BNB - Babcock & Brown

[YELNATS]

will the company pay the interest to BNBG holders next month? I just bought some BNBG.

any ideas?
thanks

Yes, as per BNB's May 15 ann,

Quote
Babcock & Brown (ASX: BNB), today announced that the record
date for the next Babcock & Brown Subordinated Note (ASX: BNBG)
interest payment, to be made on 17 November 2008, is 10 November
2008 and the interest rate will be 10.1400%.
This equates to $5.1672 per subordinated note.
Unquote

I understand the "ex-div" date is Nov 3.

 

[gimmster]

I've come across Babcock and Browns hybrid notes. The code is : BNBG and is currently trading for $20~. From what I gather the interest rate is roughly around $8 per annum with a face value of $100 and there is a reset day of nov 15 2010.


not sure if i'm understanding the concept of hybrids correctly, at the moment it will pay $8 per annum and until 2010 comes in which it will exchange $100 worth of BNB shares for each note .

is that correct?

Cheers

Yep, $20 buys you $116 over the next two years. Provided BNB doesn't find some way to reneg. Buy, and you may end up like the holders of AHUGA.
Take care.

As yelnats noted

The interest rate for subsequent periods until the first reset date (15
November 2010) will be based on the Australian six month bank bill swap
rate plus a margin of 2.20% per annum.

which means the interest rate (and thus income) will fall if/as the swap rates fall.

AFAICT - It won't exchange the notes for shares until expiry which is 15/11/2015

General info on this type of note is at http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/displayInterestRateSecurities.do#convertnotes

I'm hopeful, I have a *very* small number of these notes, but it's still a risk in the present environment.

 

[YELNATS]

which means the interest rate (and thus income) will fall if/as the swap rates fall.

That's correct, in fact the 6 months bank bill swap rate has fallen to about 5.39% as of today (from about 6.8% at the beginning of October).

see http://www.nabcapital.com/bondcreditmarkets/bankbills/BankBills.aspx

This means based on today's rate, the annual return is around 7.6% (5.4% + 2.2% margin) or 3.8% half-yearly.

 

[lcl999]

Further, as per BNB's 27/09/06 ASX release:

Quote

Under the BBSN terms of issue, investors have the right to request an
exchange of BBSN into ordinary shares in Babcock & Brown in a number of
circumstances, including at reset dates and at maturity. On receipt of a request to exchange, Babcock & Brown may choose whether to exchange, repay or resell the relevant BBSN.
Babcock & Brown’s decision on whether to exchange, repay or resell the
relevant BBSN will depend on a range of factors including Babcock & Brown’s
equity and debt position at the time, the opportunities for expansion of our
business and our assessment of the optimal financing sources available to
Babcock & Brown at that time. In the event of exchange, Babcock & Brown
ordinary shares will be issued to investors at a discount of 2.5% to the average market price on the terms set out in this Prospectus.

Unquote

I draw your attention to "Babcock & Brown may choose whether to exchange, repay or resell the relevant BBSN." especially to the option to resell the notes.
Does this mean that B&B can resell the notes at way below par and pay the old holder the proceeds as full settlement? If so, you might still only get $20 each for them.

 

[posh]

surprised nobody has said a word here about this stock. the commentary in the other forum has gone up to sky height following today's news release and here, silence... does nobody hold this stock anymore?

 

[sjx]

surprised nobody has said a word here about this stock. the commentary in the other forum has gone up to sky height following today's news release and here, silence... does nobody hold this stock anymore?

I would have thought that most may did in fact sell back when disaster struck BNB.. I certainly did

Bought back in today



It did indeed gain much attention on other forums and I am also surprised it hasn't received much attention on ASF today.

 

[bluey]

Got burnt pretty badly on BNB's monumental fall..

Right now 55c.. seems very tempting.. but don't want to play with fire again!

Is anyone buying into the stock today?

 

[sammy84]

Got burnt pretty badly on BNB's monumental fall..

Right now 55c.. seems very tempting.. but don't want to play with fire again!

Is anyone buying into the stock today?

I played a few weeks ago with bnb when they were around the 80c mark and was rewarded very nicely. I'm not sure if I am as gutsy this time. The support doesn't seem to be there. BNB used to correlate nicely with the market movements, only at a larger BETA, this is no longer happening. It is hard to support a stock when now all the other debt ridden stocks are finally succumbing and going into receivership.

Its sad as BNB has served me well in the past.

 

[dhukka]

surprised nobody has said a word here about this stock. the commentary in the other forum has gone up to sky height following today's news release and here, silence... does nobody hold this stock anymore?

You only need look back a few pages to understand why, the opinion was overwhelmingly bullish on this stock, I'd say the lack of commentary has to do with shock by those that hold. No doubt they'll be back when the stock starts to rally telling everyone what a wonderful blue chip company this is.

I'll reiterate my comments again on this smallcap specy:

The problem is that BNB was only ever a blue chip in drag. They got on board the cheap credit, leverage to the hilt model and it worked wonderfully whilst asset prices were going one way. However that evironment has effectively come to an end for the short to medium term. GS and MS represent the most successful at this game and but as of today they have essentially admitted that they cannot continue in their current form and are converting to bank status.

BNB dooes not have the same level of leverage but they suffer similar problems. Reducing leverage and significant asset sales are the only way they can survive. Nothing has fundamentally changed in the last few days to change that.

 

[M34N]

You only need look back a few pages to understand why, the opinion was overwhelmingly bullish on this stock, I'd say the lack of commentary has to do with shock by those that hold. No doubt they'll be back when the stock starts to rally telling everyone what a wonderful blue chip company this is.

I agree dhukka, after seeing the collapse of Allco and ABC, both which relied so much on credit, why anyone would hold BNB still is beyond me. What positive is there for this company that anyone can state at the moment? I wonder how long before Ms. Nosworthy makes them file for bankruptcy, she has a good history in that field.

What's it going to take for people to finally get off this sinking ship?

 

[johenmo]

I interpret this to say that unless they manage to sell a few things then they are in a really tight spot. Am I reading this right?

DISC: i have a few which are beig treated as a case study. I will laugh in a few years, whilst I cry now..................... (takes shares form bottom drawer and puts them under the house, as he figures that's lower than bottom drawer. LOL)

 

[Struzball]

How could they not be bankrupt already?

They've lost 98% from of their highs and they were leveraged to the eyeballs.

If it were me and I lost 98% of my asset value and had loans to pay I think I'd find the nearest window. How can they continue to trade?

 

[Mr_T]

How could they not be bankrupt already?

They've lost 98% from of their highs and they were leveraged to the eyeballs.

If it were me and I lost 98% of my asset value and had loans to pay I think I'd find the nearest window. How can they continue to trade?

More to the point, how does society allow a man like Phil Green to continue to live a life of luxury whilst the company he was CEO of has lost 98% of its value?

Uncle Phil has very much contributed to debunking the myth that if you pay high amounts for a CEO you get quality talent. He is a narcissistic tosspot, Australia should be ashamed of itself for allowing him to keep his riches.

 

[YELNATS]

I agree dhukka, after seeing the collapse of Allco and ABC, both which relied so much on credit, why anyone would hold BNB still is beyond me. What positive is there for this company that anyone can state at the moment? I wonder how long before Ms. Nosworthy makes them file for bankruptcy, she has a good history in that field.

What's it going to take for people to finally get off this sinking ship?

The thing is, holders have lost so much already, there's not much more to lose.

So you might as well hang on to what little you've got left and pray for some sort of recovery.

 

[johenmo]

The thing is, holders have lost so much already, there's not much more to lose.

So you might as well hang on to what little you've got left and pray for some sort of recovery.

So true. Sad, but so true. And I'm one.

New definition of a masochist: A long term BNB shareholder............

I'm just thankful I'm just starting out and I only got my toes in the water before getting bittten. Could have have been the whole leg!!! LOL

 

[skyQuake]

Assuming G10 doesn't screw things up (and the gap is not too big), we could see a decent long daytrade on monday morning...

 

[dhukka]

For those paying attention it was obvious that BNB was a piece of junk before S&P decided to downgrade it to a BB- credit rating. However after today S&P has drvien BNB further into junk status by giving BNB the highest risk rating they can possibly get without being in default. Only a matter of time before they go under IMO.

B&B International Ratings Lowered To 'CCC+/C' On Restructure Plans; Stay
On CreditWatch Negative

Melbourne, Nov. 19, 2008””Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that it had lowered its long-term issuer credit rating on Australia-based Babcock & Brown International Pty Ltd. (BBIPL) to 'CCC+' from 'BB-', reflecting the financial challenges faced by the company, which were highlighted in the restructure announcement today. At the same time, the short-term rating was lowered to ‘C’ from ‘B’. The ratings remain on CreditWatch with negative implications, where they were initially placed on Nov. 10, 2008.

"The ‘CCC+’ rating reflects our view of an increased risk that BBIPL will fail to meet its A$3.1 billion corporate facilities’ financial covenants, which was also highlighted in the company’s announcement today. Should this occur, the banks might accelerate payments under the facilities," Standard & Poor's credit analyst Sharad Jain said. According to Standard & Poor’s rating criteria, a rating is likely to be lowered to ‘D’ if the lenders accelerate the payment of a facility, or restructure a facility in such a way that is deemed
by Standard & Poor’s as a distressed exchange. For example, a restructure could result in lenders not receiving appropriate compensation. We note that Babcock & Brown intends to negotiate with its lenders for
amendments in the corporate bank facilities.

Given the global financial market conditions, and BBIPL’s recent experience, we believe that the company is likely to face significant challenges in selling its assets and businesses, and consequently reducing its debt at the corporate level.

To resolve the CreditWatch, we plan to meet with the company management to better understand the proposed changes in the bank facilities, BBIPL's asset and business sales plans, ongoing exposure to Babcock & Brown Power, and debt retirement progress. The CreditWatch is expected to be resolved by
early next year.

 

[Mr_T]

Is this the end for BNB?

Maybe yes, maybe no.

One thing for sure. Whether it is or isn't, that arrogant, lying tosspot Phil Green will continue to live a life of luxury in his Sydney mansion.

There is zero justice in this world.

 

[johenmo]

Business Spectator - 20 Nob 08
Babcock's best offer

The choice facing the 25 banks owed $3.1 billion by Babcock & Brown is either to accept the restructuring proposal put forward by the company or wait for the facility to default and opt for accelerated repayment.

This choice was made clear on Tuesday night when the company held a conference call with its bankers and told them because of deteriorating asset values it would find it difficult to meet the interest coverage ratio under its facility.

Declining asset values affect interest cover because impairment charges go through the profit and loss account and reduce the amount of income to cover interest payments.

The banking syndicate, which is led by Bank of Scotland and includes the big four Australian banks, were not asked to take a haircut on their loan.

However, it was made clear to them that unless they agreed to revisit the various default and review covenants in the loan to Babcock & Brown International Pty Ltd, there would likely be a default.

A default would provide the trigger for the banks to demand accelerated repayment. It would also have dire implications for the holders of $600 million in subordinated notes, staff, other creditors and shareholders.

A demand for accelerated repayment of the debt would almost certainly mean Babcock & Brown would not be able to meet its debts as they fell due. Directors would have to call in administrators. That would be followed by the appointment of a receiver by the banks.

The collapse of Babcock & Brown, which had total liabilities at June 30 of $11.5 billion, would be extremely messy and stretch out for years. It is a far more complicated and much larger business than Allco, which is causing nightmares for its receivers and administrators.

The insolvency of Babcock & Brown would immediately terminate the management agreements with various listed and unlisted funds thus destroying hundreds of millions of dollars in value.

Putting the company under would not speed up the sale of various real estate and leasing assets that have been frozen by the dislocation in the global financial markets and the likely vulture like behaviour of the potential buyers.

The collapse of Babcock & Brown would not facilitate the early repayment of $400 million owed to the company by Babcock & Brown Power, which is currently up for sale.

Pulling the plug on Babcock & Brown would be unlikely to generate renewed interest in the hidden assets locked up in the listed funds which are all trading at large discounts to net tangible assets. And it would not do much for the value of Babcock & Brown's investments in the listed funds.

The alternative to these unpalatable outcomes is for the bankers to put their trust in the new chief executive Michael Larkin and his ability to deliver on a pretty radical restructuring plan.

Larkin has done a backflip since August and now says Babcock & Brown should get out of real estate and operating leasing. The core business will be infrastructure financing.

The payoff for the banks is that Babcock & Brown will repay $1.2 billion of the $3.1 billion corporate facility by April 2011 when it was due to be rolled over.

Larkin argues there is no point trying to sell assets when no one is buying just to meet loan covenants that have no bearing on the company's ability to meet its interest payments.

The share market reaction to the Larkin proposal was logical. Babcock & Brown shares fell to reflect the fact the company is anticipating severe impairment charges in the six months to December.

Larkin and his team can see from announcements made by others and by looking at their own valuations that asset values have to come down.

For example, anyone wanting a realistic assessment of the deterioration in the aircraft leasing market need only look at the two recent announcements to the New York and Singapore stock exchanges by Babcock & Brown Air and Babcock & Brown Global Investments.

The coming balance date will not only be a trigger for big write-downs at the Babcock mothership. Virtually all the Babcock listed funds are headed the same way judging from the huge differences between their share prices and net tangible assets.

Larkin wants to ring fence Babcock & Brown's investments in the satellite funds from the banks as part of his plan to shrink the company down to an infrastructure financier and manager. The banks may have other ideas. The stakes held in nine different listed funds are worth about $140 million at current prices.

If Babcock & Brown's bankers agree to restructure the $3.1 billion facility in way that involves accelerated repayment, capitalised interest or a forced reduction in the principal, then ratings agency Standard & Poor's will regard this as a payment default.

At this stage S&P has cut the rating on Babcock & Brown International Pty Ltd from BB minus to CCC plus with credit watch negative. This means the debt is “vulnerable to non-payment, and is dependent upon favourable business, financial, and economic conditions for the obligor to meet its financial commitment on the obligation.”

One factor that has shaped S&P's negative view of Babcock & Brown is that the company broke one of the golden rules of the externally managed funds business model when it extended $400 million in loans to Babcock & Brown Power. That loan is repayable early next year.

External managers of infrastructure assets were never supposed to provide financial support for a fund in distress. It was a stated policy of Babcock & Brown that it would not step in to provide financial support to satellite funds.

The bankers to Babcock & Brown will be conscious of the financial pressures created by the rescue of Babcock & Brown Power.

As David Bowie sang in "Young American"..it makes you want to "...break down and cry..." if you hold BNB.

 

[tigerboi]

very true on this mob,once the dust settles which will be?? there will be opportunities, yep your a lot gamer than me,too risky for my liking as i still think they may be rearranging the deck chairs on the BNB titanic, however they did react swiftly to a possible attack from the long short-short long gang,i would think the sentiment to these types of set ups will see the price head much lower,i reckon they where very lucky they werent among the hit squads early victims, as it gave them much needed time to re-borrow & spread it,interesting to see how they go in the next 3 months...tb

I said last week this was the next house of cards to go & i see they are furiously covering their vunerable arses from the shorters hit squad,they all got the same problem,debt to expand & with the banks wanting the bat & ball back its only a matter of time before they cant take from here to prop up this staple..always very dodgy using debt...

looks like the time is near for this criminal ponzi to go ar5e over as predicted some time ago,next month cnp's turn...still cant fathom why anyone would touch this...tb