm, and what do you base it on...????.

EDIT: It's been solddown since May of this year, from near doubletop at $10

SevenFX

 

[jman2007]

Centro Properties Group is a retail property investment and services organisation.

Centro has become one of Australia’s leading property owners with a portfolio valued in excess of $2.4 billion. Ownership interest is held in 30 shopping centres across main population areas in five states; with over 2,610 specialty stores, gross lettable area of 823,433 square metres and annual sales in excess of $3.1 billion.

Retail property under management, following acquisition of the MCS Property business is nearly $5.2 billion, and with the inclusion of the recently announced acquisition in California, USA, is over 6 billion. CT Retail has now been delisted and its properties acquired by Centro and Prime. Centro is now well established in the property syndication business, an area with assets under management of $2.1 billion and presenting great future opportunities.

Lol,

you gotta love the way some people sit back and with quiet pipe-puffing and beard stroking assurance state that the future prospects of a company "...presenting great future opportunities" without really knowing what that debt structure of a company is. Still, I guess not many people could forsee the credit squeeze looming on the horizion, with Centro prime amongst them. In hindsight, aggressive borrowers like Centro play a dangerous game highly leveraged to their ability to tap into a liquid credit market. It's just that they chose a helluva bad time to do it, I might even go along to the firesale auction myself, might pick me up a shopping center or two for a couple of bucks!...

 

[ROE]

So have you bought in ROE, or will you buy in.

What do you consider CNP fair value to be atm, and what do you base it on...????.

EDIT: It's been solddown since May of this year, from near doubletop at $10

SevenFX

No I'm staying away doesnt matter how cheap it look I been doing some digging and it doesnt look good.. check this article.../ could be aussie version of enron .. while people busy with CNP I bought a nice stake in WWA .. Boring business but I understand it and return exceptional value for their shareholders

Centro fails on continuous disclosure and debt disclosure
Crikey, Tuesday, December 18, 2007

By Stephen Mayne, failed shareholder activist who never attended a Centro AGM

Shares in Centro Properties Group fell from $5.70 to $1.36 yesterday. This morning they hit a low of 42c before stabilising at 76c by midday as 130 million shares changed hands – meaning that the company worth $4.7 billion last Thursday is now worth just $630 million.

And while the broader Australian stock market followed Wall Street down another 2% in morning trade, the contagion effect has stabilised as shares in Valad and Goodman both recovered marginally, although Westfield tumbled another 59c to $18.98 as investors start to get nervous about the value of its huge portfolio of US malls.

The market clearly believes the Centro management company is stuffed and it will be the lenders owed $18 billion, plus the frozen wholesale co-investors in the shopping centres who will get first crack at Centro's 124 centres, 67 of which in the US are reportedly already on the market.

When a group is geared at 60% on inflated valuations, there isn't a lot of margin for error, so the game now becomes how much of the nominal $8 billion of equity can be salvaged.



Continuous disclosure laws are meant to avoid such unprecedented shocks and they have clearly failed Australian investors who have collectively dropped about $5 billion of their $1 trillion of super in Centro.

The big question is how Centro Properties Group could release this profit statement on 9 August. Go to page 11 and you'll see a table claiming it had no current interest-bearing liabilities and $3.6 billion of non-current debt.

This changed on September 18 when the annual report was released and page 34 disclosed $1.1 billion of current interest bearing liabilities and $2.5 billion of longer term debt.

Contrast that with page 19 of this presentation yesterday which revealed the following debt maturity profile for the parent company:

Two months: $2.7 billion

12 months: $1.2 billion

More than 12 months: $2.8 billion

There is a little asterisk with the note "includes shares of US JV debt", which might explain the extra $3.2 billion of total debt not disclosed at all in the earlier statements, let alone correctly as either current or non-current.

Then, of course, there is the separate $5.6 billion of debt in Centro Retail Trust, which is somewhat more than the $1.44 billion they disclosed in the annual report sent out a few weeks ago.

However, this was before the merger with Centro America Shopping Trust was approved by unit holders on 12 October and it was clearly debt laden after the two big US acquisitions, Heritage and New Deal, over the past 18 months.

All of this looks like a pretty clear cut case of inaccurate market disclosure of debt. Wasn't that at the heart of Enron's problems?

 

[waz]

Further to that, assuming i have the numbers roughly correct, lets use CBA as example , 13pc stake = 650m loss, CBA last years profit was like 4.5b - so like equivalent of 15pc of last years profit gone in one foul swoop ?, scary stuff.

CBA arnt using their own money to buy shares in CNP, CBA invest on behalf of its funds, namely Colonial First State.

So its CFS which has lost 650mil, not CBA, which in other words means people like you and me who have super accounts.

The banks are investing using our money that we give them, not their own.

Whether you like it or not, there is a very likely chance that if you have any of your super money in Australian shares, then you are an investor in CNP.

 

[Fed23]

Has anyone bought into this share?

As a newbie, I see massive amounts of trading but dont know to whom. All I know is they were 42c yesterday now they are up to 94c, doubled their SP.

 

[The Mint Man]

Has anyone bought into this share?

As a newbie, I see massive amounts of trading but dont know to whom. All I know is they were 42c yesterday now they are up to 94c, doubled their SP.

This was to be expected, when a SP loses like it has over the last week it is bound to bounce back, often refered to as a dead cat bounce. Often the upwards movement is due to day traders gettng in for a quick buck and as you can see anyone who got in yesterday has doubled up.

To any centro investors, I feel for ya. I was in BDG when it droped more than 50% in 1 day.

Cheers

 

[J.C.]

I jumped on these this morning at 0.90 and they just hit 1.14... in only an hour thats great news, hope it keeps up!!

 

[ROE]

Good luck to those who bought shares in this thing when they are low
but they are too risky for me

 

[Nyden]

I'm kicking myself for not buying these yesterday
At the same time though, I would be double kicking myself if I had bought them, and they went down : If there's one thing my portfolio doesn't need, it's more red.

Still though, gosh, an 80% rise already..

 

[The Mint Man]

I'm kicking myself for not buying these yesterday
At the same time though, I would be double kicking myself if I had bought them, and they went down : If there's one thing my portfolio doesn't need, it's more red.

Still though, gosh, an 80% rise already..

Cant agree more with you there But even if you chucked 1K at it.... nice christmas money thats for sure

 

[surfingman]

DJ Australian Bks Have A$4 Billion Exposure To Centro - Report
19/12/2007 11:36AM AEST



MELBOURNE (Dow Jones)--Australian banks have a A$4 billion exposure to stricken retail property manager, Centro Properties Group (CNP.AU), including almost A$1.5 billion in unsecured loans, the Herald Sun newspaper reports Wednesday.

Commonwealth Bank of Australia (CBA.AU) has the most at risk, with a total exposure of A$1.3 billion of which around half is believed to be unsecured. and not including the large losses that its Colonial First State funds management unit has incurred, the newspaper says.

Australian and New Zealand Banking Group (ANZ.AU) and National Australia Bank Ltd. (NAB.AU) also are exposed, with ANZ standing to lose up to A$1.2 billion, with almost A$500 million in unsecured loans, and NAB A$1.1 billion, of which about A$300 million is not secured, the Herald Sun reports.

Centro's biggest lender is JPMorgan which has more than A$2 billion at stake, the newspaper says.

Centro is struggling to refinance A$3.9 billion of maturing debt, because problems in the U.S. subprime mortgage market have forced it to look for expensive short-term money in a risk-averse global market.


Newspaper Web site: http://www.news.com.au

-By Melbourne bureau; 61-2-8235-2950; djnews.sydney@dowjones.com


(END) Dow Jones Newswires

December 18, 2007 19:36 ET (00:36 GMT)

Copyright (c) 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.