Cashless society

[farmerge]

I just found out a neighbour was subject to card fraud to the tune of $75,000.

$75k is not a pittance to have fraudulently swiped out of the account. It hurst me just to think about it.

 

[wayneL]

I just found out a neighbour was subject to card fraud to the tune of $75,000.

I found out a bit more about this case. It's an elderly couple in their 70s, he has terminal cancer and probably does not have that long to live

It all started when they drive to phone their children but their mobile phone was not connected. Somebody was able to port their number over to another phone. Son had an awful feeling and got them to check their bank account which had been completely drained apart from about six dollars.

Absolutely heartless and shows how vulnerable the digital system actually is. They have apparently been reimbursed by the bank (Macquarie I believe), but certainly a horrible stress for people at their stage of life.

 

[JohnDe]

I found out a bit more about this case. It's an elderly couple in their 70s, he has terminal cancer and probably does not have that long to live

It all started when they drive to phone their children but their mobile phone was not connected. Somebody was able to port their number over to another phone. Son had an awful feeling and got them to check their bank account which had been completely drained apart from about six dollars.

Absolutely heartless and shows how vulnerable the digital system actually is. They have apparently been reimbursed by the bank (Macquarie I believe), but certainly a horrible stress for people at their stage of life.

Banks are tightening up their reimbursement policies, making it harder.

Once cash is gone and there’s no choice, watch the banks turn around and virtually shut down their policy of reimbursing fraud cases.

 

[farmerge]

Banks are tightening up their reimbursement policies, making it harder.

Once cash is gone and there’s no choice, watch the banks turn around and virtually shut down their policy of reimbursing fraud cases.

Ah that bottom line on the balance sheet. It must always be in the black with nothing in parenthesis.

 

[Value Collector]

$75k is not a pittance to have fraudulently swiped out of the account. It hurst me just to think about it.

Well as Wayne said they didn’t actually end up losing anything.

Normally when you dig into these stories the victim has made a series of mistakes, I think it’s just going to take time for the different generations to get used to scams.

 

[JohnDe]

If you get your coffee and snacks from Gloria Jean’s, be prepared pay using the cashless system. Last time I was in one was pre-Covid, coffee and service were horrible.

We will be seeing more shops going cashless more often than not, especially franchises.

Aussies express anger as Gloria Jean’s stores go cashless

Some Gloria Jean’s stores are going cashless.

From September 11, the company will no longer accept cash at the cafes it owns.

“We believe that going cashless will not only create a safer environment for our staff but also streamline operations, allowing us to serve our customers more efficiently,” a spokeswoman for owner Retail Food group told Nine News.

“The vast majority of Gloria Jean’s outlets are owned and operated by our valued franchise partners who set their own policies regarding cash handling.”

news.com.au has contacted the company for comment.

A picture of a sign seen at one store notifying customers of the change was shared to a local community Facebook group and met with outrage.

People claimed they would boycott the Melbourne store as a result.

“Looks like they will also be going customerless,” quipped one man.

“Not getting my business and what happens when the internet goes down?” wrote one woman.

Is it free when the internet is down?” said another.

“Bad business. Hope this ends bad, man,” wrote someone else.

“I’ll not get coffee there. Plenty places who still take cash. Sick of all the added surcharges added to each transaction,” added another Melburnian.

According to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission website, a business does not have to accept cash but if there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed prices for the product.

Dr Angel Zhong, an associate professor of finance at RMIT, previously told news.com.au Australia was leading the way globally on going cashless.

“We have surpassed the US and Europe in the adoption of digital payments,” she said. “We are also the birthplace of large scale buy now pay later services, such as Zip and Afterpay.”

The Reserve Bank of Australia says the Covid pandemic accelerated decline in cash use.

Only around 13 per cent of payments were made using cash in 2022, according to the RBA’s consumer payments survey.

Dr Zhong said this was a stark contrast to 70 per cent in 2007.

“The use of digital wallet payments on smartphones and watches has soared from $746 million in 2018 to over $93 billion in 2022,” she added.

Dr Zhong explained that even people who don’t use cash can be concerned about moving towards a cashless society for reasons including privacy concerns, security risks and dependency on technology.

Research from payments technology company Waave found earlier this year that seven in 10 Aussies are concerned, while two in five Aussies are extremely concerned about notes and coins becoming relics.

However, Dr Zhong predicts a “functionally” cashless society in Australia by 2030 due to consumer preferences.

She explained in a functionally cashless society, the percentage of cashless payments will be over 90 per cent, making cash payments rare.

 

[wayneL]

If you get your coffee and snacks from Gloria Jean’s, be prepared pay using the cashless system. Last time I was in one was pre-Covid, coffee and service were horrible.

We will be seeing more shops going cashless more often than not, especially franchises.

I'd love to be able to write them off for this, but have already done so years ago for having totally s*** coffee.

I hope they go broke.

 

[wayneL]

A little blast from the past... Imagine if something like this happened now:

1998 Auckland power crisis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[investtrader]

I paid for a business airfare (two fares actually) with my card. Airline went broke and I got a full refund from the card company (Amex from memory)

 

[farmerge]

I paid for a business airfare (two fares actually) with my card. Airline went broke and I got a full refund from the card company (Amex from memory)

Well, I would count yourself very lucky to get that refund without a fight.

 

[moXJO]

$50 cash probably attracts the initial atm fee and can circulate for ages without attracting more fees. $50 in the cashless system just keeps attracting bank fees.

Great for banks.

 

[moXJO]

If you get your coffee and snacks from Gloria Jean’s, be prepared pay using the cashless system. Last time I was in one was pre-Covid, coffee and service were horrible.

We will be seeing more shops going cashless more often than not, especially franchises.

All the stores went broke where I am.

 

[divs4ever]

A little blast from the past... Imagine if something like this happened now:

1998 Auckland power crisis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

i don't have to imagine ( although not in NZ in that period )

i experienced a similar period in Queensland in the 1980's

but sometimes folks insist on not listening to second-hand experience

 

[Value Collector]

$50 cash probably attracts the initial atm fee and can circulate for ages without attracting more fees. $50 in the cashless system just keeps attracting bank fees.

Great for banks.

That’s not true, if you spend that $50 at a business like Woolworths they pay an armed guard to collect it and deposit it back to the bank (or others pay staff or the owners time) then there is costs in the bank compiling all the coins back into those cardboard rolls etc and distributing them again.

Not to mention the money wears out and needs replacing sooner if it’s used more.

Both forms of payment have costs, as I explained cash costs are largely fixed whether is $50 or $5,000. So if you accept $50 you may as well try and get the rest of the people to pay cash to so you tack on a fee to digital. But if 90% of people are paying digital, you might also just go cashless, because the cost of processing the cash becomes very high.

 

[Value Collector]

Gloria jeans is just an example of a business that probably gets such a small amount of cash on a daily business, that the cost of handling it is to high. So they are choosing to go digital.

I used to be a small business owner, and received a small percentage of cash transactions, I much preferred digital, the 0.74% fee was well worth it to avoid trips to the bank.

I used to offer fee cash out with no purchase which cost me money, just to save a trip to the bank and get rid of the cash previous customers spent.

 

[Value Collector]

i don't have to imagine ( although not in NZ in that period )

i experienced a similar period in Queensland in the 1980's

but sometimes folks insist on not listening to second-hand experience

Most businesses would be closed in that situation, and ATM’s won’t be working anyway.

Also, can I just point out, you don’t need the internet working on your phone or watch to make digital purchases, it works even if you have your device in airplane mode.

 

[divs4ever]

Most businesses would be closed in that situation, and ATM’s won’t be working anyway.

Also, can I just point out, you don’t need the internet working on your phone or watch to make digital purchases, it works even if you have your device in airplane mode.

was working in a major multi-story hotel in the centre of the city at the time , very inconvenient , turns out the emergency generators weren't up to the job , and we aren't just talking about payments ( which used a reasonable selection of cheques and plastic cards , not so much cash for the accommodation , and restaurants )

the 'device' is having enough issues in central Warwick with 'full service ' thanks to the network 'upgrades '

but this is 'progress ' ( convenience when it works )

 

[JohnDe]

$50 cash probably attracts the initial atm fee and can circulate for ages without attracting more fees. $50 in the cashless system just keeps attracting bank fees.

Great for banks.

Cash also helps initiate human to human contact and conversation.

It seems that we’re going through a loneliness crisis, causing mental health issues and anxiety. One of the factors mentioned was decreased interaction with other people, with the increase of contactless purchases and payments.

National approach needed to tackle loneliness ‘epidemic’. - ABC listen

Several states and territories have commissioned inquiries into the growing problem of loneliness which affects one in three Australians at any given time. But calls on the Federal Government to fund a coordinated national approach are being ignored despite the significant threat loneliness...

www.abc.net.au

 

[Value Hunter]

That’s not true, if you spend that $50 at a business like Woolworths they pay an armed guard to collect it and deposit it back to the bank (or others pay staff or the owners time) then there is costs in the bank compiling all the coins back into those cardboard rolls etc and distributing them again.

Not to mention the money wears out and needs replacing sooner if it’s used more.

Both forms of payment have costs, as I explained cash costs are largely fixed whether is $50 or $5,000. So if you accept $50 you may as well try and get the rest of the people to pay cash to so you tack on a fee to digital. But if 90% of people are paying digital, you might also just go cashless, because the cost of processing the cash becomes very high.

I don't necessarily agree that Cash costs are largely fixed. In the case of large corporations yes, in the case of small business not necessarily. If you are a small business and you only take in for example $1000 of cash per week (because most people are paying by card) then the owner is most likely not going to pay Arma-Guard to come and collect the cash as its not worth it, he can just take the money to the bank himself once per week. However if the same business was taking in $20,000 of cash per week they would likely pay Arma-Guard to come and collect it.

There are also many small business paying staff (international students, backpackers, etc) in cash or the owners salary in cash so they don't even have to bank the cash.

 

[Value Hunter]

It seems that we’re going through a loneliness crisis, causing mental health issues and anxiety. One of the factors mentioned was decreased interaction with other people, with the increase of contactless purchases and payments.

Even worse is self ordering kiosks, self serve checkouts, etc. That totally removes human interaction from the experience.

A few weeks ago I was at a shoe store and they had a self serve kiosk where you could order in stock that they didn't have on the shelf or was out of stock etc instead of the traditional way of speaking to a staff member and them placing the order for you.

I think in the next ten years for example you could see in shops like Bunnings that they will have self serve map kiosks like a Westfield does except the map will direct to the exact aisle and bay that the item you are looking for is in (instead of asking a staff member).

All of this does increase productivity but it makes people lonelier. I think eventually when flying drone technology improves and the regulation catches up, people will just order stuff from the internet and it will be delivered to their house for free via drones within 2 - 3 hours and so a lot of traditional retail stores will die off.

Especially this will accelerate in another 50 years time when virtual reality is fully rolled out. Imagine people being able to virtually shop in a virtual store and see and touch all the merchandise, try on clothes etc. Then business wouldn't need to pay rent to have a physical shop front and would just deliver the product via drones to people's houses.