CanOz's Capital - a virtual prop shop

[CanOz]

Probably best to setup a Skype call scholesy....please pm me and we can make some arrangements.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

3 part series on Youtube called 'Million Dollar Traders'. Exactly what you're proposing here Canoz. Have you seen it?

 

[CanOz]

Yeah, it's a few years old.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Yeah, it's a few years old.

The supervisor is a good example of what not to do!

Constantly berating his traders for not making money . I wish someone would say to him "Can you trade, pal? Let's see you do it then!". The ugly truth of his situation is that he cannot do it himself, otherwise he would. He'd rather sit there and tell others what to do them blame them when it doesn't result in profit. Not cool.

The ex IBM IT guy Simon is an interesting study of how overthinking destroys profits.

 

[scholesy]

3 part series on Youtube called 'Million Dollar Traders'. Exactly what you're proposing here Canoz. Have you seen it?

The style would be very different as well. Those guys were not really intra-day traders. More like Global Macro investors finding Long-Short stock trade ideas looking for a 5%-25% return with high sharpe ratio and low volatility over the year.

 

[CanOz]

A little update.


Work is starting on the business, I now have my own clearing firm proposal with risk management. Still working on a deal for the training. Business name is being registered soon. I'll have the training program complete by mid July.


I'll also have a profile of the ideal trainee candidate completed but at the moment I'm still looking for one more person that has the time, money for expenses, and a demonstrated track record of tenacity or competitive spirit.


Aiming to start training around the 17th of July.


Pm me if you are interested.

 

[OmegaTrader]

A little update.


Work is starting on the business, I now have my own clearing firm proposal with risk management. Still working on a deal for the training. Business name is being registered soon. I'll have the training program complete by mid July.


I'll also have a profile of the ideal trainee candidate completed but at the moment I'm still looking for one more person that has the time, money for expenses, and a demonstrated track record of tenacity or competitive spirit.


Aiming to start training around the 17th of July.


Pm me if you are interested.

Any updates on how it is going??

 

[CanOz]

Not much new here. I'm not taking on any new recruits as the time availability is just not materialising. At the moment I'm trying to decide whether or not to move back into my external office as it's not productive working from home....

So just plodding along with one trainee at the moment.

 

[CanOz]

Bit of an update here. Initially i was expecting to be able to do this fulltime once our nanny started. Having two kids, a wife and nanny living under one roof in a 3 bedroom townhouse is quite challenging. My office is a sharded playroom in the garage. Our house plan has now been submitted as a DA because of the design...its taken over a year to get to this stage....its been a very frustrating year and i simply have no solitary time available. To make matters even more frustrating, the body corporate is forcing me to remove the internet cable i have inconspicuously draped outside the family room window to the garage....i'll have to go back to WIFI. So in a nutshell, i have more delays in getting my business of the ground. My trading is taking a more systematic approach although when i do have time i still trade GC, CL, FGBL and the DAX. I;m not guiiving up on the Prop concept and i'll keep coaching the guys i have now, but i won't be doing much in the way of formal recruiting or training of anyone new.

Seems like life is getting in the way of my passion. I knew this when i wanted kids, but just underestimated the time commitment when they're at this age.

 

[skc]

Seems like life is getting in the way of my passion. I knew this when i wanted kids, but just underestimated the time commitment when they're at this age.

Life happens! I know what you mean though. I am sure if I was to plot a chart of "kids hours at home" vs "trading P&L" there'd be a statistically significant relationship.

As the old saying goes, the market will always be there... but your kids are only kids for so long.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Was it possible to train people into profitability? In other words, is a systematic approach to trading sufficient to ensure profit, or are other factors at play? The famous Turtle experiment inidcated that profitability was heavily shaped by attitudinal factors, which is why I ask.

 

[CanOz]

I didn't train anyone, my plan in the bin as soon as my nanny quit, i became the nanny.

Of course its possible, how do you think Prop Shops survive?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I didn't train anyone, my plan in the bin as soon as my nanny quit, i became the nanny.

Of course its possible, how do you think Prop Shops survive?

I have always thought they survive by the fact they can attract a huge number of applicants (with the potential for big $), and then cherry pick guys who already have the necessary mental attributes for success. Once identified, such guys could trade an MACD cross system and make it profitable.

I bet if you had minwa and told him to only trade MACD cross (no news feeds, no volume, no lines or squggles), but allow him to choose which trades to take, he'd make it work.

 

[CanOz]

GB, unfortunately its not that simple. But i'm going to leave it there as you obviously have some of your own beliefs and i don't want to change them.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

GB, unfortunately its not that simple. But i'm going to leave it there as you obviously have some of your own beliefs and i don't want to change them.

How simple is it then?

All approaches to trading (and the signals they generate) can be encoded to run automatically, even news feeds. So if a prop shop has something reasonably profitable, why on earth would they employ 20 guys to implement it for them and split the profits? Makes no sense.

I reckon what they are doing is saying "ok, we want people who have the attitude and beliefs which create success" and then overlay a few rules like daily loss limits, exposure, portfolio heat etc. I have no problem if that's what they do, but let's not pretend they teach them how to trade.

 

[tech/a]

I have always found the world of Prop trading of interest.

I remember T/H many years ago finding trading the HSI
like a licence to print money.
To the point of trading a day or two for mates down on
their luck and handing over $50K. That's a great mate
right there!

I remember asking him that if it was that easy to pick up
$50K---even a month not days---why trade prop.

His answer was there is nothing like being able to trade size.

I get that 100 lot as against a few lot---different strategies and
if your big enough can help hunt levels.

As Can says Not that easy---simple.

 

[tech/a]

I don't know about that

If A duck can trade then anyone can trade.

 

[ducati916]

How simple is it then?

All approaches to trading (and the signals they generate) can be encoded to run automatically, even news feeds. So if a prop shop has something reasonably profitable, why on earth would they employ 20 guys to implement it for them and split the profits? Makes no sense.

I reckon what they are doing is saying "ok, we want people who have the attitude and beliefs which create success" and then overlay a few rules like daily loss limits, exposure, portfolio heat etc. I have no problem if that's what they do, but let's not pretend they teach them how to trade.

When I traded with Bright a number of years ago you [the trader] had to put in your own capital. This was held with Goldman Sachs and they provided the leverage, up to 100:1 intra-day, more if you had clearance.

Bright [the firm] got a cut of the commissions on a per share basis from GS. Commissions were definitely lower than you would [as the trader] get if you were trading your own account, so it was [sort of] a win-win.

The primary strategy [at the time] was bracket trades. These trades only ran from the open for about 30mins and then closed out. To make it profitable in dollars, lots of leverage, lots of trades. At the time, it worked well.

There were a few other strategies, most worked reasonably well, all really basic and simple. Generally simple is best.

jog on
duc

 

[lmz4005]

Hi Tech/a, CanOz.

I am newish on this forum but interested in this chat thread.

I have been trading ASX for years (swing/Momentum trades holding for 2weeks to 4 month) with fairly consistent positive returns.

I am now looking at some day trading strategy. Currently paper day trading on 5mins / 30mins charts at the open trying to capture a move for most of the day using a trailing stop.

I usually wait 3 5mins bars before making any trading decision. If news related I feel that 5mins is too slow. I wonder if I should switch to 1-2mins for news.

Any views?

Thanks
Laurent
Brisbane

 

[tech/a]

IMZ4005

Couple of questions.
What priced stocks are you trading.

Micro's
Small caps
Blue chips etc.

What sort of capital base?

If your trading for a living you'd need about an average of $900 a day.
In my opinion--to pay a mortgage, finance a family and tax provisions.

If its a bit of a sideline then that's different.

For you and others investigating this path have you considered
E minis and Futures.
Way way more liquidity and in my view better to trade.


https://www.investopedia.com/univer...ini-futures-contracts/what-are-the-eminis.asp

In answer to your question

It depends on liquidity.
Without it charting in lower time-frames is pretty useless.
Your better off cutting out the noise and trading higher time-frames
and a little longer time horizon.
I know your dilemma---seeing a stock fly up in the first 5 min.
Never to return for an opportunity, which can mean a longer
2-3 day opportunity. Or often in Futures worth fading.
I very rarely Day trade aussi Stocks but often trade and hr or 2
the DAX