Climate change another name for Weather

[Pat]

You do what you feel is right for your ideology, the life you want to lead and being true to yourself. People are dynamic as is the world and conclusions change based on information and how each interprets it. I have children do you? I can't change the world, but I can do what I feel is right to lessen the impact in my own small ways. My daughter is aware and kids process information well. Giving them critical analytical skills to question what they see and impact their future is essential. I am amazed at the amount of people who use plastic bags and bin them. Just a thought and simple use of a recycle bag can make a difference.

Thank you for your advise on the motorbike thread, this is of my move to use less petrol.

I don't believe in electric cars yet, what’s the point of recharging batteries from electricity from another polluting source, just transferring pollution.
Honda are working on some amazing technology with hydrogen few years away.

I agree 100% green08, being green... is the way to go.
No kids for me. Though I was taught to be concious of my world as I was growing up.... at home and school. Education is almost everything IMO.

Do you know how much electricity it takes to produce Hydrogen? There is plenty of H20 around but we need to separate the O from the H2 to burn it.

IMO H2 is a substitution for oil.

I hope we can stop using coal and gas to generate electricity in the near future.

 

[Green08]

Do you know how much electricity it takes to produce Hydrogen? There is plenty of H20 around but we need to separate the O from the H2 to burn it.

IMO H2 is a substitution for oil.

I hope we can stop using coal and gas to generate electricity in the near future.

Yes acutely aware of how much energy especially coal would be needed to separate the o from h2. The disasterous effects that would occur.

However, they are using solar power it's obviously in model stage but they showed I think it was discovery channel, that this proto type on a small tank of hydrogen can go over 300 kms! They know the problem is getting enough solar panels. Fully support this type of initiative as - like a thread- new ideas come up, agreements, collaborations. Look at Fibreforce in the US. Have a material 12 times stronger than steel and a fraction of the weight of steel.

People are out there doing amazing things, bravo to them! for taking the risk in the light of negativity.

 

[Pat]

People are out there doing amazing things, bravo to them! for taking the risk in the light of negativity.

Did you see the show on discovery.. or... the history channel "Who killed the electric car"?

I miss my Foxtel and my doco's. We recently scrapped it as our monies are better elsewhere.... more beer

 

[Wysiwyg]

PS - getting back to more "normal" action on GW/CC - (reduction of CO2 through carbon trading schemes etc ) - some brilliant side benefits with the global effort - slowing the felling of forests ( the lungs of the planet), reforestation, animal habitat, etc etc . Support it for that if nothing else Support Copenhagen ! - When next will you get the ears of the ENTIRE WORLD to act on ANYTHING - so it's not perfect in your view - accept it as near enough - a step in the right direction, etc.

"one small step for mankind, one giant leap for the other co-habitants of this planet" etc

Back in September was the peak of the Ozone hole size.The fifth largest ever recorded.Unfortunately there isn`t any 1000 year old data on the ozone hole to compare but I would think that its size now is man made.

The ozone hole is a region of exceptionally depleted ozone in the stratosphere over the Antarctic that occurs at the beginning of Southern Hemisphere spring (August) and typically reaches its maximum extent in late September or early October.

Collectively we shall make changes as the damage reports worsen in the future years.Maybe when it reaches South America or New Zealand.Oops, off on my third person view again when we (I) are contributors by default.

 

[2020hindsight]

Back in September was the peak of the Ozone hole size.The fifth largest ever recorded.Unfortunately there isn`t any 1000 year old data on the ozone hole to compare but I would think that its size now is man made.

Collectively we shall make changes as the damage reports worsen in the future years.Maybe when it reaches South America or New Zealand.Oops, off on my third person view again when we (I) are contributors by default.

wys, Agree - no question it's man made , as you say.

http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm

Chloroflourocarbons were first created in 1928 as non-toxic, non-flamable refrigerants, and were first produced commercially in the 1930's by DuPont. ...

In 1974 M.J.Molina and F.S.Rowland published a laboratory study demonstrating the ability of CFC's to catalytically breakdown Ozone in the presence of high frequency UV light. Further studies estimated that the ozone layer would be depleted by CFC's by about 7% within 60yrs and based on such studies the US banned CFC's in aerosol sprays in 1978. Slowly various nations agreed to ban CFC's in aerosols but industry fought the banning of valuable CFC's in other applications.

Not banned altogether etc.

I noticed on weekend that Kiwis now have highest rate of melanomas.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1318360/2310064

At least we've acted and slowed it down I guess We're obviously not being rigourous enough about banning all CFCs.

... ozone depletion has been measured everywhere outside the tropics, and that it is, in fact, getting worse. in the middle latitudes (most of the populated world), ozone levels have fallen about 10% during the winter and 5% in the summer. Since 1979, they have fallen about 5% per decade when averaged over the entire year. Depletion is generally worse at higher latitudes, i.e. further from the Equator.

The severity of the ozone hole varies somewhat from year to year. These fluctuations are superimposed on a trend extending over the last three decades. The graphs below show these variations. The red bars indicate the largest area and the lowest minimum value.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Cooking the books - seems like anyone can do it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

 

[2020hindsight]

The "Other Recession" we seem to be determined to have ...
that of the glaciers ...

There are gonna be environmental refugees by the millions

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/24/2226285.htm

Mt Cook glacier melting away: scientists
Posted Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:40am AEST

Scientists in New Zealand say most of their country's largest glacier could melt away within the next 20 years.

The Tasman Glacier near Mount Cook is retreating by almost 200 metres a year.

Researchers who have been re-surveying the area say that rate is accelerating and could at least double in the years to come.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/02/2407916.htm

Chilean glacier will vanish in 50yrs: study
Posted Sun Nov 2, 2008 12:47pm AEDT
Chile's official water authority has warned that the Echaurren glacier near Santiago, which supplies the capital with 70 per cent of its water needs, could disappear in the next half century.

In a new report on Chile's glaciers the main water company - Direccion General de Aguas de Chile (DGA) - said the ice fields of Echaurren are receding up to 12 metres per year.

"These glaciers are vanishing," said Antonio Vergara of the DGA, who has worked on glacier research on the fields for 35 years.

likewise Himalayas, Antarctic etc

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/himalayan-glacial-melt

Expedition documents melting Himalayan glaciers
G8 meets as glaciers melt on World Environment Day
05 June 2007

China — Glaciers in the Himalayas provide the water source for one-sixth of humanity. Now that water source is threatened by climate change. As the temperature rises, these reservoirs of ice disappear. Guanli Wang, a journalist with China S&T, reports back after taking part in an expedition documenting how this is happening right before our eyes.

Dubbed the 'Third Pole', for having the largest concentration of glaciers outside the polar caps, the Himalayas boast 11 peaks over 8,000 metres (26,246 feet) and around 100 over 7,000 metres (22,966 feet).

Today is World Environment day, and this year's UN designated theme is "melting ice", making today sadly appropriate for telling the story of Himalayan ice. Scientists predict that 80 percent of these glaciers will disappear within 30 years if current warming rates are maintained.

Here's one trying to rebuild a Japanese coral reef that is 80% gone.
http://www.physorg.com/news146117038.html


http://www.physorg.com/news146117038.html

 

[Wysiwyg]

The "Other Recession" we seem to be determined to have ...
that of the glaciers ... likewise Himalayas, Antarctic etc

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/himalayan-glacial-melt

Hello, The images of the Halong and Middle Rongbuck glaciers in above site are strong examples.

The February 2007 release of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report on the science of climate change concluded, with a 90 percent certainty, that global warming is caused by human behaviour. The report galvanised the European Union to set a target of reducing carbon emissions by at least 20 percent from 1990 levels by 2020, and by 30 percent if other industrialised nations set similar targets.

Looks like it`s "other countries" that won`t/can`t ?? join the reduction program target for 2020.

My ma told me cousins of ours wants to have eight kids (3 already) and I tried to explain to her that the planet, with present pollution output of which we all contribute by being human, is being destoyed.

But with the over-consuming (mind) people, the tribe leaders will have to implement rules & regulations to turn this destruction of nature around.

One or two children per couple is a sustainable number.Why have more and ask ourselves why bring children into the world.This decision should be a personal (freedom/human rights etc.) choice and selfishness put aside.

Can`t stop the wheel (nature might) but we can leave less of a rut.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Are the recent Gold Coast storms and flooding due to weather or global warmening?

I'd like to know to better trade my SUN shares.

I generally buy in storms and sell in quiet weather, but am unsure if I may be on the wrong track.

If its a warmening I'm going to go bust.

If its weather I'll keep on scalping.

I'd be most appreciative of any views.

gg

 

[Smurf1976]

I agree 100% green08, being green... is the way to go.
No kids for me. Though I was taught to be concious of my world as I was growing up.... at home and school. Education is almost everything IMO.

Do you know how much electricity it takes to produce Hydrogen? There is plenty of H20 around but we need to separate the O from the H2 to burn it.

IMO H2 is a substitution for oil.

I hope we can stop using coal and gas to generate electricity in the near future.

From just about every perspective it's better to use the coal or gas directly than to turn it into electricity then H2. Efficiency, environment, financial - all in favour of skipping the electricity and H2 step and just using it in the conventional manner in an engine etc.

As for stopping using coal and gas for electricity, it's technically very doable but faces truly massive resistance from established interests.

With the exception of a few owners of renewable generation (which with one exception have effectively zero political influence), I'm not aware of any significant company, political party or other group in Australia that promotes what would be needed to make the change. At best, some promote ideas that may produce a few % at best and thus don't threaten conventional power sources. At worst, they do nothing or actively oppose the development of viable alternatives to replace fossil fuels. So don't hold your breath waiting for cuts in coal or gas use.

As for the climate change issue itself, a great many people now have rather a lot of egg on their faces. "The drought is permanent due to climate change and will only get worse" they said. And they said it so often it was quoted word for word in the national media.

No doubt these people are aware of what's going on in SE Queensland. No matter what the cause, they've been proven absolutely wrong. And sadly, they've helped reduce the credibility of climate change science, and thus the possibility of the community supporting real action, through their ridiculous claims that have made them a laughing stock.

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. Just as those worried about peak oil are laughed at by people who point to past predictions of doom that turned out to be wrong, so the same will happen with climate change. Claims of evidence that are then disproven isn't helping the credibility of the cause - unless the cause is politics rather than genuine concern for the environment.

 

[Family_Guy]

Not sure about climate change, but i have seen a few cyclones in my time up north, but this vid from Brissy with the storms the other night is fairly close to the real thing.......only 6 or so hours shorter.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=skrnDGl1LxQ

 

[wayneL]

A couple of articles that caight my eye this month:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...A1YourView&xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

The world has never seen such freezing heat

By Christopher Booker
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 16/11/2008

A surreal scientific blunder last week raised a huge question mark about the temperature records that underpin the worldwide alarm over global warming. On Monday, Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), which is run by Al Gore's chief scientific ally, Dr James Hansen, and is one of four bodies responsible for monitoring global temperatures, announced that last month was the hottest October on record.

This was startling. Across the world there were reports of unseasonal snow and plummeting temperatures last month, from the American Great Plains to China, and from the Alps to New Zealand. China's official news agency reported that Tibet had suffered its "worst snowstorm ever". In the US, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration registered 63 local snowfall records and 115 lowest-ever temperatures for the month, and ranked it as only the 70th-warmest October in 114 years............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...1YourView&xml=/opinion/2008/11/23/do2310b.xml

Stubborn glaciers fail to retreat, awkward polar bears continue to multiply

By Christopher Booker
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 23/11/2008

Second only to the melting of the Arctic ice and those "drowning" polar bears, there is no scare with which the global warmists, led by Al Gore, more like to chill our blood than the fast-vanishing glaciers of the Himalayas, which help to provide water for a sixth of mankind. Recently one newspaper published large pictures to illustrate the alarming retreat in the past 40 years of the Rongbuk glacier below Everest. Indian meteorologists, it was reported, were warning that, thanks to global warming, all the Himalayan glaciers could have disappeared by 2035.

Yet two days earlier a report by the UN Environment Program had claimed that the cause of the melting glaciers was not global warming but the local warming effect of a vast "atmospheric brown cloud" hanging over that region, made up of soot particles from Asia's dramatically increased burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.
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Furthermore a British study published two years ago by the American Meteorological Society found that glaciers are only shrinking in the eastern Himalayas. Further west, in the Hindu Kush and the Karakoram, glaciers are "thickening and expanding".........

 

[prawn_86]

Well we are supposed to be going into summer next week (1st week of Dec), yet the weather here is still like winter.

We have had only about 1 - 2 weeks out of 12 of proper spring weather, the rest has been below 20c and cold and windy and drizzle. Normally in spring you get weeks on end of nice breeze and about 25 - 30 degrees. Not this year.

According to the forecast our first day of 'summer' is going to be 19 degrees

 

[Pat]

A couple of articles that caight my eye this month:

Nice to see you back on the climate change/GW threads... how was your ASF break?

 

[Pat]

Well we are supposed to be going into summer next week (1st week of Dec), yet the weather here is still like winter.

We have had only about 1 - 2 weeks out of 12 of proper spring weather, the rest has been below 20c and cold and windy and drizzle. Normally in spring you get weeks on end of nice breeze and about 25 - 30 degrees. Not this year.

According to the forecast our first day of 'summer' is going to be 19 degrees

Yep, there was plenty of snow in Thredbo on the weekend.
We had the hottest and coldest days in a few decades in October, on the NSW Central Coast that is. Weird and wacky weather...

Summer never starts till mid December, round here anyway.

 

[wayneL]

Nice to see you back on the climate change/GW threads... how was your ASF break?

It was good. I'm now refreshed.

We had snow in Cheltenham in OCTOBER this year. First time in decades apparently. On the weekend they had 5 inches of snow up in Lincolnshire.

Maybe we'll get a white Christmas this year. That would be nice.

 

[prawn_86]

Summer never starts till mid December, round here anyway.

I can remember this time last yr (exam time so i do remember it clearly) and it was above 30 just about every day. Definite shorts and t-shirt weather. Now im lucky to even get out of a jumper...

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

There is a very good editorial in the Weekend Australian today questioning the soothsaying of the Global Warmeners.

Seemingly a recent CSIRO paper has debunked much of the fears of the Warmeners about the health of the Southern Ocean and its ecology.

Does anyone have a copy of the paper?

I've been unable to find it online.

gg

 

[Calliope]

There is a very good editorial in the Weekend Australian today questioning the soothsaying of the Global Warmeners.

Seemingly a recent CSIRO paper has debunked much of the fears of the Warmeners about the health of the Southern Ocean and its ecology.

Does anyone have a copy of the paper?

I've been unable to find it online.

gg

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24722322-16382,00.html

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

There is a very good editorial in the Weekend Australian today questioning the soothsaying of the Global Warmeners.

Seemingly a recent CSIRO paper has debunked much of the fears of the Warmeners about the health of the Southern Ocean and its ecology.

Does anyone have a copy of the paper?

I've been unable to find it online.

gg

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24722322-16382,00.html

Sorry Calliope, I meant a copy of the CSIRO paper. Thanks anyway.

gg