Bringing back Australian Manufacturing: Discard programmed obsolescence

[SirRumpole]

Anyway, I think you guys need a bit more Adam Smith in your life, so I will leave this here.

Any ideas why China a basically, authoritarian communist country is now the richest country in the world, and the paragon of capitalism the US is declining?

 

[qldfrog]

Any ideas why China a basically, authoritarian communist country is now the richest country in the world, and the paragon of capitalism the US is declining?

Because America is more communist than China , and China a model of raw capitalism in many areas

 

[divs4ever]

Maybe it does not make sense to build cars, but the fact we struggle to move up the vaule chain, at all, is a joke.

maybe a very sad , twisted joke .. but yes i agree on the sentiment

but we can build cars , especially as there is a fad toward electric vehicles , slash some government meddling ( i mean regulations )

and Oz could be awash with glorified golf carts for town and city work

 

[divs4ever]

Any ideas why China a basically, authoritarian communist country is now the richest country in the world, and the paragon of capitalism the US is declining?

yes because the US and EU are run by greedy kleptocrats ( not statesmen/women )

if it were pure capitalism maybe the US would still be thriving ( but losing ground to the massive work-forces in China and India )

 

[divs4ever]

You haven't been to India, have you?

no , but a former co-worker went there for several extended trips ( to handle family affairs )

BUT there is massive room for rational improvement , lets hope India avoids the mistakes of others growing in major economies before it

 

[dyna]

Fortunately no.

Amen , Bro .

Don't go . Just don't .

Take it from someone who has . Twice in fact . On a flamin' motorcycle ! How's that for insanity ? ( then again ,you take your life in your hands , just breathing the air in that part of the world )

 

[Value Collector]

Any ideas why China a basically, authoritarian communist country is now the richest country in the world, and the paragon of capitalism the US is declining?

China has gotten richer as they have taken on more capitalist principles, they have not gotten wealthy by being communist.

The USA is not really in decline, they could do a much better job and spreading the spoils of their productivity around though, eg bring in universal healthcare for instance.

I am the first one to admit the USA has a lot of problems, they don’t stem from basic capitalism though, they stem from a whole host of other political and religious ideologies.

 

[SirRumpole]

China has gotten richer as they have taken on more capitalist principles, they have not gotten wealthy by being communist.

The USA is not really in decline, they could do a much better job and spreading the spoils of their productivity around though, eg bring in universal healthcare for instance.

I am the first one to admit the USA has a lot of problems, they don’t stem from basic capitalism though, they stem from a whole host of other political and religious ideologies.

The Chinese government owns about 25% of their economy, most in strategic industries like energy.

I would like to find someone who thinks privatisation of energy in Australia was a good idea (for consumers that is not investors). Prices have just gone up and up and that affects our business and industry competitiveness as well as households.

 

[Value Collector]

1. The Chinese government owns about 25% of their economy, most in strategic industries like energy.

2. I would like to find someone who thinks privatisation of energy in Australia was a good idea (for consumers that is not investors). Prices have just gone up and up and that affects our business and industry competitiveness as well as households.

1. The australian government owns about 30% of every single company in Australia, of course we don’t issue the government a share certificate, they just take 30% of the profits through company tax. The Chinese government owning part of big businesses is kinda of the same thing. But, where the Chinese government invests into business it’s still using capitalist principles.

2. I think prices would have gone up either way, if the government hung on to the assets prices would have gone up still, whether that was on the bills or hidden in government losses and tax payer funding.

Some of the cheapest power grids in the USA are private.

 

[SirRumpole]

1. The australian government owns about 30% of every single company in Australia, of course we don’t issue the government a share certificate, they just take 30% of the profits through company tax. The Chinese government owning part of big businesses is kinda of the same thing. But, where the Chinese government invests into business it’s still using capitalist principles.

2. I think prices would have gone up either way, if the government hung on to the assets prices would have gone up still, whether that was on the bills or hidden in government losses and tax payer funding.

Some of the cheapest power grids in the USA are private.

US, much bigger market and more room for competition, so no real comparison.

I thought that you had enough of this thread. LOL.

 

[Value Collector]

1. US, much bigger market and more room for competition, so no real comparison.

I thought that you had enough of this thread. LOL.

1. How is that an answer to the private companies being lower cost than the government ones though?

I was in Omaha, and two areas that are divided only by a river had vastly different pricing, one serviced by a state owned utility where the electricity was double the price of the Berkshire Hathaway owned energy utility across the river in Iowa.

Warren Buffett’s own office pays double the amount for its electricity that it buys from the state than he sells to his customers about 5 kilometres away from his office on the other side of the river.

 

[SirRumpole]

Warren Buffett’s own office pays double the amount for its electricity that it buys from the state than he sells to his customers about 5 kilometres away from his office on the other side of the river.

And he's a great investor? Haha.

 

[Value Collector]

And he's a great investor? Haha.

Are you suggesting he move across the river to save money on his electric bill? That’s not the type of guy he is. His office is 5 mins from his house he has lived in for 70 years, I doubt he would commit to tripling his commute time to the office just to save on the electric bill, especially when his 24 person office probably uses hardly any electricity.

But, yeah offering low electricity rates has been a great strategy for his company, and allowed it to grow very fast, because regulators love them coming into their markets.

 

[Value Collector]

And he's a great investor? Haha.

I just realised you might have misunderstood what I said.

He isn’t buying expensive electricity and selling it at a loss.

He owns the grid and generation assets in Iowa, and sells the power to customers in Iowa for half the price that the government owned utility across the river in Omaha sells that it generates for its customers.

Warrens office is in Omaha, where the power is supplied by the state, so his power he consumes at his office is expensive.

But, across the river from his office the grid is privately owned by him, and the power is cheaper there.

 

[SirRumpole]

I just realised you might have misunderstood what I said.

He isn’t buying expensive electricity and selling it at a loss.

He owns the grid and generation assets in Iowa, and sells the power to customers in Iowa for half the price that the government owned utility across the river in Omaha sells that it generates for its customers.

Warrens office is in Omaha, where the power is supplied by the state, so his power he consumes at his office is expensive.

But, across the river from his office the grid is privately owned by him, and the power is cheaper there.

OK, so what produces the expensive power and what produces the cheap power?

Omaha, , coal, nuclear
Iowa, wind(60%), gas, coal, hydro.

An indication for us if we go down a certain p at.

 

[Value Collector]

OK, so what produces the expensive power and what produces the cheap power?

Omaha, , coal, nuclear
Iowa, wind(60%), gas, coal, hydro.

An indication for us if we go down a certain p at.

Yes so the expensive power is coal and nuclear, but it’s not just the generation that makes it expensive, it’s the inefficient state ownership model.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes so the expensive power is coal and nuclear, but it’s not just the generation that makes it expensive, it’s the inefficient state ownership model.

Not necessarily. When Australian Srates each owned their power networks they made power as cheap as possible to attract business and industry to their Srate.

Under private ownership there is no such incentive and its cost plus profit.

Power prices started to rise almost immediately the networks were sold.

 

[SirRumpole]

Not necessarily. When Australian Srates each owned their power networks they made power as cheap as possible to attract business and industry to their Srate.

Under private ownership there is no such incentive and its cost plus profit.

Power prices started to rise almost immediately the networks were sold.

Srate = State, sorry about that.