Boxer rejects drug test on religious grounds

[Buster]

so lets say he gets his way of say taking a blood test. Then someone else say blood test and looking at my penis is against my beliefs.

Then someone else says something else is against my beliefs.

Exactly.. I seem to remember the Jehovah Witness have some strict rules about blood..

When will it end? it doesnt, rules are rules - if you dont like em then dont play. Simple!

Yea, I'm a fan of black and white.. it seems that some people believe that rules shouldn't apply to them..

Cheers,

Buster.

 

[Julia]

I am interested in your opinion on the present status of women in the western society... especially considering the pr0n industry... both hardcore and softcore... (TV, magazines like zoo, etc...)... or the girls kidnapped from east europe / asia, etc to work as sex slaves... I may be wrong... but the booming pr0n industry, seemed to conincide with the womens liberation movement...

You also got to look at the stats on cosmetic surgery, and women always complaining about how its all about appearance now... to see that sometimes customs evolve in a society for a reason... (It wasn'nt that long ago...(couple of generations back) when even the western women were encouraged to 'cover up' and dress respectfully..)

I hope you do succeed in your quest to free muslim women... but I hope you also look around you and see the avg teenager on the street, or see the TV, magazines etc... who define 'cool' as the amount of skin that is exposed!

I am interested to hear what yours (and anyone elses) thoughts are on these other side effects...

Interesting points,Rafa. I don't think I'd agree that the booming pr0n industry necessarily relates to the women's movement. I'd be more inclined to attribute it to the greater sense within both men and women these days of being able to do what they want when they want, rather than to adhere to traditional roles.

Another example is the greater number of homosexuals, both male and female, who once would have conducted their relationships in secret, but who now behave no differently to heterosexual couples in public. That's fine with me. Never have thought that they should have to hide from view.

Many uni students these days will admit to prostitution as a means of earning enough money to get themselves through their study years. Seems sad, but I don't think we necessarily criticise them for it.

Another matter entirely, though, is young, mostly Asian girls who are imported here with the promise of a "genuine job" and then locked up in a brothel and forced to work for several years to "pay off their fares and fees".
They have no one to help them, minimal language skills, and thus little control of the situations in which they find themselves.

Really don't think it's right to blame the women's movement. Rather, a movement of "if I want it, I'll just go out and get it" etc. Applies to credit too.

Julia

 

[Bomba]

Pfft .... if you have nothing to hide you would do the test.

 

[wayneL]

Sorry to go further off topic...or is it on topic now?

There is a program on right now on SBS (WA time) about the rape and murder of women with apparent impunity in Guatemala. This is a "Christian" country.

While I'm no fan of fundamentalist Islamist culture and it's treatment of women, we shouldn't delude ourselves that any religious or ethnic group is exclusive in its mistreatment of women, children, or even animals for that matter.

 

[visual]

Visual...

The article you posted is more of a story of an overzealous person at the post office hypothesising why the passport office requires a close up photo of the face. Its for security reason and proper identification, especially of eye colour, incase your wondering... rather than anything to actually do with a muslim appeasement poilicy.

To be honest, I am struggling to work our your agenda in all this... ! Your obsession with womens right to expose and dress any way they want is quite incredible... You seem to be bringing up this topic on every thread (including the one on 9/11)....


Anyway, forget about that...

I am interested in your opinion on the present status of women in the western society... especially considering the pr0n industry... both hardcore and softcore... (TV, magazines like zoo, etc...)... or the girls kidnapped from east europe / asia, etc to work as sex slaves... I may be wrong... but the booming pr0n industry, seemed to conincide with the womens liberation movement...

You also got to look at the stats on cosmetic surgery, and women always complaining about how its all about appearance now... to see that sometimes customs evolve in a society for a reason... (It wasn'nt that long ago...(couple of generations back) when even the western women were encouraged to 'cover up' and dress respectfully..)

I hope you do succeed in your quest to free muslim women... but I hope you also look around you and see the avg teenager on the street, or see the TV, magazines etc... who define 'cool' as the amount of skin that is exposed!

I am interested to hear what yours (and anyone elses) thoughts are on these other side effects...

Rafa,
the status of women has improved over the years,but I dont think that we are where we should be yet,so as a consequence the exploitation of women continues. However when these problems are brought out in the open,women are not judged as being no longer even human,so thats a good thing. Also men still hold the most powerful positions in society,so to a degree women are still striving to impress them.
Maybe pr0n is more open today,but I dont think you can blame womens libbers for that,remember prostitution is the oldest profession in the world except now people make films. Womens libbers if anything transferred some of the power back to women so that rather than being exploited they choose,for whatever reason, to follow that path.

The difference, I know you were waiting for that,with muslim women is that to this day, the majority of the rules they have to live by are designed by men to the point not only of exploitation but also of oppression,so that what happens in the light in the west also happens in muslim countries but they dress it up in such a way that women are seen more as a commodity than humans. For example did you know that muslims have short marriages, essentially the pimp is the sheik who gives his blessing!for the marriage after a day or half a day or three weeks he also divorces them and then does it again for the next customer,money also changes hand so exactly the same motivation.

Also how much skin women show is irrelevant to how we should be treated. Yes in the past western women also had to cover up probably to the same degree as muslims,maybe not the face,but Rafa we progressed and we emancipated. Muslims havent. Sadly these days their religion is being blamed for that,which when you look into it,turns out to be lie.

Remember how rape was often blamed on what women wore or how they behaved,well now we know that rape is about power not about sex,so there goes your theory on how little girls wear these days.

 

[Prospector]

One of the issues in countries like Ethiopia is female circumcision. A truly evil practice. It is still being done in this century, and there are female children now in Australia who have had some kind of mutilation. The practice is done to ensure that women remain faithful to their spouses as it makes sex very very painful. But it also means that childbirth is excruciating, as you can imagine. It leads to major, major bowel and bladder issues, which, should they occur, mean that the woman is then abandoned by her spouse because she is then, er, very unhygienic.

Guess what, it is a practice of coptic CHRISTIANS........

The issue if man's inhumanity to women is still a long way from being addressed.

 

[visual]

I hope that I have`nt created the impression that muslims are the only ones nasty to women,however they are the ones who wrap religion and oppresion against women.The truly horrifyng part for me is the acceptance or silence that women especially practice when the issue is brought up.Everyone seems to run around screaming Not A Racist,well this is not about racism,these cultural practices should be condemned because they are wrong,regardless of how you view religion,oppression against women should be condemned full stop.

Maybe it`s unfounded but often I wonder how long before us immodest women are compared to the so modest muslims,and our climb out of the hell that women were in before is again part of our everyday lifes.


And Prospector you are right,often muslims will say that it`s an African cultural trait that of female circumsion,however not to many people are actually saying it out in mainstream media,are they? And the fact that they practice it also somehow once again gets wrapped in not being racist.

In fact its not just circumsion that they practice,I dont know whats its called but the other way of ensuring what you said,is to actually stich up that area,and unstich it when they have to have sex,I mean why is there no noise about this,why ?No one saying anything about human rights violation,oh no just meaningless talk about cultural practice and how it`s alright because its part of their religion.Only time you read about this stuff is when charity workers want to shock people into donating money or showing how well they are using the money donated,


And you are right,as awful as it sounds when you think of how women are treated,the person who said that theres a war going on is absolutely right. One half of the polulation is at war with the other half,men against women.

 

[Prospector]

In fact its not just circumsion that they practice,I dont know whats its called but the other way of ensuring what you said,is to actually stich up that area,and unstich it when they have to have sex,I mean why is there no noise about this,why ?No one saying anything about human rights violation,oh no just meaningless talk about cultural practice and how it`s alright because its part of their religion.Only time you read about this stuff is when charity workers want to shock people into donating money or showing how well they are using the money donated,.

..................



Yes, that's what it is alright, stitched up except the only time it is unstitched is during labour, if the woman is lucky! It stays stitched up during sex.

Why is there no noise - is there any oil in Ethiopia?

 

[Joe Blow]

Hmmmmmm... how did we get from drug tests to female circumcision?

 

[visual]

Sorry Joe,that would be me.
You see the boxer used his religion to try and manipulate the rules.It then flowed from there.

 

[visual]

..................



Yes, that's what it is alright, stitched up except the only time it is unstitched is during labour, if the woman is lucky! It stays stitched up during sex.

Why is there no noise - is there any oil in Ethiopia?

Prospector,we make up half the world population,why do we need oil? Why can`t the well educated who also have money,try a bit of manipulation themselves,by writing articles,by producing movies which address these myths,by educating our children at school. I am not saying that we all have to believe the same thing but these types of myths got started in the first place because they didn`t know any better,ok an excuse,but now we know better why the silence? And why from women? Mary Robinson the former president of Ireland years ago actually defended the burqa as a religious practice and they should be allowed to keep it. For God sake that crappy thing was forced on Afgani women by the taliban under threath of death.Why didn`t she seeing that she had the opportunity to do something, chose to perpetuate the myth?

 

[noirua]

These links are from Wikipedia. They cover a large number of dope tests up to the present day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_(sport)

 

[Rafa]

Vis, Julia, Prospector...
Thanks for your comments and opinions...

I tend to agree with all of them... I don't think western society is immune from female expliotation... Its just in another guise... I can't seem to work out why it happens... seems to be instinctive!

As far as religion goes... you'll find most religions don't stipulate anything... the rituals and customs actually get intertwined based on the cultural practises of the region in which that religion is predominantly practised...

e.g. as a christian, i am often amazed at the strict adherance to some of the rituals/customs in the church, when most of them actually come from original pagan practises in europe 2000 years ago... some of them are quite rediculous and have nothing to do with the original teachings... or the 'religion'!

oh well... education is the key...

 

[Prospector]

My fault too Joe! It really is a logical extension though. For a blonde, anyway! :

The original post links religion with behaviour and cultural practices, and I thought the thread was becoming rather negative about muslim practices, whereas there are fundamental issues with all extremist positions. And not a lot of people know how extremist some Christian groups are, and practices in Ethiopia in particular are very hushed up because they are, well, Christian in origin. And originated by men - against women, so double taboo!

Just thought I would ensure that people knew that it wasnt just extremist Muslim's who had some particularly nasty behaviours.....

 

[Prospector]

Prospector,we make up half the world population,why do we need oil?

Hey Vis, my point with oil is that unless a country has some, then the major powers will ignore any major issues within.

 

[noirua]

When it comes to stripping athletes of titles, there are question marks over who was stripped of a title and who wasn't. The UK's Linford Christie was a case where he was found guilty of using drugs in semi-retirement; So shouldn't he have been stripped of all his titles? There had been rumours before and a big question mark remains on the justice front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linford_Christie

 

[visual]

Hey Vis, my point with oil is that unless a country has some, then the major powers will ignore any major issues within.

Prospector,we don`t need oil,we have the ability to influence opinion through education.By keeping ourselves informed and informing those around us,so that the myths can be exposed and at least they won`t be spread.
Women didn`t have oil at their disposal when they started fighting for the vote,yet thanks to them we now vote,have the right to be educated,ect..

By the way Prospector it was never my intention to make this sound like it was only a muslim issue,as I said they have interwoven it with religion to such an extent that now the all thing is harder to unravel,but hopefully not impossible.

On a personal note,I can tell you that as a victim of abuse you don`t need to be a muslim to suffer by being born the wrong gender.I`m Italian,Catholic yet whenever some moron says women should,are ,blah blah blah.I just want to vomit with rage because I know that it`s all about violence and silence and acceptance.

 

[warney]

Sorry to go further off topic...or is it on topic now?

There is a program on right now on SBS (WA time) about the rape and murder of women with apparent impunity in Guatemala. This is a "Christian" country.

While I'm no fan of fundamentalist Islamist culture and it's treatment of women, we shouldn't delude ourselves that any religious or ethnic group is exclusive in its mistreatment of women, children, or even animals for that matter.

scary stuff, i dont think they will be CSI Guatemala anytime soon. random slaying of innocent people was portrayed as culture. also on lateline on the abc a former canadian mp is exposing a body parts cultivation program in china that has provided thousands of transplants and many unwilling donars have been murdered. glad to be an aussie.

 

[Julia]

Visual

"We don't need oil...." ????????

Julia

 

[visual]

Visual

"We don't need oil...." ????????

Julia

Julia,why do we need oil to spread information?
Bill Gates is doing it with money,I`m sure that womens right will filter through there slowly,but if we in the west replace the informed women ,with the uninformed ones,not much is going to be achieved will there.

For example why would we need oil for someone to go and talk,or highlight the plight of these women ,but often not only when the calendar rolls on the day of something for the victims of islam.And whatever we think, it is women and children who make up the number of their greatest victims.