Climate change another name for Weather

mellifuous · 29 August 2009

Yes, the utopic dream of everlasting life, of being born into adulthood to remain so for all time, and to enjoy the fruits and pleasures of our being.

But, alas, we are born, we live, and we die - like leaves that bloom in the spring and fall to the ground in autumn in order that they merge with the earth from whence they come.

Clouds swirl in unruly patterns, rain comes and goes, mountains erode, ice caps melt and reform, sun spots bathe the earth with unpredictable amounts of radiation, and in the middle of all of this the wrongs of this earth worship the gods of certainly.

Don't fool yourselves into thinking that 'modern' man's mind is so much different from those Mayans who thought sacrificing virgins would appease the gods.

The 'circle game' - the only constant is change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9XPIvZC0s&feature=related

Thank goodness we don't sacrifice virgins anymore - but, if there is talk about building pyramids, run for the boonies...!

Smurf1976 · 29 August 2009

More rain. More floods. And now it's damn cold as well. Even had to stop cloud seeding because it's raining too much...

So I'm off to the shops today to do my bit for energy consumption and at least warm myself up a bit, even if not the planet. Yep, I'm finally giving in and buying an electric blanket - I'm just so totally fed up with this shivering nonsense...

CO2? Well with all this rain we're back to 100% renewable electricity here in Tas (storages now over 40% and still rising). And my solar panels went up on the roof last monday - I'm sure they'll work nicely if the sun ever comes out...

Smurf1976 · 31 August 2009

MORE rain today and it's pouring down right now. Wettest winter since 1954 and I'm starting to comprehend the concept of cabin fever. Go to bed - it's raining. Wake up - it's raining. Middle of the day - yep, more rain.

282mm for 3 months which is massive rainfall by local standards. I'm starting to feel for those who live in places where that would be considered normal, or even dry. It must drive you mad...

drsmith · 31 August 2009

Several years ago I was in Hobart in September. The sun was out but it was still very cold.

Tasmania has had a wet winter but the rest of southern Australia would average out to about normal.

http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/...area=aus&period=3month&region=aus&time=latest

Smurf1976 · 31 August 2009

At least the farmers and the Hydro seem happy with the weather. A fortune falling from from the sky with crops and power stations all being very nicely watered.

I just wish I wasn't also being watered every time I go out the front door... It's better than 11 years of drought though so I won't complain too loudly.

Julia · 31 August 2009

Apologies if I've overlooked a more appropriate thread.
This is The Punch's view of the ETS:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles...x-on-food-so-wont-buy-the-ETS/?referrer=email

They are suggesting a dawning awareness amongst the punters of how this scheme will affect their weekly budgets.

It's Snake Pliskin · 2 September 2009

Don Harrold has an interview of a farmer regarding a cold summer this year. In Japan I concur it has been cold this summer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jiuIsTaWo0&feature=channel

mellifuous · 2 September 2009

Medieval England

Charles Dickens' England

The Thames froze over:-

Gee, the change from the greenery of Sherwood Forest to the snow of Dickens' time must have sent the whole of England into a prayer vigil (which clearly worked).

Do we really have to stock up on canned food?

Can't we just have a spot of blood letting?

("... To the Mayans, the ritual of blood-letting was the most effective way to appease their gods to bring good luck or plentiful crops. An example of this can be seen in the limestone relief Shield Jaguar and Lady Xoc found in Mexico dated around 725 C.E. where Lady Xoc pierces her tongue with a thorny rope. ...") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrifice_in_Maya_culture

Can't we just have a prayer vigil? Let's stick with our Egyptian heritage, let's not become barbarians.

Run - Run - Run ::: They're building pyramids -

No, we have a new way to appease the gods, an ETS.

Tax is the answer - no prayers to Egyptian gods and no blood letting - just pay money.

noco · 2 September 2009

Julia said:
Apologies if I've overlooked a more appropriate thread.
This is The Punch's view of the ETS:

They are suggesting a dawning awareness amongst the punters of how this scheme will affect their weekly budgets.

Great article Julia, it follows on from what I have been saying for ages, this ETS is just a TAX GRAB by Rudd.

I've E-Mailed my local MP and Malcolm Turnbull, encouraging them to follow the Nationals and many Liberal MP's by doing an 180 degree turn and fully reject Rudd's ETS and CPRS outright; even fight an election on it. The "Sceptic Party" are gaining momentum, but what else do they stand for?

I believe, Turnbull will gain considerably in the opinion polls if he had the fortitude to take this action.

More exposure must be given to this idiotic fallacy that an ETS will lower CO2 emmissions!

basilio · 2 September 2009

The melting of Greenland.

In Greenland it's now the science season for glaciologists, seismologists and climatologists. They are all scurrying around examining just how quickly the glaciers are peeling off the Greenland mainland.

It's a long story but worth the effort. If you are interested in exactly what is happening in Greenland and the implications for the rest of world (as distinct from the repeated assertion that IT JUST ISN"T HAPPENING) it's worth setting aside 15 minutes or so to read and consider. In fact the current scientific observations completely override all previous estimations.

Before their first expedition, Hamilton and his colleague Leigh Stearns, from the University of Kansas, used satellite data to plan exactly where they would land on a glacier.

"When we arrived there was no glacier to be seen. It was way up the fjord," he says. "We thought we'd made some stupid goof with the co-ordinates, but we were where we were supposed to be." It was the glacier that was in the wrong place. A vast expanse had melted away.

When Hamilton and Stearns processed their first measurements of the glacier's speed, they thought they had made another mistake. They found it was marching forwards at a greater pace than a glacier had ever been observed to flow before. "We were blown away because we realised that the glaciers had accelerated not just by a little bit but by a lot," he says. The three glaciers they studied had abruptly increased the speed by which they were transmitting ice from the ice sheet into the ocean.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/01/sermilik-fjord-greenland-global-warming

Smurf1976 · 2 September 2009

noco said:
More exposure must be given to this idiotic fallacy that an ETS will lower CO2 emmissions!

That outcome was painfully obvious before the average Australian had heard of ETS, CPRS or Kevin Rudd.

Hawke was PM back then, Kylie Minogue was a supposed one hit wonder the radio stations didn't like, it was the Bicentenial year and Expo was on in Brisbane. Yep, 1988...

The whole thing has been understood for more than two decades now. Shifting emissions from Australia to another country doesn't help the planet, it just increases wealth and domestic consumption in that other country, plus also increasing shipping, thus leading to total emissions going up rather than down. Nothing new here, apart from the fact that a few more people seem to be waking up to the fact.

mellifuous · 2 September 2009

http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=A0CF47FB-237D-9F22-E80D57976488F91C

"... The Planetary Air Leak; May 2009; Scientific American Magazine; by David C. Catling and Kevin J. Zahnle; 8 Page(s)

One of the most remarkable features of the solar system is the variety of planetary atmospheres. Earth and Venus are of comparable size and mass, yet the surface of Venus bakes at 460 degrees Celsius under an ocean of carbon dioxide that bears down with the weight of a kilometer of water. Callisto and Titanplanet-size moons of Jupiter and Saturn, respectivelyare nearly the same size, yet Titan has a nitrogen-rich atmosphere thicker than our own, whereas Callisto is essentially airless. What causes such extremes? If we knew, it would help explain why Earth teems with life while its planetary siblings appear to be dead. Knowing how atmospheres evolve is also essential to determining which planets beyond our solar system might be habitable.

A planet can acquire a gaseous cloak in many ways: it can release vapors from its interior, it can capture volatile materials from comets and asteroids when they strike, and its gravity can pull in gases from interplanetary space. But planetary scientists have begun to appreciate that the escape of gases plays as big a role as the supply. Although Earths atmosphere may seem as permanent as the rocks, it gradually leaks back into space. The loss rate is currently tiny, only about three kilograms of hydrogen and 50 grams of helium (the two lightest gases) per second, but even that trickle can be significant over geologic time, and the rate was probably once much higher. As Benjamin Franklin wrote, A small leak can sink a great ship. The atmospheres of terrestrial planets and outer-planet satellites we see today are like the ruins of medieval castlesremnants of riches that have been subject to histories of plunder and decay. The atmospheres of smaller bodies are more like crude forts, poorly defended and extremely vulnerable. ..."

What will we do?
Stop the leak?
Worry about the melting ice caps?
???

I know, pay tax!!!!!!

drsmith · 2 September 2009

Earth's atmosphere is protected from the solar wind by a magnetic field whereas the atmospheres of Mars and Venus are not.

Venus could do with a little atmospheric reduction.

mellifuous · 3 September 2009

from the article:-

".... Although Earth seems comparatively unscathed by escape, that will change. Today hydrogen escape is limited to a trickle because the principal hydrogen-bearing gas, water vapor, condenses in the lower atmosphere and rains back to the surface. Bout our sun is slowly brightening at about 10% every billion years. That is imperceptibly slow in a human timescale but will be the devastating over geologic time. As the sun brightens and out atmosphere warms, the atmosphere will get wetter, and the trickle of hydrogen escape will become a torrent.

This process is expected to become important when the sun is 10% brighter - that is, in a billion years - and it will take another billion years or so to desiccate our planet's oceans. Earth will become a desert planet, with at most a shrunken polar cap and only traces of precious liquid. After another two billion years, the sun will beat down on our planet so mercilessly even the polar oases will fail, the last liquid water will evaporate and the greenhouse effect will grow strong enough to melt rock. Earth will have followed Venus into barren lifelessness. ..."

No problems, the human race has plenty of time to find another abode.

But, for those of us who have lived and live today, 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust, oblivion to oblivion'

noco · 3 September 2009

basilio said:
The melting of Greenland.

In Greenland it's now the science season for glaciologists, seismologists and climatologists. They are all scurrying around examining just how quickly the glaciers are peeling off the Greenland mainland.

It's a long story but worth the effort. If you are interested in exactly what is happening in Greenland and the implications for the rest of world (as distinct from the repeated assertion that IT JUST ISN"T HAPPENING) it's worth setting aside 15 minutes or so to read and consider. In fact the current scientific observations completely override all previous estimations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/01/sermilik-fjord-greenland-global-warming

Basilio, a very intense and interesting article on Greenland and yes Climate Change is real, but I do not believe it is caused by CO2 emmissions as stated, but rather by the intensity of the SUN.

The article fails to mention some 1000 years ago the Vikings migrated to Greenland because they could graze cattle and grow crops, when at that time, Greenland was green; hence the name Greenland.

Some 500 years later, it once again iced over and became useless for cattle and crops.

Currently, the residents of Greenland are rubbing their hands together for a multi billion dollar economy created by the fact they are now able once again to graze cattle and grow their crops for export.

The modelling by some of these so called experts have already been proven wrong, so it beggars beyond belief how acurate their predictions will be in the future.

So, the ice has melted in Greenland over milleniums and has been replenished under the right conditions. I can't believe the Earth would have been troubled too much by industrial CO2 emmissions in those times, but rather by natural phenomenals such as volcanos and bush fires.

basilio · 7 September 2009

Armed forces may be the agents of climate change

Click to expand...

THE oceans are getting warmer, coral reefs are increasingly under threat, Arctic ice is dropping into the sea. July was the warmest month in 130 years of testing ocean temperatures. Who are we going to call?

The admirals and the generals. It appears that the US military is as concerned about the fate of the Earth as the man and woman on Civvy Street. And, as history has shown, what troubles the US generals troubles the rest of the world.

Actually what is causing the hairs on the back of their necks to stand up is the effect climate change might have on America's national security. The depths of that concern emerged recently in a hearing of the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations into climate change and global security.

The example to surface at that hearing by several speakers was a speck in the ocean, a place that has been described as a stationary aircraft carrier. Yet the tiny reef of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean may well hold part of the answer in getting the US, and therefore the rest of the world, to act against climate change.

Diego Garcia is a 50 kilometre-long strip of jungle and sand that barely rises above the waves: seven metres at its highest point, but mostly just one metre. It is also of crucial importance to America's military as a naval and airforce base for South Asia. It is owned by the British ”” who threw off the native Ilois people and transplanted them to Mauritius to accommodate UK and US military personnel ”” who lease it to the US. The Ilois have exhausted every legal avenue in Britain and Europe to win the right to return, but that's a story of conquest not climate.

The change in the climate just might do what the Soviets couldn't do and what terrorists cannot do: that is, sink the military facility. To keep the base, and therefore American security, afloat the ocean must not rise. The generals want the climate to stay the way it is or was, actually, about a generation ago. They don't want natural catastrophes because that would lead to power and hegemonic catastrophes. They don't want wars based on mass migrations of people, social dislocation or depleting resources.

It's all a bit surreal. Put the national interest as the primary reason in doing something about climate change, instead of the rainforests, for instance, and governments may feel the need to act more swiftly and decisively. If they don't the nation becomes vulnerable and its grip of global power becomes as slippery as the mooring ropes at Diego Garcia. It is a hard concept for anyone with a non-militaristic world view to grapple, but look at the greater good. Clearly the fate of the Earth is not much having effect on the world's politicians. Despite the rhetoric, the promise of developments from Copenhagen in December seems to be deflating by the day.

But this might help: "Addressing the consequences of changes in the Earth's climate is not simply about saving polar bears or preserving the beauty of mountain glaciers. Climate change is a threat to our national security. Taking it head on is about preserving our way of life." That was Vice-Admiral Lee Gunn, retired United States Navy, and now president of the American Security Project, addressing the Senate hearing.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/ar...-of-climate-change-20090904-fbdp.html?page=-1

Well it's a shame that the US Military doesn't take proper notice of this forum(and others like it)

For some reason they seem to accept the collective knowledge of almost all climate scientists as well as the objective reality of the unprecedented rapid warming of the earth.

But hell the Generals are just a bunch of pinkos these days.

Buddy · 11 September 2009

So here we go again...............

"AUSTRALIA is under pressure to pledge hundreds of millions of dollars a year to an international fund to help developing countries adapt to climate change, after the European Union revealed it would be willing to chip in up to $25 billion a year by 2020."
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26056609-11949,00.html

I always knew this whole issue is about TAX and wealth re-distribution, not correcting any climate change.

So the Brussel's syncophants, along with their likeminded chardonnay sipping socialist mates in OZ and elsewhere, are bleeding their hearts to the "developing countries". What a crok of sh**. How on earth is this going to rectify any possible damage from climate change? All it will achieve is making the corrupt officials in developing countries more wealthy. More on the gravy train, as they say. The fact is that these countries, or should I say basket cases, rely on rich countries already. It's called 3rd world aid. Now they have found an excuse to get more, more, more, more, more.

If these nutters were really serious about reducing CO2 emmission they would be spending money where it really counts - in the high emmitting countries. Why on earth would you spend money in countries that have negligible emmissions? Any money that comes out of this new tax should be spent on developing technologies, renewable electricity generation, nuclear power plants, energy reduction and efficiency programs. Who cares about the 3rd world, they are all going to be dead anyway unless the problem is fixed. That is, if we are to believe the climate change alarmists.

Garpal Gumnut · 11 September 2009

noco said:
Basilio, a very intense and interesting article on Greenland and yes Climate Change is real, but I do not believe it is caused by CO2 emmissions as stated, but rather by the intensity of the SUN.

The article fails to mention some 1000 years ago the Vikings migrated to Greenland because they could graze cattle and grow crops, when at that time, Greenland was green; hence the name Greenland.

Some 500 years later, it once again iced over and became useless for cattle and crops.

Currently, the residents of Greenland are rubbing their hands together for a multi billion dollar economy created by the fact they are now able once again to graze cattle and grow their crops for export.

The modelling by some of these so called experts have already been proven wrong, so it beggars beyond belief how acurate their predictions will be in the future.

So, the ice has melted in Greenland over milleniums and has been replenished under the right conditions. I can't believe the Earth would have been troubled too much by industrial CO2 emmissions in those times, but rather by natural phenomenals such as volcanos and bush fires.

I fail to see what Greenland has to do with weather in Australia.

It really is a plot by the left to apply a Global Tax and then distribute it as they wish.

People will wake up eventually to this tax grab.

gg

$20shoes · 11 September 2009

Some amazing and frankly distressing footage of ice flows over the last two decades. Set your Controls for the heart of the Sun people...

http://blog.ted.com/2009/09/timelapse_proof.php

Garpal Gumnut · 11 September 2009

$20shoes said:
Some amazing and frankly distressing footage of ice flows over the last two decades. Set your Controls for the heart of the Sun people...

http://blog.ted.com/2009/09/timelapse_proof.php

Show that to the Vikings mate.

Maudling videos do not a proof make.

Its been happening for eons.

Capt.Cook wouldn't have set sail for Australia if he'd been relying on pissant proof as that.

gg

Climate change another name for Weather

mellifuous

Smurf1976

Smurf1976

drsmith

Smurf1976

Julia

In Memoriam

It's Snake Pliskin

mellifuous

Attachments

noco

basilio

Smurf1976

mellifuous

drsmith

mellifuous

noco

basilio

Buddy

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel

$20shoes

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel

Climate change another name for Weather

In Memoriam

Attachments

Ross Island Hotel

Ross Island Hotel

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency