Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Cashless society

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JohnDe said:
That's true. Just like the extra costs that a business must wear and pass onto the consumer.

I wonder what the big companies like Coles, Woolies and Bunnings do when their POS network go down. Do they have a backup?
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Can't divulge too much due to NDA's.
As a service agent we see rarely see EFTPOS networks offline but it does happen.
POS system network failures are even rarer.

POS. Without getting into specifics, supermarkets/big business have their own intranets and IT teams. Issues can and do arise internally and/or externally from failed s/ware upgrades, h/ware failures and/or infrastucture issues however, these are usually resolved very, very quickly. Certainly in less time than the Optus debacle.

EFTPOS is a different matter as these need to interface with the financial institution of choice and involve more than one just the store intranet thus, more points of failure inherent in these systems. Failures often prove to be on the bank and/or telco side.

Note that when the EFTPOS goes down, cash is always accepted. On the flip side, when a cash self checkout fails due to a note and/or coin h/ware fault, the checkout is placed into Card Only mode.

Back to telco's.
We recently upgraded netword equip. for a govt, dept. Devices had two SIM cards, primary provider Optus, backup (you guessed it) Telstra.

As part owner of a micro business, I feel the pain of those that have lost revenue and probably lost faith in "the system" but hopefully, many have realised that cash will always be king.
 
Craton said:
Can't divulge too much due to NDA's.
As a service agent we see rarely see EFTPOS networks offline but it does happen.
POS system network failures are even rarer.

POS. Without getting into specifics, supermarkets/big business have their own intranets and IT teams. Issues can and do arise internally and/or externally from failed s/ware upgrades, h/ware failures and/or infrastucture issues however, these are usually resolved very, very quickly. Certainly in less time than the Optus debacle.

EFTPOS is a different matter as these need to interface with the financial institution of choice and involve more than one just the store intranet thus, more points of failure inherent in these systems. Failures often prove to be on the bank and/or telco side.

Note that when the EFTPOS goes down, cash is always accepted. On the flip side, when a cash self checkout fails due to a note and/or coin h/ware fault, the checkout is placed into Card Only mode.

Back to telco's.
We recently upgraded netword equip. for a govt, dept. Devices had two SIM cards, primary provider Optus, backup (you guessed it) Telstra.

As part owner of a micro business, I feel the pain of those that have lost revenue and probably lost faith in "the system" but hopefully, many have realised that cash will always be king.
Click to expand...

Thanks Craton, I now have a better understanding of why the big stores can't accept cards when the banks have an issue. It wouldn't matter how good the backup system is, if telecommunications go down and the bank is affected there is no way that payment is going through. I believe that some POS systems are meant to be able to record card details, but how will that work with a debit card with insufficient funds?

Yes, cash is king and for a bit longer than expected.
 
JohnDe said:
You are partly correct, but what you miss is that a business's EFTPOS facility has an inbuilt wireless network that is proprietary based and managed by the bank.

I own a business, I use Telstra for phone and internet at my bricks and mortar, The Telstra modem is a business type fiber to the node, with a built-in sim wireless backup. I also have my own backup modem with a different provider (saved me a few times) and also provides my mobile network for several business phones. There is a UPS battery backup for the PC system and the EFTPOS facility.

The POS facility I use (which I was told is the newest & greatest) is 4G with a 3G backup, there is no function to use your own internet connection, I presume that is because of security concerns.
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I would agree , the issue is not on a small business, more that an hospital or a national payment system could not have a redundancy plan inbuilt.
Not to say redundancy system within Optus 😣, but when the focus is on LGBT,the Voice and making sure you have a non white male heterosexual ceo, what do you expect..time to wake up
 
We talked about a system outage playing havoc in a digital society for years. Trusting banks and big corporations to handle the decision around payments is the first mistake.
People couldn't even access enough cash from ATM's.
Shops just shut for the day and business still had to pay for employees.

Optus ceo is a clown was she a diversity hire?. Makes you worry about the level of incompetence in the future.
 
moXJO said:
We talked about a system outage playing havoc in a digital society for years. Trusting banks and big corporations to handle the decision around payments is the first mistake.
People couldn't even access enough cash from ATM's.
Shops just shut for the day and business still had to pay for employees.

Optus ceo is a clown was she a diversity hire?. Makes you worry about the level of incompetence in the future.
Click to expand...
Cash-loving Aussies are using Wednesday’s nationwide Optus outage as “proof” that becoming a completely cashless society would be a “total disaster”.

Aussies who have been pushing back against the phasing out of physical money used the outage as fuel, saying the ensuing chaos is undeniable truth that “cash is king”.

Now, they are turning on the government and the banks, slamming the decision to reduce the number of ATMs and bank branches.

APRA’s latest findings, covering the 12 months leading up to June 2023, show 424 bank branches or 11 per cent of Australia’s overall branches, have disappeared.

The data highlighted a rapidly declining trend in the number of ATMs available to the public.

The past year witnessed an 11 per cent reduction in the number of ATMs, with more than 700 cash machines removed.

Since 2017, Australia has seen a staggering 60 per cent decrease in operational ATMs, leaving fewer than 6000 cash machines across the country.

Many people have taken aim at cashless businesses, saying it is “hilarious” that places that previously refused cash are now “begging for us to find the nearest ATM”.
 
So to take out Australia, you just need an attack on a few key exchanges.

Funny how the more things advance, the less robust the system. When things are too interconnected, it's very easy to take the whole thing down.
 
moXJO said:
So to take out Australia, you just need an attack on a few key exchanges.

Funny how the more things advance, the less robust the system. When things are too interconnected, it's very easy to take the whole thing down.
Click to expand...
yep

it is called 'centralized control '

interesting times ahead

( even more interesting when the 'nice guys' can see these flaws as well )
 
They keep telling us that a cashless economy is cheaper for consumers and business, that cash is a dinosaur in the 21stC and more expensive than electronic funds. Yeah, righto!

Small businesses told to pursue Optus for compo
The small business Ombudsman says the $2 loss claim by Optus is a joke and advises those out of pocket from the outage to seek compensation from the telco.

Small businesses who were impacted by a major outage which wreaked havoc across the Australian economy this week have been called upon as the industry ombudsman looks to pursue compensation claims.

The $2 loss claim by Optus chief executive Kelly Bayer Rosmarin was outright rejected by the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, who claims the telco’s response to customers has been “inadequate”.
“We reject suggestions by Optus that the loss for a small business is $2 a day. This is what Optus charges for their services, not what the consequences and loss of that service has cost small businesses in lost income and customers,” Ombudsman Bruce Billson said.

Australian small businesses, which the Ombudsman said employs about one fifth of the nation, deserve “respect” and for their losses to be acknowledged.

“Australia’s 2.5 million small businesses provide jobs for 5.1 million people and employ 42pc of all apprentices and trainees in training – nearly double the amount supported by a big business. They deserve respect and not to be treated in such a shabby way by Optus,” Mr Billson said.

The Ombudsman considered telecommunications an essential service, adding it was crucial for many small businesses to operate.

“The response by Optus is inadequate and not sufficiently dealt with by an offer of extra data,” Mr Billson said.

“Small businesses rely on telecommunications as an essential service, but they have been poorly served by Optus throughout this event and some have suffered a significant economic cost.”

The Ombudsman has called on Optus to acknowledge the role it plays as a network provider and how an outage of its network impacts the Australian economy.

“More needs to be done to acknowledge this impact on the livelihoods of our small and family businesses with a more tailored response,” he said.
Click to expand...
 
Back on topic.
On my interweb travels, PHON has this on the proposed Digital ID Bill and thus, the implications of the demise of cash along with our rights.
To be clear, the WEF is the backbone from which the Australian government is drafting Digital Identity policy and the assumptions made by the WEF to justify their recommendations are, frankly, wrong – both historically and logically. To give one example, the need for swift digitisation is based on a prediction that nationalistic tendencies driven by competition for pandemic resources will see countries isolate themselves from the global market and sink into recession. We know from history that nations do the reverse – they expand into trade after traumatic events and the less intervention from global authorities, the better as countries find their economic niches mores quickly.

The Australian government do not challenge any of these assumptions, but rather assumed them as fact with the WEF’s recommendations littered throughout the Bill.

Part of this framework is a concept called ‘Human-centric digital identities’ – which is essentially what the Australian government is attempting to create as a form of ‘alleviation from global health risks’. The description of Trusted Digital Identity in the linked WEF policy is nearly identical to the Australian legislation.
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It's alarming how Big Brother stealthy, covert tactics impinge behind the scenes.

From another source:

One organisation already linked to our government.This organisation already has biometrics and AI digital ID technology. That means no escape, no free speech, no freedom because everything you say, do, buy etc will be flagged by AI. It is a social credit system, plain and simple. See red box in the picture. “Deep learning”.
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I can't help but think and shudder at how Nth Korea and China have so much digital and total control already over their flocks.

I truly feel for our next generations and the world I/we leave behind for them. The seemingly innocent and carefree days of my youth will be but a long, distant memory. The best isn't yet to come, it's been and gone...
 
wayneL said:
Cashless, Yay!

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The banks may want a cashless society and the supermarkets also. But when the piece of plastic can't be used then watch the peasants revolt.
We had a minor meltdown recently when the supermarket where she shops had no card facilities working. When she got to the checkout, cash only.
First time in yonks she wasn't cashed up.
Left a weeks shopping in the trolley at the checkout, which included frozen and perishable items.
More than 1 did that that afternoon.
 

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