Climate change another name for Weather

[2020hindsight]

I beg your pardon? You can't read.

You can't make a consistent argument more like it .

 

[jeflin]

The Kyoto Protocol laid down firm guidelines for countries to achieve "stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere."

US is the only rouge industrialized nation holding out after Australia ratified the agreement. Not surprising that George Bush cares little about destroying the earth to protect the greedy capitalists.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071203-AP-aus-kyoto.html

 

[Calliope]

US is the only rouge industrialized nation holding out after Australia ratified the agreement.

China still has a fairly rouge complexion.

 

[spooly74]

I wonder.....

The role of scientists has been to work out by how much and what the effect might be. And along the way scientists have come to learn about the many other effects on the earths climate and teased out their impact. In the end their understanding is that the biggest cause of the current global warming is excess manmade production of CO2. And if it continues at the current projection... well we are cooked

CO2 in the atmosphere in 1900 ~ 280ppm
CO2 in the atmosphere today ~380 ppm

IPCC have a forcing of 3 degrees per doubling of CO2. Worth noting that the IPCC don't do any scientific research themselves, they correlate the results from scientists around the world ....cherry pick if you like

Log2(380/280) x 3C = 1.32C

Now, have we observed an increase of 1.32C since industrial times?

NO!

2020 and others. I'm going to work out a proper example here on how a community (eg an Australian state or territory) would actually cut CO2 by x% by a given date. I think the results will be interesting to say the least. I'll focus on energy-related emissions only to keep it simple. Does anyone have a % cut and a date in mind for this exercise?

Agree with the prof ...Use 20% reduction by 2020.
Will be very interesting Smurf ... cheers.

 

[skint]

...and in one sentence you expose the whole hypocrisy of the AGW religion.

Example - Al Bore:

Still lives with an enormous carbon footprint and has admitted that he is raking it in off the back of the CC scare.

There is an easy way to lessen the impact on the planet in whatever form is actually factual (i.e. NOT co2 induced GW)

DO LESS!

Travel less
Eat less
Own less
Package less
Breed less
Build smaller houses
Walk instead of drive

I don't see the GW scammers doing that.

I do them doing MORE of the above. Last time I was lectured on GW was as Sainsbury's by a woman who had driven to the Supermarket in her BMW X5, from her rather large centrally heated and energy hungry house, from behind her trolly full of te most elaborately packaged items she could buy.

Pullleeeeze, such obnoxious and poisonous duplicity from you people is truly sickening. Come back when you can walk the talk; until then, frac off and let the truly environmentally conscious do the real work.

What a revelation! You've found evidence of hypocricy and duplicity in those that appreciate the need for action on climate change. May I cordially welcome you to the real world. I too, could name a great number of people who behave in a similarly hypocritical manner and others again that practice what they preach. Homogenising those that see sense in erring on the side of the vast majority of climatologists may help simplify things in your own mind, but unfortunately makes very little sense. Indeed, being able to dichotomise people into definitive personality types on pretty much any mainstream issue would be rare. For example, as groups, and with a large enough sample size, you would find many differences between Labor and Liberal voters, but as individuals, they're obviously many and varied, given we have about 21 million people in the country.
The main thing to be taken from your post is that whilst some individuals, companies and government bodies may alter their behaviour of their own accord, there are a great many others whose behaviour changes only in response to consequences such as cost and legislation. A while back there was a push to "Buy Australian". Many agreed with the notion but most went invariably for the product they deemed to be of better value. Clearly, we have a need for a legislative and pricing framework on climate change, and the sooner the better. If you happen to be one of those doomsday scenarists that catastrophise addressing the problem in a meaningful way, I'll save a can of soup for you.

 

[MR.]

Clearly, we have a need for a legislative and pricing framework on climate change, and the sooner the better.

Must be done ASAP. But that is still short term. The only real way to solve this problem is less people. I have strongly believed it for a long time that caping the amount of new borns world wide will solve so many problems.

However we must have continued "wealth creation" we must grow grow grow. I don't agree. Some things just have to be done.

Reduced our consumption in electricity from 29 KWH's per day down to just under 20 KWH's per day. It has now averaged that for a year now. Light globes, turning the air conditioner off at the switchboard has saved most of the power. At the end of the day it doesn't make much of a difference because more consumers are born. It's just prolonging it all.

 

[inenigma]

Has anyone noticed the reception of Digital TV during a storm.....

Global Warming. More Storms. Less TV Reception....

More reasons to tell the spoilt daughter Foxtel doesn't work anymore......

 

[2020hindsight]

The only real way to solve this problem is less people.

No point in martyrdom not having kids ourselves ... since Bob Geldof's first LIVE AID Concert 24 years ago, Ethiopia's population has doubled
And there has been zilch education of African women generally about contraception / birth control.

Mind you, each Aussie makes about the same CO2e as 23 (app) Ethiopians.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2428637.htm

ANDREW GEOGHEGAN: A quarter of a century ago Ethiopia became a byword for famine.

(Bob Geldof song plays)

Images of children dying of starvation prompted Bob Geldof to launch Live Aid. Since then Ethiopia's population has doubled and now world food prices are soaring. Opposition politician Gebru Asrat says Ethiopia has failed to learn from the past.

GEBRU ASRAT: To see another famine in this country after 24 years is a sad thing where millions are starving.

VALERIE BROWNING: Most families are down to two meals a day. Some are down to one.

 

[Naked shorts]

Hopefully the crazy storms/rain in Brisbane keep up. Im none to keen to drink my own sh*t.

http://news.theage.com.au/national/bligh-signals-backflips-on-water-dam-20081125-6gly.html

Currently if the dams get below 40%, recycled water gets put into the system.


CO2 Scrubber Sucks Up Emissions From Cars, Home Heating
http://gizmodo.com/5057860/co2-scrubber-sucks-up-emissions-from-cars-home-heating

I would love to hook these things up to some solar cells.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

What amuses me is how the Elites blame hardworking law abiding western folk for their scientific concept of an unproven future weather armageddon.

They then move on predictably to over population. Then some elitist git like Bob Geldof of all people gets dragged into the argument to prove a point.

The same folk who brought us the falsifiable global warmening also brought us western guilt for the famines of the third world.

The final arseabout argument they then give is that blame rests with us for war and famine anywhere on this earth.

Wake up and get a life.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

What amuses me is how the Elites blame hardworking law abiding western folk for their scientific concept of an unproven future weather armageddon.

They then move on predictably to over population. Then some elitist git like Bob Geldof of all people gets dragged into the argument to prove a point.

The same folk who brought us the falsifiable global warmening also brought us western guilt for the famines of the third world.

The final arseabout argument they then give is that blame rests with us for war and famine anywhere on this earth.

Wake up and get a life.

gg

You're right gg,
let's stick to the people who have vested interests - particularly clumsy greedy capitalists who could give a sh*t about the future of the planet

PS so , in your opinion, overpopulation is not a problem ?
answer truly now - lol
don't change the subject with a lot of claptrap.

PS I've had a day devoted to Zen and the art of Mazda maintenance ... needless to say, I could have taught some sailors some new swear words (as much as I love Buddhism)

 

[MR.]

What are you smoking up there?

So perhaps then global warming comes about from the unsubstantiated hot air extinguished from a Garbled GumNUT arguing for the sake of an argument! Truly I do value my time more than this. Over population is not just a predictable response. Wakeup, it ‘s the problem and (for your sake) "any" climate change is just a remnant of this disease on top of forest clearing, rapid extinction of animals and water and air pollution.
The disease is too many humans.

Unfortunately us educated western societies can identify this problem but nothing will be done. Like financial stimulus packages, we just keep making patches and put our efforts into last minute endeavours to save some endangered rodents.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

What amuses me is how the Elites blame hardworking law abiding western folk for their scientific concept of an unproven future weather armageddon.

They then move on predictably to over population. Then some elitist git like Bob Geldof of all people gets dragged into the argument to prove a point.

The same folk who brought us the falsifiable global warmening also brought us western guilt for the famines of the third world.

The final arseabout argument they then give is that blame rests with us for war and famine anywhere on this earth.

Wake up and get a life.

gg

You're right gg,
let's stick to the people who have vested interests - particularly clumsy greedy capitalists who could give a sh*t about the future of the planet

PS so , in your opinion, overpopulation is not a problem ?
answer truly now - lol
don't change the subject with a lot of claptrap.

PS I've had a day devoted to Zen and the art of Mazda maintenance ... needless to say, I could have taught some sailors some new swear words (as much as I love Buddhism)

What are you smoking up there?

So perhaps then global warming comes about from the unsubstantiated hot air extinguished from a Garbled GumNUT arguing for the sake of an argument! Truly I do value my time more than this. Over population is not just a predictable response. Wakeup, it ‘s the problem and (for your sake) "any" climate change is just a remnant of this disease on top of forest clearing, rapid extinction of animals and water and air pollution.
The disease is too many humans.

Unfortunately us educated western societies can identify this problem but nothing will be done. Like financial stimulus packages, we just keep making patches and put our efforts into last minute endeavours to save some endangered rodents.

Overpopulation will revert to a mean population sufficient to be fed by the resources available.

Famine and disease have predictably kept the world in equilibrium.

They will continue to do so.

HIV is rampant in Africa. Until 3 months ago the President and Health Minister of South Africa denied it was due to a virus.

Look at Zimbabwe. Famine there is a result of misguided dogma.

Ethiopia, Darfur and Somalia are basket cases notwithstanding that git Bob Geldof's ministrations..

The Elites would like to salve their consciences by saving everyone and then limiting the population via birth control which has been proven never to work.

People procreate.

Resources are limited.

You guys are living in an elitist collective divorced from the realities of everyday life.

Go visit some of these famine and war wracked countries , and then comment.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

African populations tend to grow at about 3% per annum.
When you say it fast, it doesn't sound that serious.
But then you realise that Ethiopan population has doubled in 24 years since the Live Aid stuff (rule of 72, 1.03^24 = 2, or doubled) you realise it's a catastophe.

Their population builds up, then crashes in appalling misery - starvation of infants etc.

There's no need for the famines to be as devastating as they are (not saying they can be avoided of course) - if only the population was a bit better educated on contraception etc .

Elitism? - what the hell are you talking about gg.
Since when is wanting people to rise out of their ignorance called elitism?.

 

[wayneL]

Just occasionally, some sense comes from the MSM... http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24723425-11949,00.html

Written by John Stapleton, The Australian
Saturday, 29 November 2008
cold snap

EUROPE is shivering through an extreme cold snap. One of the coldest winters in the US in more than 100 years is toppling meteorological records by the dozen, and the Arctic ice is expanding. Even Australia has been experiencing unseasonable snow.

But the stories about global warming have not stopped, not for a second.

In May last year, The Sydney Morning Herald breathlessly reported that climate change had reduced the Southern Ocean's ability to soak up carbon dioxide, claiming that as a result global warming would accelerate even faster than previously thought.

The story was picked up and repeated in a number of different journals around the region.

But this week the CSIRO suggested the exact opposite. "The new study suggests that Southern Ocean currents, and therefore the Southern Ocean's ability to soak up carbon dioxide, have not changed in recent decades," it said. This time the story got no coverage in the SMH, and was run on the ABC's website as evidence the Southern Ocean was adapting to climate change.

the story is being pointed out as an example of media bias on global warming. Critics argue that the ABC and the Fairfax media are the worst offenders.

"The ABC and the Fairfax press rarely provide an opportunity for global warming sceptics to put their view," Mr Windschuttle said. "The science is not settled.

"We are seeing an increasing number of people with impeccable scientific backgrounds questioning part or whole of the story. I don't believe the ABC has been reflecting the genuine diversity of the debate.

Bob Carter of James Cook University, one of the world's best-known climate change sceptics, said there was no doubt Windschuttle was correct.

"With very few exceptions, press reporters commenting on global warming are either ignorant of the science matters involved, or wilfully determined to propagate warming hysteria because that fits their personal world view, or are under editorial direction to focus the story around the alarmist headline grab -- and often all three," Professor Carter said.

National Climate Centre former head William Kininmonth said coverage of global warming had been hysterical and was getting worse, with a large public relations effort inundating the media with information from the alarmist side.

 

[numbercruncher]

Both sides of this debate shift from " climate change " to " Global Warming " or vice versa and it makes for frustrating discussion.

Just in that piece you write there Wayne shuffles betwen the two a few times ....


I for one would debate that climate change is occurring but not neccesarily warming ....

Seems a Global recession should slow down our polluting ways though

 

[wayneL]

Both sides of this debate shift from " climate change " to " Global Warming " or vice versa and it makes for frustrating discussion.

Just in that piece you write there Wayne shuffles betwen the two a few times ....


I for one would debate that climate change is occurring but not neccesarily warming ....

Seems a Global recession should slow down our polluting ways though

Climate Change is a term invented to cover the GWers @ss... so they can assign anthropegenic implications to cold events as well as warm events. Essentially the two terms are interchangeable for the IPCC zealots.

However, climate change is a completely natural phenomenon. Mayan civilization was wiped out by climate change, well before man found oil. The Viking settlements in Greenland also wiped out by climate change a thousand years ago.

As the IPCC hypothesis has utterly failed to be able to predict weather trends, it doesn't even qualify as a theory, it remains as hypothesis. But the fact of biased IPCC cherry picking of available studies actually disqualifies it as science. It's politics only.

Let's focus on real environmental issues that if addressed, will alleviate any real co2 concerns as a byproduct much more effectively.

 

[wayneL]

You can't make a consistent argument more like it .

...and let's make any ad hominem carping based on fact, rather than puerile straw man mis-truths and other logical fallacies.

 

[billhill]

Climate Change is a term invented to cover the GWers @ss...

I always thought the term was chosen by governments because it sounded less serious then global warming.

 

[2020hindsight]

I always thought the term was chosen by governments because it sounded less serious then global warming.

Climate Change = the symptom, GW = the cause.
example - with nett global warming, the gulf stream will probably slow down - Europe (UK Scandinavia) will get less warming - they will cool down, US will heat up.

Climate Change only sounds less serious if you haven't read about some of the things that will happen