China vs. USA: Why a military conflict may happen and military might compared

[Clansman]

Why you think a nation that was unsuccessful in the Korean War, Vietnam War and in Afghanistan - just to name a few - would fare better against China beggars belief. US military commanders have a pathetic track record and their field troops are only ever successful when they can bring greater fire power to a situation.
You even promoted the idea that America has more fleet tonnage than China so is superior. Really!
And this from you; "They also have zero aircraft carriers...." Is also at odds with reality:


Here's your weakest case:

Yes you do. It's called "provocation".
That US fleet could have been blown out of the water in no time by China but for some reason you think you know better.

Can you claim to have visited every army, navy, and air force base in your State to write official Defence Department Reports? I can!
So stump up with substance rather than make believe.

It's true that China is many years behind in microchip fabrication technology and America has used its bullying tactics to keep it that way. If you are as clever as you think you are, then you can tell us what that last sentence of mine was about. Because that's the issue that very few people get to hear about, and shows the USA to be nothing more than international thugs.

Don't kid yourself about Chinese military strength. They are an absolute joke. China's warships are a disgrace. Even the Japanese still have better warships than China. It's one thing to have a lot of something as China does, but when it's old, poor quality and in a state of disrepair, all that means in conflict is that there will end up being more artificial reefs off the coast of China.
Referencing the Korean, Vietnam and war in Afghanistan is incorrect. All of those conflicts were proxy wars which by design are never meant to have a winner.
Last I heard China had 1 super carrier and the USA had around 20. China is miles off the pace of the USA in terms of budget and tech.
The Chinese just have an infinite ability to build something that will always break well before the tech of the opposing forces.
I would still fancy Japan to dust China in any conflict if the USA was willing to stand back and let them go to town on China.

 

[againsthegrain]

Don't kid yourself about Chinese military strength. They are an absolute joke. China's warships are a disgrace. Even the Japanese still have better warships than China. It's one thing to have a lot of something as China does, but when it's old, poor quality and in a state of disrepair, all that means in conflict is that there will end up being more artificial reefs off the coast of China.
Referencing the Korean, Vietnam and war in Afghanistan is incorrect. All of those conflicts were proxy wars which by design are never meant to have a winner.
Last I heard China had 1 super carrier and the USA had around 20. China is miles off the pace of the USA in terms of budget and tech.
The Chinese just have an infinite ability to build something that will always break well before the tech of the opposing forces.
I would still fancy Japan to dust China in any conflict if the USA was willing to stand back and let them go to town on China.

100%

To add to that, the carrier that china does possess is actually a carrier Ukraine was selling off as scrap in the 90s. China did a sneaky as they usually do and a private company bough it with a plan to make it a "floating casino" ... years later it ends up in pla hands as a refurb, and we all know how chinese refurbs are...
At the first sign of action it most likely will sink itself.

One man's trash is another man's treasure is stretched a bit too far when even the soviets said its junk

 

[Clansman]

100%

To add to that, the carrier that china does possess is actually a carrier Ukraine was selling off as scrap in the 90s. China did a sneaky as they usually do and a private company bough it with a plan to make it a "floating casino" ... years later it ends up in pla hands as a refurb, and we all know how chinese refurbs are...
At the first sign of action it most likely will sink itself.

One man's trash is another man's treasure is stretched a bit too far when even the soviets said its junk

Has China ever fought a war where it didn't end up weaker after the conflict? Most notably against Japan they usually end up getting dragged around by the scruff of their necks and thrown in the corner.
The Chinese have the ability to be brutal within their own borders to their own, but they really do not know how to do war.
They want to be sneaky but you can't be sneaky in war unless you have another equally sneaky power to go along with you and the Chinese can just never find anybody that wants to trust....cough splutter... them.

 

[rederob]

Don't kid yourself about Chinese military strength. They are an absolute joke. China's warships are a disgrace. Even the Japanese still have better warships than China. It's one thing to have a lot of something as China does, but when it's old, poor quality and in a state of disrepair, all that means in conflict is that there will end up being more artificial reefs off the coast of China.

Please provide evidence for your claims. China has one of the most advanced aircraft carriers in the world, and most of its fleet is more modern than Americas.
That's aside from the fact that your ilk cannot understand that China does not have to go anywhere to defeat any allies of Taiwan!
Do you have a clue about what wars entail?

Referencing the Korean, Vietnam and war in Afghanistan is incorrect. All of those conflicts were proxy wars which by design are never meant to have a winner.

Aside from the fact US military leaders failed to bring about victories, what makes Taiwan different to your so called "proxy wars"?

 

[rederob]

100%

To add to that, the carrier that china does possess is actually a carrier Ukraine was selling off as scrap in the 90s. China did a sneaky as they usually do and a private company bough it with a plan to make it a "floating casino" ... years later it ends up in pla hands as a refurb, and we all know how chinese refurbs are...
At the first sign of action it most likely will sink itself.

One man's trash is another man's treasure is stretched a bit too far when even the soviets said its junk

Perhaps you should watch the link I posted as it seems Team USA has no idea about China.

Has China ever fought a war where it didn't end up weaker after the conflict? Most notably against Japan they usually end up getting dragged around by the scruff of their necks and thrown in the corner.
The Chinese have the ability to be brutal within their own borders to their own, but they really do not know how to do war.
They want to be sneaky but you can't be sneaky in war unless you have another equally sneaky power to go along with you and the Chinese can just never find anybody that wants to trust....cough splutter... them.

This is 2021. You are welcome to live in the past. But posting nonsense is not an argument.

 

[Clansman]

Please provide evidence for your claims. China has one of the most advanced aircraft carriers in the world, and most of its fleet is more modern than Americas.
That's aside from the fact that your ilk cannot understand that China does not have to go anywhere to defeat any allies of Taiwan!
Do you have a clue about what wars entail?

Aside from the fact US military leaders failed to bring about victories, what makes Taiwan different to your so called "proxy wars"?

You need to edit your 2nd sentence. IT should read "China has ONE supercarrier in the world. It finishes right there. You can edit out the words MOST and FLEET.
Referencing Taiwan, how is China going with that? LOL

 

[Clansman]

Perhaps you should watch the link I posted as it seems Team USA has no idea about China.

Is that Ukrainian carrier listing to one side?
Look at the state of that helicopter. I've seen more tech for hunting deer.

 

[rederob]

You need to edit your 2nd sentence. IT should read "China has ONE supercarrier in the world. It finishes right there. You can edit out the words MOST and FLEET.
Referencing Taiwan, how is China going with that? LOL

Please offer a decent argument to reply to.
I am happy to respond to sensible content but so far nobody has come up with any rationale for Taiwan, which is recognised even by the USA as part of China, to be the pawn in a war.
As to Sir Garpal's link about Chinese incursions into Taiwan's air space, it's no different to the Chinese military assisting Hong Kong police suppress riots. It's called the "one China" policy.

 

[Clansman]

Perhaps you should watch the link I posted as it seems Team USA has no idea about China.

This is 2021. You are welcome to live in the past. But posting nonsense is not an argument.

China presents no strategic difficulty for any opposing force.... as Japan has proven on numerous occasions.
Any sort of conflict involving China would see an opposing force, probably Japan putting its feet up and smoking cigars in Beijing inside a week.
You are welcome to live in a bubble. But posting nonsense doesn't win wars. Just ask the Chinese.

 

[rederob]

China presents no strategic difficulty for any opposing force.... as Japan has proven on numerous occasions.
Any sort of conflict involving China would see an opposing force, probably Japan putting its feet up and smoking cigars in Beijing inside a week.
You are welcome to live in a bubble. But posting nonsense doesn't win wars. Just ask the Chinese.

Please re-read my post - I am happy to respond to sensible content.

 

[Clansman]

well that took even less time

China has huffed and puffed about Taiwan for about 70 years. The house will never get blown in.
The majority of what is reported is just click bait.
The real world smart money is not in any way interested in China's 50 cent bet on a ping pong match.

 

[Clansman]

Please re-read my post - I am happy to respond to sensible content.

Then provide some...

 

[Clansman]

Opinions on what will happen to stocks and bonds (and global markets) if China were to Invade Taiwan please folks.

This thread is about financial markets, not military might.

I'll make it real simple for everybody. China will not invade Taiwan as China has and always will fear any possibility of conflict within it's own borders and it would get it as it always does, be weakened by it as it always is, and on this occasion likely be forced to have parts of itself annexed because this time they would never be able to afford to pay reparations as they always do.

 

[rederob]

Or you could check out the war gaming results of US/China conflict the US Generals had to ponder last year. Wasn't good news

Also a small gunboat with a decent anti ship missile system system can cripple a carrier.
A small fleet of such boats would make this outcome inevitable. Which takes us back to the war gaming outcome.

Type 22 missile boat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unfortunately there are some posters here who have no idea about China.
Maybe this helps on the subject of conflict.

 

[Clansman]

Perhaps you should watch the link I posted as it seems Team USA has no idea about China.

This is 2021. You are welcome to live in the past. But posting nonsense is not an argument.

Furthermore neither the 1985 Ukrainian built Liaoning or the Shandong in the link you have posted actually qualify as a true Super Carrier.
Therefore China has exactly ZERO, that's right ZERO super carriers in its navy.
A true super carrier his a displacement of more than 70000 tonnes and neither the Ukrainian side hustle or the Shandong do that.

 

[Clansman]

Unfortunately there are some posters here who have no idea about China.
Maybe this helps on the subject of conflict.

According to your posts, you are all of the posters here who have no idea about China.

 

[Clansman]

Unfortunately there are some posters here who have no idea about China.
Maybe this helps on the subject of conflict.

TRT World is a Turkish state owned news channel which broadcasts in English 24 hours a day.

Press freedom and neutrality[edit]​

The network has received criticism for failing to meet accepted journalism ethics and standards for independence and objectivity, with some commentators especially in the West calling it a mouthpiece or propaganda arm of the Erdoğan administration.[12][13][14] TRT World has stated that it is financially and editorially independent from the Turkish government, and that its news gathering and reporting activities are just like those of other publicly-funded broadcasters around the world, with a mission to show a non-Turkish audience events from Turkey's viewpoint.[15][16][14] However, according to Reporters Without Borders, Turkey in 2020 ranked 154th out of 179 countries in press freedom.[17]

In March 2020, the United States Justice Department required TRT World's Washington operation to register as an agent of the Government of Turkey, engaged in political activities, under the anti-propaganda Foreign Agents Registration Act. TRT World's arguments that it is independent were rejected by the US officials, who found that the Turkish government "exercises direction and control of TRT by regulation and oversight, and by controlling its leadership, budget, and content."[16] Apart from some Russian and Chinese networks, other state-funded media including the Qatari-backed Al Jazeera, British-backed BBC News, French-backed France 24 and German-backed Deutsche Welle had not been determined to be foreign-government agents.[18]

In a 2019 op-ed in The Washington Post, MEMRI's executive director Steven Stalinsky surmised TRT World as "a propaganda arm of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's regime", similar to the Russian RT News network. He notes that the channel offered only enthusiastically promotional coverage of the Turkish military's Operation Peace Spring in Syria, while according to the Committee to Protect Journalists, the government banned critical news coverage domestically. Stalinsky urges human rights activists, journalists, and others not to appear on and legitimize the network's shows, just as they would not appear on RT.[13]

Following the 2016 Turkish coup attempt, some journalists who had recently joined the company resigned.[19][20] One of those who resigned said: "I no longer hold out any hope that this channel will become what I wanted it to become (...) After the coup, it became very apparent that the channel had no intention of actually covering it properly, in a professional, international broadcast standard." The managing editor at the time said that he "never received a phone call from Ankara trying to frame the broadcast or give them talking points."[21]

More recently as of March 2020 with the Evros border crisis, TRT World and other Turkish media have in a way, accelerated on producing fake news as alleged by the Greek government, as was also mentioned by Prime Minister of Greece Kyriakos Mitsotakis in a CNN interview twice,[22] stating that the reports all come from Turkish media and other unknown sources aiming to discredit the Hellenic Coast Guard and Hellenic Armed Forces efforts with propaganda videos. TRT World claimed that Greece sent back refugee vessels to Turkish waters, which was denied by Greece.[23] Even though, there have been reports by other sources of Greek coastal authorities forcing the refugee vessels back to Turkish side, in a military strategy dubbed "push back".[24]

 

[IFocus]

Good discussion gents, Kennas would have some nice inside info I am sure.

I think all the arguments have some merit but what we don't really know is what all the motivations are so I think its fair to speculate.

As for the logistics, raw materials, length of the supply lines to run a war both side have their problem's that's before you get to body count numbers that either side could accept (defending the home land no limit on casualties)

Think of the number of wars fought and lost based on miss steps or wrong calculations, anyone remember Saddam Hussein?

China is expanding, taking Taiwan is in its plans, incremental movement is under way for that to happen, China has very long term plans compared to the west election cycles.

I would think the chip production coming out of Taiwan would help Chinas plans.

China knows starting a war with the US would eventually end up east verses west un-winnable for China but would the west be prepared for the casualties to take mainland China and for what?

 

[over9k]

I think the yank admirals etc know more about their own business/hardware than some random on the internet does. Desert storm should really tell everyone just what the americans are capable of in a traditional military vs military conflict.

The armchair experts of the world never cease to amaze me.



Again, the question here is not whether the yanks could stop an invasion of taiwan, it's whether they care to. I explained the rapidly deteriorating question of stability in asia in a previous post.

Once the new chip factories are built, america is well & truly gone.

 

[rederob]

I think the yank admirals etc know more about their own business/hardware than some random on the internet does. Desert storm should really tell everyone just what the americans are capable of in a traditional military vs military conflict.

The armchair experts of the world never cease to amaze me.



Again, the question here is not whether the yanks could stop an invasion of taiwan, it's whether they care to. I explained the rapidly deteriorating question of stability in asia in a previous post.

Once the new chip factories are built, america is well & truly gone.

You have no idea what goes into planning for war whereas I wrote official Reports on support capability. It is you who is out of his depth here.
If China wanted to act on Taiwan it would merely implement a blockade. The international community accepts the "one China" policy so would have no cause to act.
That aside, I note you were unable to address the challenge I set for you in an earlier post. Are you up for it or are you going to indulge in more waffle?