BNB - Babcock & Brown

[eMark]

Yes, that is correct, as a share trader is in the business of trading, so their losses are deductible (subject to the non-commercial loss provisions).

ok, now that is interesting.......

What makes one a share trader vs. a share holder?

What am I?

Are you saying a share trader can claim capital losses against their regular joe income?

 

[Mr_T]

Re: WELL THAT WILL DO ME!!UNLIMITED STUPIDITY

Thanks Mr T.

So no matter how much you are taxed on your salary, you can't offset any capital losses.

....and capital losses can only be used to offset capital gains.

So in affect you can't "claim" capital losses.......no matter how substantial.

Apart from against capital gains.

Yes, that's correct. In effect, capital losses are quarantined against capital gains.

If capital losses are carried forward, there is no time limit. You can carry them forward till you use them up.

 

[Mr_T]

ok, now that is interesting.......

What makes one a share trader vs. a share holder?

What am I?

Are you saying a share trader can claim capital losses against their regular joe income?

There is no scientific formula, need to look at all the facts, especially the frequency and volume of transactions.

For a share trader, their shares are their trading stock. So their losses are not "capital losses", rather they are just plain losses, analogous to a situation that if a hardware store you owned as a sole proprietor made a loss.

 

[roland]

Re: WELL THAT WILL DO ME!!UNLIMITED STUPIDITY

Yes, that's correct. In effect, capital losses are quarantined against capital gains.

If capital losses are carried forward, there is no time limit. You can carry them forward till you use them up.

Mr_T, do you know whether you can claim back CGT paid on past profit years against current financial years losses?

 

[Mr_T]

Re: WELL THAT WILL DO ME!!UNLIMITED STUPIDITY

Mr_T, do you know whether you can claim back CGT paid on past profit years against current financial years losses?

The answer is no, you cannot. Can only use a capital loss to offset current and future year gains.

Which isn't exactly fair, but that's the law.

 

[eMark]

There is no scientific formula, need to look at all the facts, especially the frequency and volume of transactions.

For a share trader, their shares are their trading stock. So their losses are not "capital losses", rather they are just plain losses, analogous to a situation that if a hardware store you owned as a sole proprietor made a loss.

Thanks for your help Mr T. It really is appreciated.

Re - "their shares are their trading stock"

What does this mean?

Do you qualify as a trader (by having to have an ABN or something like that)? Which I don't

My situation is I have roughly a 60k profit for 07/08, but have losses 3-4 times that. The losses came from frequent trading, high volumes, resulting signifigant losses (not to mention stupidity)

I also have a salary (regular job - not related to trading)

Hope this helps.

 

[barnz2k]

My situation is I have roughly a 60k profit for 07/08, but have losses 3-4 times that. The losses came from frequent trading, high volumes, resulting signifigant losses (not to mention stupidity)

and here I am sulking about 10K loss..

So Im guessing you could use 60K of your losses, picking out the shares to match closest to your profit for offset, and carry the rest of the loss into next year where you (and me ) will hopefully have a big profit you can use it against, and continue until your profit excedes your used loss. (hmm sounds like a gambler chasing his losses the way I worded it.. but you know what i mean)

 

[Family_Guy]

As a new comer to trading shares, i really had no idea this was happening when i purchased on Wed at $9.57 thinking this was an absolute bargin. Guess i was wrong and now reading the news.com.au site, i found the reason why and how these so called vultures from OS can do so much damage.

But you learn from experience, luckily i only bought 70 of them. I'll hold them and take a lesson, but hope to hell they climb back to prices of old.....soon.

Interestingly, i just read the report that BellPotter put out and this was one of their favoured stocks (i read it tonight)

 

[Mr_T]

Thanks for your help Mr T. It really is appreciated.

Re - "their shares are their trading stock"

What does this mean?

Do you qualify as a trader (by having to have an ABN or something like that)? Which I don't

My situation is I have roughly a 60k profit for 07/08, but have losses 3-4 times that. The losses came from frequent trading, high volumes, resulting signifigant losses (not to mention stupidity)

I also have a salary (regular job - not related to trading)

Hope this helps.

For a share investor, the shares are their capital. But for a share trader, the shares are their trading stock. Just like for a supermarket, its food & other goods are its trading stock, for a share trader the shares are the trading stock, as they are constantly bought and sold. What an accountant would call inventory, a tax person calls trading stock.

Having an ABN doesn't make you a trader. But if you are a trader, you should have an ABN, though if you don't have one, it won't stop you being a trader. Just that all businesses need to have an ABN. But lets get the causation straight: it's that a business should have an ABN, it's not that having an ABN makes you into a business.

Whether you are a trader or investor depends on the specific facts of your case, it is possible that you are a trader given your frequency.

If you wish to offset share losses against income such as salary, there are 2 hurdles you need to jump:

a) Show that you are a share trader, not just an investor (ie that you are in the business of trading shares);

AND (ie you need both hurdles)


Must show that the requirements of Div 35 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 are fulfilled.

Div 35 will be relevant to ANY business that makes a loss, including one of "share trading". Basically, it says that a business can't use its loss to offset other income (such as salary income) unless fulfil at least one of following:

a) The business have made $20,000 in income (if you sold $20,000 in your share trading business, this would be fulfilled).

b) You made a profit for at least 3 of the last 5 financial year (including the current one) from your business

c) The business utilised real esate that costed at least $50K

d) the business utilisied depreciating assets and trading stock (which here would include shares, as they are trading stock) of at least 100K.

 

[Galax]

I have just seen my share plumment and i know i should have sold it when they were at $16.20
does any one believe tomorrow they will be on trading halt and if so what could possibly be the future for them and the ones holding this

 

[eMark]

Mr T

Thankyou very much for your time and effort, and detailed responses.

I will have a closer look at this reponse in particular, and get back to you via the messaging system with any further questions I might have in coming days. Simply beacuse this is a BNB thread, and I am mindful of that.

Cheers

For a share investor, the shares are their capital. But for a share trader, the shares are their trading stock. Just like for a supermarket, its food & other goods are its trading stock, for a share trader the shares are the trading stock, as they are constantly bought and sold. What an accountant would call inventory, a tax person calls trading stock.

Having an ABN doesn't make you a trader. But if you are a trader, you should have an ABN, though if you don't have one, it won't stop you being a trader. Just that all businesses need to have an ABN. But lets get the causation straight: it's that a business should have an ABN, it's not that having an ABN makes you into a business.

Whether you are a trader or investor depends on the specific facts of your case, it is possible that you are a trader given your frequency.

If you wish to offset share losses against income such as salary, there are 2 hurdles you need to jump:

a) Show that you are a share trader, not just an investor (ie that you are in the business of trading shares);

AND (ie you need both hurdles)


Must show that the requirements of Div 35 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 are fulfilled.

Div 35 will be relevant to ANY business that makes a loss, including one of "share trading". Basically, it says that a business can't use its loss to offset other income (such as salary income) unless fulfil at least one of following:

a) The business have made $20,000 in income (if you sold $20,000 in your share trading business, this would be fulfilled).

b) You made a profit for at least 3 of the last 5 financial year (including the current one) from your business

c) The business utilised real esate that costed at least $50K

d) the business utilisied depreciating assets and trading stock (which here would include shares, as they are trading stock) of at least 100K.

 

[yuan84dk]

Re: BNB bargain of the day ?

Well I bought into BNB today
Yes i may be insane
i chased it up and down Paid $7:20

NOTE :
Commsec, Etrade sites jammed up on the BNB market depth
So no one could trade for around 15 to 20 mins
Did any one else notice ??
Guess pannick set in and it was smashed again and went to 6.80

Well as a new BNB owner
After reading all your postings maybe i should not of purchased this bargain ?

Well i have decided to throw a life jacket on for the morning trade
And will promtly jump the BNB ship if the price fails in morn trade

As will thousands of other small and large punters
if some of your dire predicions on this page come true

Yea, same here, on the depth screen of Comsec Pro trader, the selling column was deep to my carpet!!! There was a red cross accross the screen but didnt see an end of the whole dame thing. I wish the stock is in oversold now.

 

[tigerboi]

Re:NO GLOATING ALLOWED

the news gets worse they are now on a negative list with moodys,i want folk that have lost to take it as a very learned experience...tb

$5.45 open...wow they are a gonna today..

now $4.97...

 

[DowJones]

Another interesting day for BNB, I wonder if there might be a take-over at these low prices?

A rating downgrade would be disastrous for BNB, especially if they fall off the BBB range. This would put them into junk territory as far as debt goes.

I held this stock a while back at $21, and sold at $16 when it looked like a trend. I am astounded to what the short-sellers are doing.

 

[tigerboi]

Re:TOO MUCH DEBT FOR A TAKEOVER

Another interesting day for BNB, I wonder if there might be a take-over at these low prices?

A rating downgrade would be disastrous for BNB, especially if they fall off the BBB range. This would put them into junk territory as far as debt goes.

I held this stock a while back at $21, and sold at $16 when it looked like a trend. I am astounded to what the short-sellers are doing.

You cant blame the shorters as i said 3 months ago this mob will be next cab off the rank,as for t/o?whats to takeover...100% firesale must happen,you were clever only losing 25%,just amazes me why anyone would buy this junk.

the business model of rolling assets up that you dont own,borrow massively,take commissions,fees doesnt work never will...its abc again,or as yogi bera says"its de ja vu all over again!"...tb

downgrade already sitting in the anns.inbox before open

next cab off the rank...asciano

 

[wysiwyg101]

a) The business have made $20,000 in income (if you sold $20,000 in your share trading business, this would be fulfilled).

Appologies for continuing the tax questions but I thought I would take the opportunity to ask a question about CFD's and tax.

How do you determine what the turnover is when trading CFD's? Does the underlying value of the shares traded count as the income or is there another method.

 

[AnDy62]

Poor BNB. I think my Nan owns these, oh dear

Did she witness the first titanic,,, no, not quite.

My feelings go out to any holders caught up in this cyclone of shorting and debt lynching mobs.

 

[cordelia]

I am watching this being sold down like crazy and it really sucks....I don't hold but this short selling BS should be outlawed....There's no way that anything positive can be gained from this....The whole idea of selling something you don't own is just f***ed....

Sorry to those suffering from this

 

[Fed23]

I'm look and its like the bloodbath will not end. Where this will bottom out I got no idea, but its scary.

I thought this was a good buy when it was $12, then it bounced to $16.... now after yesterday I could see this ending up like CNP and AFG.

 

[benwex]

Can someone explain to me...

Why would someone lend shares to another for them to sell into the market, batter the price down and then return them back at far lower price???

Who ever lends shares to a short sell will be getting screwed???

Anyone really understand the mechanics of short selling??

benwex