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Climate change another name for Weather

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rederob said:
Utterly wrong: Most people through the ages believed the earth was domed until some clever folk (mathmeticians and astronomers) a few thousand years ago worked out it was round.
I suspect you have confused a flat earth with an earth that was the centre of the universe. Copernicus championed the heliocentric theory and appears to have been encouraged by the Church to progress his work at the time.
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It depended on what part of the world you lived in. At the time of the European middle ages most of the world's population believed the world was flat. Hence those who didn't believe were sceptics
 
rederob said:
If you had followed some of the issues raised you wouldn't need to ask.
Best you keep enjoying the weather and bathe yourself in a sea of ignorance.
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I will mate , I will,

Unlike all those poor bastards tortured over 2000 years for not quite believing in the correct dogma.

gg
 
Calliope said:
These scientists will either start working hard on mitigation, or be shown up as hypocrites.
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The IPCC published their first major report on "mitigation" in 1995, and followed it up again in 2001 and 2007.
Is it your practice to shoot first and ask questions later?
 
rederob said:
The IPCC published their first major report on "mitigation" in 1995, and followed it up again in 2001 and 2007.
Is it your practice to shoot first and ask questions later?
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Yep. Make my day.You call that working hard? It doesn't get much airing on this thread. I look forward to your change in direction towards mitigation.
 
rederob said:
???
Are you meaning the Inquisitions that took place less than a thousand years ago?
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No mate I'm talking 20, 10, 5 years ago.

Northern Ireland "Say the Hail Mary" A bullet if you did or a bullet if you didn't.

Kosovo, Rwanda, Palestine, Mumbai.

godbotherers once they get power follow a predictable route.

Not that GW will ever get there.

Because nobody believes it.

gg
 
basilio said:
It's interesting isn't it. It is hard to appreciate just how selective you have to be to dismiss the evidence for climate change. You have to climb over a mountain of evidence to pick up a crumb: a crumb which then disintegrates in your palm. You must ignore an entire field of science, the statements of the world’s most important scientific institutions, and thousands of papers published in the foremost scientific journals. And if you are someone like Christopher Monckton you have to do it all while calling yourself a scientist.

___________________________________________________________

Global Warming and Peak Oil - The right solutions, right now
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This criticism would stick... if the climate pessimists had a shred of integrity themselves, but they don't.

There is no debate about climate science because the warmers refuse to debate, preferring obfuscation and name calling. The warmers have the money, the political imperative and 99% of the press... even spin doctors like Monbiot.

We live in a political environment where public figures must continuously doff their cap to climate change or face political attack, hence the Judges comments in the Gore case. The judge knows it's all BS, but can't say so.

Public figures cannot afford to tell the whole truth, we all know that.

Hence no proper debate.

The mountain of evidence to pick up a crumb is a great analogy mate, but a) it's not accurate and b) it is perhaps one of the most ironic statements I have ever seen, climate scientists being the cherry pickers of data that they are.

Once more, I have a question, what are these "urgent action now" things we must do? We have seen the responses are largely BS, Smurf shows that. I have this awful feeling that they revolve around taxes and encroaching totalitarianism... politics and control, rather than real solutions... and not a bloody word on the other real and more imminent environmental problems we face, some of which are mentioned on this thread (bees, north pacific rubbish tip etc).

Yes, we need urgent action, but focused elsewhere, with the ultimate by-product of reduced CO2 emissions.

As I keep stating, if it was real, folks need a lead from their leaders. They need to see Al Bore on a pushbike and turning vego, not adding to the problem (and there is a problem, just not predominantly with co2) with his lifestyle.
 
wayneL said:
I have this awful feeling that they revolve around taxes and encroaching totalitarianism... politics and control, rather than real solutions... and not a bloody word on the other real and more imminent environmental problems we face, some of which are mentioned on this thread (bees, north pacific rubbish tip etc).
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My thoughts exactly Wayne. Call me a skeptic, conspiracy theorist etc, but i believe it is just a way for gov's to take more freedoms away from the common people.

It was 'terror' for a while, that allowed phone taps, privacy invasions, unlimited holding periods etc, and now CC is the next thing to reduce the freedoms of the mass, stupiefied sheeple public out there.

:2twocents
 
wayneL said:
I have this awful feeling that they revolve around taxes and encroaching totalitarianism... politics and control, rather than real solutions...
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prawn_86 said:
My thoughts exactly Wayne. Call me a skeptic, conspiracy theorist etc, but i believe it is just a way for gov's to take more freedoms away from the common people.

It was 'terror' for a while, that allowed phone taps, privacy invasions, unlimited holding periods etc, and now CC is the next thing to reduce the freedoms of the mass, stupiefied sheeple public out there.

:2twocents
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My fear also. The recently announced 5% - 15% scheme, which includes massive compensation for polluters give further weight to this.

And, when talking about government control, let's not forget the soon to be instituted internet blocking. Once this is in place, and the government is refusing to say what sites will be blocked, the population will have no knowledge of what is further being removed from our access as time goes on.

Perhaps even this discussion will in future only carry the remarks of the believers, whilst the comments of the sceptics will simply disappear.
How very convenient it would all be.

Maybe it didn't all happen in 1984 as Orwell proposed, but it might just have been his timing that was out.
 
Julia said:
My fear also. The recently announced 5% - 15% scheme, which includes massive compensation for polluters give further weight to this.

And, when talking about government control, let's not forget the soon to be instituted internet blocking. Once this is in place, and the government is refusing to say what sites will be blocked, the population will have no knowledge of what is further being removed from our access as time goes on.

Perhaps even this discussion will in future only carry the remarks of the believers, whilst the comments of the sceptics will simply disappear.
How very convenient it would all be.

Maybe it didn't all happen in 1984 as Orwell proposed, but it might just have been his timing that was out.
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Agree Julia, the warmeners are very powerful and their influence is pervasive.

gg
 
Julia said:
Perhaps even this discussion will in future only carry the remarks of the believers, whilst the comments of the sceptics will simply disappear.
How very convenient it would all be.

Maybe it didn't all happen in 1984 as Orwell proposed, but it might just have been his timing that was out.
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Even now man-made global warming is accepted dogma on the ABC and in the Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Any dissent will get short shrift. It's little wonder that those politically motivated people pushing it on this thread see it as a fait accompli.
 
julia,
as someone stated earlier, their true agenda is something similar to the communists. To control money, power, resources and thoughts. The net result will be an impoveished population an impoversihed country lack of freedom but their total control.

Why would a group do such a thing? Well there is no logic to their actions. It's like asking why did the world have to live in fear of communism for 70 years. Why did the reds bankrupt their countries take away freedoms and try to impose their will on us? Hard to say. Maybe they didn't like proof that there were better systems of government.

Similarly, greens claim their will must be imposed on the world cause thevplanet is in danger. In danger from modernity, wealth, freedom and rising living standards. Don't forget their claim that the world is overpopulated. That's the really scarry bit.

My parents lived in a commnist country. And I've heard all the stories of the creeping terror, government mandating that noone will have a fridge larger than 1 cubic metre, Noone except government officials will have a car larger then a certain number of horsepower. Noone to have a water heater over 50 liters in size.

It's eerely similar to the current green proposals of forcing us drive lawnmowers to work and wanting us to share bathater.

Oh no, the dams are empty in Sydney because we have an extra million people and haven't built a dam for 35 years. Oh no, it's the fault of global warming!
 
slim pickins said:
julia,
as someone stated earlier, their true agenda is something similar to the communists. To control money, power, resources and thoughts. The net result will be an impoveished population an impoversihed country lack of freedom but their total control.

Why would a group do such a thing? Well there is no logic to their actions. It's like asking why did the world have to live in fear of communism for 70 years. Why did the reds bankrupt their countries take away freedoms and try to impose their will on us? Hard to say. Maybe they didn't like proof that there were better systems of government.

Similarly, greens claim their will must be imposed on the world cause thevplanet is in danger. In danger from modernity, wealth, freedom and rising living standards. Don't forget their claim that the world is overpopulated. That's the really scarry bit.

My parents lived in a commnist country. And I've heard all the stories of the creeping terror, government mandating that noone will have a fridge larger than 1 cubic metre, Noone except government officials will have a car larger then a certain number of horsepower. Noone to have a water heater over 50 liters in size.

It's eerely similar to the current green proposals of forcing us drive lawnmowers to work and wanting us to share bathater.

Oh no, the dams are empty in Sydney because we have an extra million people and haven't built a dam for 35 years. Oh no, it's the fault of global warming!
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Slim you have got it in one.

What a succinct expose of the green fallacy.

I dips me lid to you.

gg
 
slim pickins said:
julia,
as someone stated earlier, their true agenda is something similar to the communists. To control money, power, resources and thoughts. The net result will be an impoveished population an impoversihed country lack of freedom but their total control.

Why would a group do such a thing? Well there is no logic to their actions. It's like asking why did the world have to live in fear of communism for 70 years. Why did the reds bankrupt their countries take away freedoms and try to impose their will on us? Hard to say. Maybe they didn't like proof that there were better systems of government.

Similarly, greens claim their will must be imposed on the world cause thevplanet is in danger. In danger from modernity, wealth, freedom and rising living standards. Don't forget their claim that the world is overpopulated. That's the really scarry bit.

My parents lived in a commnist country. And I've heard all the stories of the creeping terror, government mandating that noone will have a fridge larger than 1 cubic metre, Noone except government officials will have a car larger then a certain number of horsepower. Noone to have a water heater over 50 liters in size.

It's eerely similar to the current green proposals of forcing us drive lawnmowers to work and wanting us to share bathater.

Oh no, the dams are empty in Sydney because we have an extra million people and haven't built a dam for 35 years. Oh no, it's the fault of global warming!
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Then we have the astonishing duplicity of government. Here in the UK there are plans for an additional runway at Heathrow to handle more air traffic, an additional lane on the M25 London Orbital Motorway, government bailouts for LandRover/Jaguar (maker of co2 belching behemoths according to greenies).

Meanwhile, public transport is uneconomic; if you are transporting more than yourself, it is cheaper to use your car.

They talk the talk, but they are not serious. This presents a prima faecia case for an ulterior agenda as you've outlined. Perhaps it is something as benign as energy security and self sufficiency, but I suspect more sinister motives, along with you.
 
wayneL said:
Then we have the astonishing duplicity of government. Here in the UK there are plans for an additional runway at Heathrow to handle more air traffic, an additional lane on the M25 London Orbital Motorway, government bailouts for LandRover/Jaguar (maker of co2 belching behemoths according to greenies).

Meanwhile, public transport is uneconomic; if you are transporting more than yourself, it is cheaper to use your car.

They talk the talk, but they are not serious. This presents a prima faecia case for an ulterior agenda as you've outlined. Perhaps it is something as benign as energy security and self sufficiency, but I suspect more sinister motives, along with you.
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Climate change another name for TAX?
 
Smurf1976 said:
My own ideology is actually somewhat toward that of the environmentalists but...
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A point of clarification here.

I'm not really into the whole consumerism thing. Given the choice, I'm quite happy to keep the car I bought in 2000, my old CRT computer monitor and the worn out 1980's chair I'm sitting on. I could pay cash and replace the whole lot tomorrow but I choose not to because I simply don't want to. It's not the money, I just don't need or want the latest and greatest everything - that's not what I want from life.

The car drives nicely, the monitor gives a good picture and the chair's keeping my bottom off the floor perfectly well so I just don't see the point in replacing them. I'm certainly not someone who'd ever buy a certain car or live at a particular address for the status associated with it. No thanks, I'd rather live my life than worry about what others think.

So in that sense I'm with the environmentalists - money and economic wealth isn't the sole objective. Money isn't the meaning of life and I'd rather be in the bush any day than messing about with whatever the latest gadget craze is.

So i get it as far as the rejection of over consumption is concerned. But don't take that to mean Smurf's about to be running around waving green triangles - the only way that'll happen is if the other side has another go at printing some (been done before).
 
thank you GG.

Wayne, yes. Energy security or self sufficiency will be the excuse. Self sufficiency is north Korea. They are sf sufficient.

But don't forget UK labor is not the greens. Labour is not dangerous. Misguided yes, dangerous no. They just see taxes in these environmental measures. And a way to get the environmentalist vote.

As bad as the consequences of labors environmental policies are (australias economic collapse) they are nothing in comparison to what would happen if greens take power either overtly or my stealth, through the infiltration of a mainstream political party.
 
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