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divs4ever said:

Phasing out cheques, and what will happen to cash?​


www.firstlinks.com.au

Phasing out cheques, and what will happen to cash?

Cheques and bank service, or the lack of, were major topics when I addressed a seniors’ group recently. The word had got out that the government was phasing out cheques, and many in the audience were feeling abandoned.
www.firstlinks.com.au www.firstlinks.com.au
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We still use cheques for paying 2 of our accounts. The farm services outlet does take cash, but prefers a cheque. If we pay by credit card, then we lose our monthly discount on what we have purchased. Accountant takes cash but cheques are OK. Similarly, if paying by card a per centage is added to the bill. i
 
farmerge said:
We still use cheques for paying 2 of our accounts. The farm services outlet does take cash, but prefers a cheque. If we pay by credit card, then we lose our monthly discount on what we have purchased. Accountant takes cash but cheques are OK. Similarly, if paying by card a per centage is added to the bill. i
Click to expand...
Don't let the credit card surcharge stop you using credit card, it you still normally end up ahead.

For example, if I spend $2,000 on my card and get charged say 1%, thats a $20 card fee, But in return I get

$23.40 of Airline points.
+
$14.25 interest by allowing my money to offset my loan for an extra 40 days

So, thats $37.65 of benefits, the fee has to be 3.76% before it makes sense for me to use cash.

-------------------

If you invert the problem, you could say spending cash where there is a 0% credit card fee costs me 3.76% in lost benefits, or even more if I carry the cash around for days before I make the purchase. So credit card is cheaper than cash for me, even if they is a credit card fee.
 
@Value Collector

I don't think anyone is arguing *against the digital system, it certainly does have many benefits. What people are arguing against is the potential demise of cash altogether.

This is particularly acute when one considers that the outages and potentially very extended outages, certain people have been debanked.

For instance Nigel Farage in the UK was debanked for several weeks before he was forced to use the legal system to restore banking services.

That is only one high-profile case there are certainly a plethora of examples where the same has happened to ordinary people. IIRC, was a period when tattoo artists were debanked in this country.

Now, I do not have any tattoos, and in general I am not really in favor of them (personal opinion), but I think we may have all noticed that tattoos have become extremely mainstream in Western society. Therefore tattoo artists surely are legitimate businesses.

Additionally many other non-famous people have been debanked because of their political opinions and not necessarily opinions of any extreme.

The gents at triggernometry podcast where debanked for a time, simply because they interviewed people with whom the "banks values" did not agree.

Can you not see where this may lead if cash is outlawed altogether? People will be at the complete mercy of the political/financial "establishment".

Social credit score anyone?

In fact this has already been rooted in the West where Banks are starting to score your "carbon footprint" according purchases.

A completely digital system will usher in a period of absolute tyranny and anyone who denies this is deluding themselves.

By all means people should use the digital system when appropriate and convenient, but to preserve Western Liberal lifestyle people should use cash whenever possible and resist attempts to phase it out.
 
wayneL said:
@Value Collector

I don't think anyone is arguing *against the digital system, it certainly does have many benefits. What people are arguing against is the potential demise of cash altogether.

This is particularly acute when one considers that the outages and potentially very extended outages, certain people have been debanked.

For instance Nigel Farage in the UK was debanked for several weeks before he was forced to use the legal system to restore banking services.

That is only one high-profile case there are certainly a plethora of examples where the same has happened to ordinary people. IIRC, was a period when tattoo artists were debanked in this country.

Now, I do not have any tattoos, and in general I am not really in favor of them (personal opinion), but I think we may have all noticed that tattoos have become extremely mainstream in Western society. Therefore tattoo artists surely are legitimate businesses.

Additionally many other non-famous people have been debanked because of their political opinions and not necessarily opinions of any extreme.

The gents at triggernometry podcast where debanked for a time, simply because they interviewed people with whom the "banks values" did not agree.

Can you not see where this may lead if cash is outlawed altogether? People will be at the complete mercy of the political/financial "establishment".

Social credit score anyone?

In fact this has already been rooted in the West where Banks are starting to score your "carbon footprint" according purchases.

A completely digital system will usher in a period of absolute tyranny and anyone who denies this is deluding themselves.

By all means people should use the digital system when appropriate and convenient, but to preserve Western Liberal lifestyle people should use cash whenever possible and resist attempts to phase it out.
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And I am not against cash in general, it’s just unfortunate for those people who like to use it that

1, the alternative system is causing handling cash to be very expensive based on the smaller scale it’s now used,

2. the fact that cash seems to be the method used by certain groups to avoid taxes.

this is causing the banks to want to avoid cash to lower costs, and the government to discourage cash to lower tax evasion.

Maybe there is a way for the cash lovers to start to weed out those among them that are staining their reputation by doing “cash jobs” and avoiding taxes.
 
Value Collector said:
Don't let the credit card surcharge stop you using credit card, it you still normally end up ahead.

For example, if I spend $2,000 on my card and get charged say 1%, thats a $20 card fee, But in return I get

$23.40 of Airline points.
+
$14.25 interest by allowing my money to offset my loan for an extra 40 days

So, thats $37.65 of benefits, the fee has to be 3.76% before it makes sense for me to use cash.

-------------------

If you invert the problem, you could say spending cash where there is a 0% credit card fee costs me 3.76% in lost benefits, or even more if I carry the cash around for days before I make the purchase. So credit card is cheaper than cash for me, even if they is a credit card fee.
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If the fee was just 1% then I would probably wear it. Usually over 2%
 
Value Collector said:
And I am not against cash in general, it’s just unfortunate for those people who like to use it that

1, the alternative system is causing handling cash to be very expensive based on the smaller scale it’s now used,

2. the fact that cash seems to be the method used by certain groups to avoid taxes.

this is causing the banks to want to avoid cash to lower costs, and the government to discourage cash to lower tax evasion.

Maybe there is a way for the cash lovers to start to weed out those among them that are staining their reputation by doing “cash jobs” and avoiding taxes.
Click to expand...
I've got a cpi[;e of cashies on the go at the moment. No waste of atxpayers funds with this lot !!!!
 
Value Collector said:
And I am not against cash in general, it’s just unfortunate for those people who like to use it that

1, the alternative system is causing handling cash to be very expensive based on the smaller scale it’s now used,

2. the fact that cash seems to be the method used by certain groups to avoid taxes.

this is causing the banks to want to avoid cash to lower costs, and the government to discourage cash to lower tax evasion.

Maybe there is a way for the cash lovers to start to weed out those among them that are staining their reputation by doing “cash jobs” and avoiding taxes.
Click to expand...
Strawman.

The tax avoided by the cash economy is chicken feed compared to the outright larceny of complex tax avoidance schemes by Big Business.

This is assuming that taxation in and of itself is not larceny.

I have no choice in how much taxes collected from me nor do I have any choice and how it is spent. It is theft at gunpoint.

I don't think any of us have a challenge with reasonable government expenditure financed by taxation... Infrastructure, defence, reasonable welfare etc, but let's face it these expenditures could be financed by a much lower level of taxation than we currently suffer.

1/ taxation and expenditure seriously needs branch and root reform, on the topic of taxation upon taxed income.

2/ once the above is achieved then the taxation authorities should focus on major avoidance rather than the chump change of the cash economy. Those with the resources of creative accounting avoid/evade far for taxation liability than some poor tradie doing the occasional cashy

3/ there is even a collection of tax from the cash economy via numerous sources.

4/ It is my experience that because economy relies on borrowings/mortgages, the level of cashies is actually very low as people need to maximize their legitimate income in order to augment their borrowing capacity. It is basically at the level of beer/cigarette money, which is excessively taxed anyway.

I could go on for several more points but duty calls because I have a tax bill to pay.
 

wayneL said:
Strawman.

The tax avoided by the cash economy is chicken feed compared to the outright larceny of complex tax avoidance schemes by Big Business.

This is assuming that taxation in and of itself is not larceny.

I have no choice in how much taxes collected from me nor do I have any choice and how it is spent. It is theft at gunpoint.

I don't think any of us have a challenge with reasonable government expenditure financed by taxation... Infrastructure, defence, reasonable welfare etc, but let's face it these expenditures could be financed by a much lower level of taxation than we currently suffer.

1/ taxation and expenditure seriously needs branch and root reform, on the topic of taxation upon taxed income.

2/ once the above is achieved then the taxation authorities should focus on major avoidance rather than the chump change of the cash economy. Those with the resources of creative accounting avoid/evade far for taxation liability than some poor tradie doing the occasional cashy

3/ there is even a collection of tax from the cash economy via numerous sources.

4/ It is my experience that because economy relies on borrowings/mortgages, the level of cashies is actually very low as people need to maximize their legitimate income in order to augment their borrowing capacity. It is basically at the level of beer/cigarette money, which is excessively taxed anyway.

I could go on for several more points but duty calls because I have a tax bill to pay.
Click to expand...
I am in favor of cracking down on all forms of tax avoidance.

you do have a choice in taxation and how it’s spent, because you get to vote.

I don’t know about cashies being at low levels, as I have said already when I was renovating a year ago there were multiple tradies that offered to do work cheaper for cash, in fact the tree lopper refused any other payment except for cash, not even direct deposit.
 
Value Collector said:
Yeah, but life goes on.
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It does but if you were the owner of a business that had provided me with goods or service that I now couldn't pay for, I expect you'd have a somewhat different view when I simply walked out without paying. Heck you might even go as far as calling the cops.

Obvious examples being restaurants, fuel stations, any kind of personal services (hairdressers, doctors, anything) where you've received the goods or service, you can't possibly undo the purchase as such, so the only question is whether the business gets its money or not.

From my perspective as the customer, carrying cash fixes that risk completely. Even if they can't take the cash, well that's their failing not mine. :2twocents
 
Value Collector said:
I am in favor of cracking down on all forms of tax avoidance.

you do have a choice in taxation and how it’s spent, because you get to vote.

I don’t know about cashies being at low levels, as I have said already when I was renovating a year ago there were multiple tradies that offered to do work cheaper for cash, in fact the tree lopper refused any other payment except for cash, not even direct deposit.
Click to expand...
You would basically destroy the student market. A lot is based on those that are poor using cash as a boost. They are also the ones going out spending on consumer goods.

If you run the system to perfectly then there will be ato officers and politicians swinging from lampposts.
 
Dona Ferentes said:
Noel Whittaker on cheques n cash

www.firstlinks.com.au

Phasing out cheques, and what will happen to cash?

Cheques and bank service, or the lack of, were major topics when I addressed a seniors’ group recently. The word had got out that the government was phasing out cheques, and many in the audience were feeling abandoned.
www.firstlinks.com.au www.firstlinks.com.au
Click to expand...

What totally p@#@#es me off in that article is the statement "One pointed out that there are elderly people who have never learnt to do internet banking." So they are saying their brain is ossified and are completely incapable of learning. The fact is a lot don't want to change and prefer not to learn new skills. Feeling left behind are you? Well, you caused that feeling by refusing to adapt as the world changed around you. You saw it but didn't want to participate.

I haven't written a cheque in over a decade and haven't been in a bank for about the same period. I don't even know where the banks are physically located in my area because I have no need for them.

I'm on the 70 yo plus side of life. I'm therefore considered elderly but decided to learn to make my life easier. Nor do I want to stop learning.

For those in rural areas, however, I agree there must be some other arrangements put in place. Internet is spasmodic and crappy. It metro areas it is good most of the time.

Yes, systems do go down. It's inconvenient for sure and business have a right to complain and receive compensation for a service for a service which was not provided. People claim they cannot pay their bills on time. Hmm, ever heard of scheduling payments? I've a payment due in early March. The BPay for that payment was scheduled in September last year.

I'll stop the rant here as otherwise this post would be much longer than it already is.
 
moXJO said:
You would basically destroy the student market. A lot is based on those that are poor using cash as a boost. They are also the ones going out spending on consumer goods.

If you run the system to perfectly then there will be ato officers and politicians swinging from lampposts.
Click to expand...
I don’t think allowing students to get exploited by paying them cash so the business owner gets away without paying super or other benefits is a noble cause worth defending.
 
Smurf1976 said:
It does but if you were the owner of a business that had provided me with goods or service that I now couldn't pay for, I expect you'd have a somewhat different view when I simply walked out without paying. Heck you might even go as far as calling the cops.

Obvious examples being restaurants, fuel stations, any kind of personal services (hairdressers, doctors, anything) where you've received the goods or service, you can't possibly undo the purchase as such, so the only question is whether the business gets its money or not.

From my perspective as the customer, carrying cash fixes that risk completely. Even if they can't take the cash, well that's their failing not mine. :2twocents
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happens all the time when people forget their wallet.

I have been in that situation, my eftpos machine used to keep the transactions in it memory, or before that I used to use the manual machine.
but I have been through all these things on this thread previously.


IMG_0704.jpeg
 
Smurf1976 said:
It does but if you were the owner of a business that had provided me with goods or service that I now couldn't pay for, I expect you'd have a somewhat different view when I simply walked out without paying. Heck you might even go as far as calling the cops.

Obvious examples being restaurants, fuel stations, any kind of personal services (hairdressers, doctors, anything) where you've received the goods or service, you can't possibly undo the purchase as such, so the only question is whether the business gets its money or not.

From my perspective as the customer, carrying cash fixes that risk completely. Even if they can't take the cash, well that's their failing not mine. :2twocents
Click to expand...

That happened a few weeks ago in a town called Wallaroo. The eftpos facility for all businesses went down over a weekend, and the single ATM had issues. Businesses had to let people go on a hope that they would transfer money owed, on channel 7 news the caravan park manager said that they received no payments as people left, with some people leaving because Telstra was down and they couldn’t communicate with anyone.
 
JohnDe said:
That happened a few weeks ago in a town called Wallaroo. The eftpos facility for all businesses went down over a weekend, and the single ATM had issues. Businesses had to let people go on a hope that they would transfer money owed, on channel 7 news the caravan park manager said that they received no payments as people left, with some people leaving because Telstra was down and they couldn’t communicate with anyone.
Click to expand...
@JohnDe Asi see it there are those that believe it is plastic or On-line transactions or nothing. Great if citycentric.
Though we are not out past the black stump we still have internet issues.
Some businesses we deal with still welcome cheques and cash, and as such we will always be carrying some.
 
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