Book title: How to win friends & influence people by Dale Carnegie

Picked this book last week and had a read... not finished yet. half way thru.

so far i get the impression that i cannot be my true self if i want to win friends and influence people. according to the book, i must change then.

anyone have read the book and any thoughts?

kerosam said:

Picked this book last week and had a read... not finished yet. half way thru.

so far i get the impression that i cannot be my true self if i want to win friends and influence people. according to the book, i must change then.

anyone have read the book and any thoughts?

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Perhaps "How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People" might suit better

The first self-help book!

It's biggest message, a good one, is to be concious of how you deliver information to people. His anecdotes get annoying after the first two chapters though.

doctorj said:

The first self-help book!

It's biggest message, a good one, is to be concious of how you deliver information to people. His anecdotes get annoying after the first two chapters though.

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Did the course for business speaking based on Carnegie's book through JP WERE several years ago. Changed my attitude out of site. Helped me get through and actually listen to my staff and clients.

As the others have mentioned it does get a little annoying in the book as some of its examples are now very outdated, but good form never goes out of style... I think I need to do that course again lol....

It can't hurt to read it. carnegie actually has many books in a series.


cheers,

On great business books and in particular if your growing a business here are a few.

Six Sigma for dummies.
The 80/20 principal.

Would help everyone to have a read.
Both of these are musts for business people.

Motivation
Any of Anthony Robbins.
Grow Rich while you Sleep was my first and it was fantastic,I still remember it.

If you want to read a book by Carnegie that had a great effect on me when I was a bit younger try to find the book he wrote on Abraham Lincoln and you will never complain about any form of hardship or obstacles in life ever again.

There is a relatively modern alternative to Norman Vincent Peale's book written by Martin E.P. Seligman, Ph.D., a highly regarded psychologist.

It is "Learned Optimism" and presents in easy to read style the basic mindset which psychologists have used in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.

Seligman describes the natural human tendency in most of us to "look for the cloud in the silver lining" and outlines easy to understand rationales for why we do this, and then suggests how we can change this outlook to a more optimistic view.

I first read it about ten years ago and found it far more useful than most of the hundreds of self help stuff on the bookshelves.

It has almost none of the irritating personal anecdote type "testimonials" which mar "The Power of Positive Thinking".

Julia

Then there could be a whole other thread on how effective this type of literature is in really altering our thinking, and/or, given that we make some alterations in our thinking, does that materially affect how we carry out our ordinary lives: does it change the way we interact with others, for example, or does "believing we can achieve something" really make it possible?

What do others think?

Julia

Julia.

My view is no.
You are either that type of personality or your not.
A round or a square peg.

While in very rare cases people may outwardly alter to suit a situation,I have found that if a person is a leader they will excell and grow in their leadership.They will have the respect of their peers as a natural consequence of their natural persona.

Others are happy to be followers and some struggle with trying to become leaders when this role doesnt suit or fit well with them or their peers.

Just showing 2 types.

The diversity of people is the core of humanity and if we all as individuals accept who we are and build on our own strengths,that we can identify are specific to ourselves,then we can grow as the individuals we are and are meant to be.

Thats what I think--

What is the effect of optimism on trading though? (or investing for that matter, Julia ) I reckon a can do attitude is definitely healthy in any situation but "she'll be right" syndrome or blind optimism would certainly chew your cash pretty hard. Im a cynic so that one shouldnt get me- always beware murphys law . Sorry its a bit off topic.

Hi Julia

My belief is yes you can learn to change a behaviour after all you learned the behaviours you already have. You only have to watch people, ourselves included to realise we are creatures of habit. To change a habit is much easier if you replace it with another habit. Ever watched Supernanny? Most of those families are very well off. They are obviously successful in their careers. However, when it comes to raising there children, they are emotional and ineffective to say the least. Supernanny observes and records their behaviour and gives them the lowdown. The parents are always shocked, dismayed and hurt. The pain and being shownup probably gives them the stimulus to want to change. Its then easier for Jo Frost to step in with some effective habits or strategies. The first thing she does is tell them they have a 'role and right' to parent or lead their children. The next thing she does is provide positive parenting strategies. The results are usually measureable. Hence we have some happy families.

Julia why not visit a Neural linguistic programming practitioner and find out for yourself? You can even get a Medicare rebate if it is put in the 'self-esteem' bracket. And be prepared to join a waiting list. By the way, some people only require one or two visits to get attainable results.You can access one at www.nlpinfo.com. And yes Milkman they are used to change or deactivate, addictive behaviours and also by all manner of people including performers and traders for programming purposes.

Cheers
Happytrader

Julia,

Julia said:

does "believing we can achieve something" really make it possible?

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Believing in your abilities is not about physically making something possible, but about giving you the confidence to at least attempt it and to persevere with it, even when the going gets tough.

I think many achievable goals are never reached simply because the person gave up on the idea as being too hard, or at the first set-back as not being possible.

Motivation and self-confidence give you the mind-set to give things a go and to persevere through the set-backs. Then only the things that truly are impossible can not be achieved.

Cheers,
GP

happytrader said:

Hi Julia

My belief is yes you can learn to change a behaviour after all you learned the behaviours you already have. You only have to watch people, ourselves included to realise we are creatures of habit. To change a habit is much easier if you replace it with another habit. Ever watched Supernanny? Most of those families are very well off. They are obviously successful in their careers. However, when it comes to raising there children, they are emotional and ineffective to say the least. Supernanny observes and records their behaviour and gives them the lowdown. The parents are always shocked, dismayed and hurt. The pain and being shownup probably gives them the stimulus to want to change. Its then easier for Jo Frost to step in with some effective habits or strategies. The first thing she does is tell them they have a 'role and right' to parent or lead their children. The next thing she does is provide positive parenting strategies. The results are usually measureable. Hence we have some happy families.

Julia why not visit a Neural linguistic programming practitioner and find out for yourself? You can even get a Medicare rebate if it is put in the 'self-esteem' bracket. And be prepared to join a waiting list. By the way, some people only require one or two visits to get attainable results.You can access one at www.nlpinfo.com. And yes Milkman they are used to change or deactivate, addictive behaviours and also by all manner of people including performers and traders for programming purposes.

Cheers
Happytrader

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Hi Happytrader,

I posed the question with the intention of stimulating debate in a subject that has interested me for years. Didn't mean to suggest I was wondering if my own behaviour can be changed.

I absolutely believe one's thoughts can determine how much we succeed (though not necessarily with regard to the stockmarket, Milkman!).
During difficult times in my life (e.g. divorce etc) I've found myself feeling pessimistic and cynical. By consciously putting those feelings aside (even getting a mental picture of plucking them out of my mind, packing them up, and sending them off) - yes, sounds fanciful but it worked at the time - and substituting positive thoughts and simple bloody minded determination to move on, I've been able to achieve what at one stage seemed impossible.

Have also demonstrated the same idea when training people. If you say to someone who is lacking in self confidence "I absolutely believe you can do this" almost always they will achieve the goal you have set them.
I believe that most people behave as we expect them to, in a negative as well as a positive sense. So if we suggest to someone that they are stupid, unlikeable, and have no skills, there isn't much chance they will go out and excel. But if you take someone who has heard this all their life, and gradually encourage them to believe they can achieve and that they are a valuable person with much to contribute, then with practice, they will.

None of that is actually disagreeing with what you said, Tech. The fundamental personality doesn't change. It's just had its potential realised as a result of changed beliefs permitting changes of behaviour. At the same time, I agree that there are natural leaders and natural followers. But if a follower decides he/she wants to become more like a leader, then it is entirely possible.

Julia

PS. My thoughts above have been based on adults.
I'm currently working with a 15 year old girl as part of a mentoring
programme, and finding her extreme behaviour problems are not easily
adjusted!! Any suggestions re teenagers gratefully received.

tech/a said:

Julia.

My view is no.
You are either that type of personality or your not.
Around or a square peg.

While in very rare cases people may outwardly alter to suit a situation,I have found that if a person is a leader they will excell and grow in their leadership.They will have the respect of their peers as a natural consequence of their natural persona.

Others are happy to be followers and some struggle with trying to become leaders when this role doesnt suit or fit well with them or their peers.

Just showing 2 types.

The diversity of people is the core of humanity and if we all as individuals accept who we are and build on our own strengths,that we can identify are specific to ourselves,then we can grow as the individuals we are and are meant to be.

Thats what I think--

Click to expand...

I think thats true.

But interestingly, true leaders may only emerge in a crisis. I see this time and time again. Someone who has hitherto been content to sit in the background, rises to lead when the "leaders" have been reduced to a dithering lump of uselessness.

The sad thing I see is that most "leaders" are adept at manipulation rather than true leadership. Sadder are the sheep who follow manipulators.

Like water, the sage abides in a humble place;
in meditation, without desire;
in thoughtfulness, he is profound,
and in his dealings, kind.
In speech, sincerity guides the man of Tao,
and as a leader, he is just.
In management, competence is his aim,
and he ensures the pacing is correct.

Because he does not act for his own ends,
nor cause unnecessary conflict,
he is held to be correct
in his actions towards his fellow man.

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Hi Julia

My post was merely to point out that their are extremely fast ways available to change a mindset to bring about change and to produce positive results. It doesnt particularly matter what specific area that might be. Why spend years or even months mulling and stagnating over something if you can get rapid results? If performance anxiety, following a plan, etc, etc is a hindrance this avenue maybe worth exploring.

Cheers
Happytrader

wayneL said:

I think thats true.

But interestingly, true leaders may only emerge in a crisis. I see this time and time again. Someone who has hitherto been content to sit in the background, rises to lead when the "leaders" have been reduced to a dithering lump of uselessness.

The sad thing I see is that most "leaders" are adept at manipulation rather than true leadership. Sadder are the sheep who follow manipulators.

Click to expand...

Wayne:

The above is especially true when it comes to politics.

Your quoted passage didn't come up on the "Reply with Quote" icon. It is great. Where is it from?

Julia

happytrader said:

Hi Julia

My post was merely to point out that their are extremely fast ways available to change a mindset to bring about change and to produce positive results. It doesnt particularly matter what specific area that might be. Why spend years or even months mulling and stagnating over something if you can get rapid results? If performance anxiety, following a plan, etc, etc is a hindrance this avenue maybe worth exploring.

Cheers
Happytrader

Click to expand...

Hi Happytrader,

Agreed entirely. Have just had a look at the neurolinguistic programming site you suggested in your earlier post. It's good. Very easy to follow for anyone who hasn't had any prior involvement in this field.

The basic idea is the same as that used in cognitive behaviour therapy which is so successful for many problems, particularly social phobias.

Julia

was just browsing and came across this thread and thought id just add my little bit . one of the better things to free my mind of preconceived and blind point of view was my embracing of critical thinking . really had a profound affect on my thought process . certainly a neccessary trait id you read a few forums where weight of opinion can sway commonsense at times. sometimes its hard to stand up to the crowd . now i first came across this on the turtles site and i still go back and read it on a regular basis . here it is for all to see


there is also some stuff on Neuro-Linguistic
Programming (NLP) on turtles

http://www.turtletrader.com/

......... pete

In the book Critical Thinking the essential thought processes of a Trend Follower are outlined:

Dispositions: Critical thinkers have dispositions that are skeptical and open-minded. They value fair-mindedness, respect evidence and reasoning, respect clarity and precision, look at different points of view, and will change positions when reason leads them to do so.

Criteria: To think critically, you must apply criteria. This means you need to set conditions that must be met for you to judge something as believable.

Argument: Is a statement or proposition with supporting evidence. Critical thinking involves identifying, evaluating, and constructing arguments.

Reasoning: You have the ability to infer a conclusion from one or multiple premises. To do so requires examining logical relationships among statements or data.

Point of View: POV is the way you view the world, which shapes your construction of meaning. In a search for understanding, critical thinkers view phenomena from many different points of view.

Procedures for Applying Criteria: Other types of thinking use a general procedure. Critical thinking makes use of many procedures. These procedures include asking questions, making judgments, and identifying assumptions.

Force Feeding the Students
Mindless memorization: Like fattening a goose before slaughter, force feeding students endless content in the form of declarative sentences and then asking them to remember the content is mindless teaching at its best, and mental torture at its worst.

The art of the question: We need questions to jumpstart our intellectual engines. Questions generate more questions until the student takes ownership of the material and focuses thinking on a process to gain the answer. The questions we ask determine where our thinking goes. When learners are asked to memorize facts, it’s as if they were told to repeatedly step on the brakes in a vehicle that is parked. Their mind goes nowhere.

Go below the surface: Deep questions drive our thoughts below the surface of things and force us to deal with the complexity of what is real.

Define the task: Purposeful questions force us to define our task. We must begin to evaluate information instead of mindlessly accepting it as truth. We begin to look at our sources of information as well as the quality.

Find Meaning: Questions of interpretation force us to examine how we are organizing or giving meaning to information.

Discover the facts: Questions of assumption force us to examine what we are taking for granted.

Show Direction: Questions of implication force us to follow through on where our thinking is going.

Find Context: Questions of point of view force us to examine our point of view and to consider other relevant points of view.

Focus: Questions of relevance force us to discriminate what does and what does not bear on a question.

Look for truth: Questions of accuracy force us to evaluate and test for truth and correctness.

Look for detail: Questions of precision force us to define details and be precise.

Self examine: Questions of consistency force us to examine our thinking for contradictions.

Put it all together: Questions of logic force us to consider how we are putting the whole of our thought together, to make sure that it all adds up and makes sense within a reasonable system.

Nice thread Brisvegas

Now you might like to add EFT to go with the NLP at www.emofree.com to your psychological arsenal.

Cheers
Happytrader

I read an intersting book by Sheldon Kopp many years ago called " If you meet the buddha on the road, Kill Him."

in the back of the book is this list:

An Eschatological Laundry List:
A partial register of the 927 eternal Truths

1. This is it!
2. There are no hidden meanings.
3. You can't get there from here, and besides, there's no place else
to go.
4. We are all already dying, and we will be dead for a long time.
5. Nothing lasts.
6. There is no way of getting all you want.
7. You can't have anything unless you let go of it.
8. You only get to keep what you give away.
9. There is no particular reason why you lost out on some things.
10. The world is not necessarily just. Being good often does not pay
off and there is no compensation for misfortune.
11. You have a responsibility to do your best nonetheless.
12. It is a random universe to which we bring meaning.
13. You don't really control anything.
14. You can't make anyone love you.
15. No one else is any stronger or any weaker than anyone else.
16. Everyone is, in his own way, vulnerable.
17. There are no great men.
18. If you have a hero look again: you have diminished yourself in
some way.
19. Everyone lies, cheats and pretends. (Yes, you too, and most
certainly, I myself.)
20. All evil is potential vitality in need of transformation.
21. All of you is worth something, if you only own it.
22. Progress is an illusion.
23. Evil can be displaced but never eradicated, as all solutions breed
new problems.
24. Yet, it is necessary to keep on struggling toward solutions.
25. Childhood is a nightmare.
26. But it is so very hard to be an on-your-own-take-care-of-yourself-
cause-there-is-no-one-else-to-do-it-for-you grown up.
27. Each of us is ultimately alone.
28. The most important things, each man must do for himself.
29. Love is not enough, but it sure helps.
30. We have only ourselves, and one another. That may not be much,
but that is all there is.
31. How strange, that so often it all seems worth it.
32. We must live within the ambiguity of partial freedom, partial
power, and partial knowledge.
33. All important decisions must be made on the basis of insufficient
data.
34. Yet we are responsible for everything we do.
35. No excuses will be accepted.
36. You can run, but you can't hide.
37. It is most important to run out of scapegoats.
38. We must learn the power of living with our helplessness.
39. The only victory lies in surrender with ourselves.
40. All of the significant battles are waged within the self.
41. You are free to do whatever you like. You need only face the
consequences.
42. What do you know...for sure...anyway?
43. Learn to forgive yourself, again and again and again and again...



Some people find it negitive, though I personally find it very positive... Any thoughts on it?

Stan 101:

I agree with you: I find most of these comments to be the sort of truth I now accept but wouldn't have when I was a teenager. It has something to do with accepting our limitations but at the same time not ceasing to strive for excellence.

Julia