Census - 9 August 2016

pixel · 14 August 2016

bellenuit said:
Even if they did correlate with other sources, what can they do about it. You signed the census saying you answered as truthfully as possible, but that doesn't mean you didn't make a mistake. And if they tried to prosecute following a correlation mismatch, then they are up **** creek trying to explain why they did that when it is illegal according to the ABS charter.

They (the ABS) don't have to prosecute. They can leave it to other departments, e/g/ the ATO or even Fed Narcs, to give you a once-over with a tax audit or welfare fraud investigation. Plenty of opportunity to make your life miserable.

... and it creates employment opportunities for more lipopygian chair warmers, improving unemployment stats, which the Gov'mint will certainly brag about on its "We're the best economic managers" rap sheet.

bellenuit · 14 August 2016

trainspotter said:
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh ... not so loud they might hear you ?

Why would "census" need to know the EXACT address for the company you work for? So are they trying to tell me they will measure how far I live away from my place of work so they can "statistically" figure out that I drive a car to work or catch the bus? What if I take a different route every day? What if sometimes I ride my bike to work?

Would it not have been better to ask "How far do you live away from your place of work?" and "What mode of transport do you use to get to your place of work?"

I suppose the postcode or street name are not that accurate. What about someone who works on the Albany Highway (between Perth and Albany). Asking how far is not that easy for many people and certainly is not going to convey where the person is going to. If they asked for the street name and number, then for 95% of the population that identifies where they work. I'm sure they did ask the mode of transport, as far as I remember.

I think again it comes back to lack of trust in the government. If you believe they have nefarious intents, then every question can be suspicious. They do have the information from other sources, so if you are worried about cross correlation revealing something you have been dishonest about, as I said before, why would you provide a different answer in the census?

Knobby22 · 14 August 2016

Such distrust of the Government shows the effect of US culture on our mindset.
Honestly, really ? is what I think to some of the paranoid comments in this thread.

Smurf1976 · 14 August 2016

Knobby22 said:
Such distrust of the Government shows the effect of US culture on our mindset.
Honestly, really ? is what I think to some of the paranoid comments in this thread.

For me personally I'm not at all paranoid. It's more a case of wondering why they ask the questions they do and not others?

They want to know how many bedrooms in the house and whether it's owned outright, with a mortgage or rented. Fair enough. But with all the fuss about climate change these days and the growing importance of the digital economy (as two random examples) I'm wondering why they didn't also ask if there's solar panels on the roof and what sort of internet connection I have and what devices such as desktop PC's, laptops, tablets etc I have? If the area has NBN fibre to the home but people are choosing the slowest speed plans or not connecting at all then would government not want to know that?

Likewise any relationship between income and these things, I'd think that would be useful information. Do people below a certain income generally not own computers? Are people who own outright more likely to install solar than people with a mortgage? Seems like useful info to me given all the fuss about both energy and the NBN in recent times.

They ask how I get to work, fair enough. But no questions as to the reasons why I choose that method. If someone lives right on a bus route but drives to work in the CBD then wouldn't it be useful to know why they do that and not catch the bus that stops 20m from where they live? If part of the reason for the census is things like town planning then surely someone would want to know why people aren't using public transport if it's available?

Etc. For me it's more a curiosity as to what they didn't ask and wondering why than any concern about what they did ask.

For the things they do ask I question the relevance. Breakdown of incomes would already be available information in a broad sense, government collects tax after all and presumably can get some statistics out of that. Likewise for things like road planning, well there's people known as traffic engineers employed by state and local government who look at that in a broad sense, so any additional information from the census would really need to answer the "why?" question about travel rather than simply counting cars.

It just seemed to me that they were really only interested in money and things relating to it. Do I own the house I live in? How much do I earn? How do I earn it? Where do I work? Etc. Seemed to be a big focus on money but not much about other things.

bellenuit · 14 August 2016

Smurf1976 said:
For me personally I'm not at all paranoid. It's more a case of wondering why they ask the questions they do and not others?

They want to know how many bedrooms in the house and whether it's owned outright, with a mortgage or rented. Fair enough. But with all the fuss about climate change these days and the growing importance of the digital economy (as two random examples) I'm wondering why they didn't also ask if there's solar panels on the roof and what sort of internet connection I have and what devices such as desktop PC's, laptops, tablets etc I have? If the area has NBN fibre to the home but people are choosing the slowest speed plans or not connecting at all then would government not want to know that?

Likewise any relationship between income and these things, I'd think that would be useful information. Do people below a certain income generally not own computers? Are people who own outright more likely to install solar than people with a mortgage? Seems like useful info to me given all the fuss about both energy and the NBN in recent times.

They ask how I get to work, fair enough. But no questions as to the reasons why I choose that method. If someone lives right on a bus route but drives to work in the CBD then wouldn't it be useful to know why they do that and not catch the bus that stops 20m from where they live? If part of the reason for the census is things like town planning then surely someone would want to know why people aren't using public transport if it's available?

Etc. For me it's more a curiosity as to what they didn't ask and wondering why than any concern about what they did ask.

For the things they do ask I question the relevance. Breakdown of incomes would already be available information in a broad sense, government collects tax after all and presumably can get some statistics out of that. Likewise for things like road planning, well there's people known as traffic engineers employed by state and local government who look at that in a broad sense, so any additional information from the census would really need to answer the "why?" question about travel rather than simply counting cars.

It just seemed to me that they were really only interested in money and things relating to it. Do I own the house I live in? How much do I earn? How do I earn it? Where do I work? Etc. Seemed to be a big focus on money but not much about other things.

Fair comment. For all the trouble they go to, they sure ask for very little practical information. I think if they made it truly anonymous people would accept being asked more detailed information, particularly if they explained what it would be used for.

qldfrog · 15 August 2016

bellenuit said:
Fair comment. For all the trouble they go to, they sure ask for very little practical information. I think if they made it truly anonymous people would accept being asked more detailed information, particularly if they explained what it would be used for.

they do not even ask the number of bedroom in the house
I would have thought that nb of people living in a house vs nb of bedroom was important but no.....Just an ATO cross check exercise;
and would any illegal migrant be included ?

A joke and a debacle and we are still sold the falacy the system crashed as a result of a Dos attack whereas it was just pure incompetence, who needed DOS with a system unable to take the expected load which could be forecast from a back of the envelop calculation...let's blame the Chineses...oops no can not do that anymore, so let's blame the libertarians..50 years ago, we would have blamed the communists

McLovin · 15 August 2016

Smurf1976 said:
For me personally I'm not at all paranoid. It's more a case of wondering why they ask the questions they do and not others?

They want to know how many bedrooms in the house and whether it's owned outright, with a mortgage or rented. Fair enough. But with all the fuss about climate change these days and the growing importance of the digital economy (as two random examples) I'm wondering why they didn't also ask if there's solar panels on the roof and what sort of internet connection I have and what devices such as desktop PC's, laptops, tablets etc I have? If the area has NBN fibre to the home but people are choosing the slowest speed plans or not connecting at all then would government not want to know that?

Likewise any relationship between income and these things, I'd think that would be useful information. Do people below a certain income generally not own computers? Are people who own outright more likely to install solar than people with a mortgage? Seems like useful info to me given all the fuss about both energy and the NBN in recent times.

They ask how I get to work, fair enough. But no questions as to the reasons why I choose that method. If someone lives right on a bus route but drives to work in the CBD then wouldn't it be useful to know why they do that and not catch the bus that stops 20m from where they live? If part of the reason for the census is things like town planning then surely someone would want to know why people aren't using public transport if it's available?

Etc. For me it's more a curiosity as to what they didn't ask and wondering why than any concern about what they did ask.

For the things they do ask I question the relevance. Breakdown of incomes would already be available information in a broad sense, government collects tax after all and presumably can get some statistics out of that. Likewise for things like road planning, well there's people known as traffic engineers employed by state and local government who look at that in a broad sense, so any additional information from the census would really need to answer the "why?" question about travel rather than simply counting cars.

It just seemed to me that they were really only interested in money and things relating to it. Do I own the house I live in? How much do I earn? How do I earn it? Where do I work? Etc. Seemed to be a big focus on money but not much about other things.

The overwhelming purpose of a census is to provide a headcount for electoral boundaries. The questions will be left deliberately broad so as not to collect wads of pointless information and because the census would become incredibly long. The reason someone in Dubbo drives 30km to work is because there is no other way to get to work. The reason someone in inner Sydney uses the bus to get to work instead of cycling...well that's incredibly open ended (lack of bike lanes, feeling unsafe on roads, don't know how to ride a bike, too lazy, lack of shower facilities at office, lack of secure storage at office...) and best answered by surveying the local population about transport rather than the whole country. I think they're probably deliberately overstating the use of the census in things like town planning in order to have a high completion rate. Town planning will resonate a lot better with people than electoral boundaries.

Wysiwyg · 15 August 2016

Knobby22 said:
Such distrust of the Government shows the effect of US culture on our mindset.

Privacy is valuable and rightly defended.

qldfrog · 16 August 2016

qldfrog said:
they do not even ask the number of bedroom in the house
I would have thought that nb of people living in a house vs nb of bedroom was important but no.....Just an ATO cross check exercise;
and would any illegal migrant be included ?

A joke and a debacle and we are still sold the falacy the system crashed as a result of a Dos attack whereas it was just pure incompetence, who needed DOS with a system unable to take the expected load which could be forecast from a back of the envelop calculation...let's blame the Chineses...oops no can not do that anymore, so let's blame the libertarians..50 years ago, we would have blamed the communists

I wanted to delete the part above about bedrooms after remembering they actually did, not that precise but they did
My apologies, rest of rant of angry white heteresexual white male remains

trainspotter · 16 August 2016

Smurf1976 said:
For me personally I'm not at all paranoid. It's more a case of wondering why they ask the questions they do and not others?

It just seemed to me that they were really only interested in money and things relating to it. Do I own the house I live in? How much do I earn? How do I earn it? Where do I work? Etc. Seemed to be a big focus on money but not much about other things.

Yes some of the questions were very vague indeed whilst others had a microscope shoved up your rectum. Not part of the tin foil hat brigade but I will bet you London to a brick that next year the ATO and Centrelink will be getting pretty savage on a few folks out there come tax time.

drsmith · 18 August 2016

This is about the online services not by stats but another government service provider, Medicare.

Having just made a claim in relation to a pathology service through the Medicare Express Plus app on a tablet, the process after going through the initial setup isn't all that bad.

My only criticism is trying to claim proof of service by having to photograph the relevant invoice is to me a clunky way to establish proof of service but the app itself does a good job of minimising the pain from this element of the process.

In my instance, I couldn't photograph the whole invoice to get a clear picture so I photographed the most critical part in terms of service provider and charged items. Having submitted that the app then asked for those elements in any case.

I'll see in the next few days how the claim goes. The login too is much simpler than for MyGov requiring only a 4-digit pin once set up. The claim receipt I've got for the above however is 23 numbers long.

CanOz · 18 August 2016

Our census is done....painless.....wtf is the problem ya pack of whinging dolts!

bellenuit · 18 August 2016

drsmith said:
This is about the online services not by stats but another government service provider, Medicare.

Having just made a claim in relation to a pathology service through the Medicare Express Plus app on a tablet, the process after going through the initial setup isn't all that bad.

My only criticism is trying to claim proof of service by having to photograph the relevant invoice is to me a clunky way to establish proof of service but the app itself does a good job of minimising the pain from this element of the process.

In my instance, I couldn't photograph the whole invoice to get a clear picture so I photographed the most critical part in terms of service provider and charged items. Having submitted that the app then asked for those elements in any case.

I'll see in the next few days how the claim goes. The login too is much simpler than for MyGov requiring only a 4-digit pin once set up. The claim receipt I've got for the above however is 23 numbers long.

I used that app last week and got my refund through in a day or too. I was a bit annoyed being forced to use the mobile app (and to first download it) to make the claim as I already have access to Medicare through the MyGov site and it would have been easier for me to do it from there (scanning the invoice to my Mac rather than photographing it from my iPhone). When I tried to do it on my Mac, it said I could only use the mobile app to make the claim.

The other complaint (minor) is that the app can only be loaded on one mobile device. You can't have it on both your iPhone and iPad. I don't know why there is that restriction. I would prefer to be able to claim from whichever device is at hand at the time; phone, tablet or desktop.

These are just minor irritations and it is good to be able to do these things without having to go to the local Medicare office as one had to do in the past. There is less and less nowadays that requires one's physical presence at a brick and mortar store. I could do my groceries online, but then I would never leave the house.

drsmith · 18 August 2016

Being unable to claim initially from PC using MyGov when entering the relevant code was my frustration too. That was something I was hoping thay'd rectify but after 6 months, I reluctantly concluded it was time to yield.

Knobby22 · 18 August 2016

drsmith said:
Being unable to claim initially from PC using MyGov when entering the relevant code was my frustration too. That was something I was hoping thay'd rectify but after 6 months, I reluctantly concluded it was time to yield.

I am really annoyed about this app. The tax system worked great last year. Why should I have to use an app on my phone instead of the desktop. Ridiculous.

SirRumpole · 18 August 2016

Knobby22 said:
I am really annoyed about this app. The tax system worked great last year. Why should I have to use an app on my phone instead of the desktop. Ridiculous.

Probably because PC's are sooooo last century to the tech nerds that write apps.

drsmith · 22 August 2016

drsmith said:
This is about the online services not by stats but another government service provider, Medicare.

Having just made a claim in relation to a pathology service through the Medicare Express Plus app on a tablet, the process after going through the initial setup isn't all that bad.

My only criticism is trying to claim proof of service by having to photograph the relevant invoice is to me a clunky way to establish proof of service but the app itself does a good job of minimising the pain from this element of the process.

In my instance, I couldn't photograph the whole invoice to get a clear picture so I photographed the most critical part in terms of service provider and charged items. Having submitted that the app then asked for those elements in any case.

I'll see in the next few days how the claim goes. The login too is much simpler than for MyGov requiring only a 4-digit pin once set up. The claim receipt I've got for the above however is 23 numbers long.

I got a call from Medicare today regarding the above.

Not all the information on the photo was readable but it was the best I could do with the tablet. Perhaps one needs a device with a 12mp camera to get an image of sufficient quality.

I'm off to a Medicare office later this week to get it sorted. Failing that, I can fill out a form and post it if by that stage I can still be bothered.

Wysiwyg · 22 August 2016

drsmith said:
Not all the information on the photo was readable but it was the best I could do with the tablet. Perhaps one needs a device with a 12mp camera to get an image of sufficient quality.

I get automatic claim crediting from one practice and card swipe crediting from another. Paper claims are/are going to be a thing of the past.

drsmith · 25 August 2016

Over 6.5m of 9m households have completed the census according to the ABS and they are now going so set out the foot patrol to encourage the rest.

Nearly 38,000 census officers will hit the streets over the next week as the Bureau of Statistics tries to convince people to complete the national survey.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/08/25/census-officers-out-visit-recalcitrants

qldfrog · 27 August 2016

a nice example of how the gov preserves your privacy:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/australias-corporate-data-gets-closer-to-private-hands-20160825-gr0zwh.html
so as for trusting the ABS....

Census - 9 August 2016

pixel

DIY Trader

bellenuit

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Smurf1976

bellenuit

qldfrog

McLovin

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

qldfrog

trainspotter

drsmith

CanOz

Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!

bellenuit

drsmith

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

SirRumpole

drsmith

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

drsmith

qldfrog

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