Bitcoin and cryptocurrency trading thread

[tech/a]

Tangible
What is that?

What is the intrinsic value of a $100 note
Who determines the price of gold?

Who guarantees the price of both?

After 2009 what is the backing of a bank work.

The whole idea of Crypto Currencies is to TAKE AWAY the
Need for Govt or Bank backing.

 

[InsvestoBoy]

I've been following cryptocurrency since the day Bitcoin was released to the internet in August 2008.

I thought it was dumb then and still think it's dumb now. Obviously, I'm dumb in the sense that I could have made a lot of money over that time, but I don't think that makes me wrong, just dumb.

I have dedicated the last 15 years of my life to a deep understanding of technology, especially distributed systems like Tor, BitTorrent, Bitcoin and many others. Most people who say what Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies like Ethereum, or whatever) will do, really have no understanding at all of the underlying technology and that paradoxically even applies to a lot of people who work in IT.

I can't help but laugh when people who have no real understanding of the underlying technology, or economics, say why they think Bitcoin will replace USD, or why Ethereum will replace Facebook.

This is a good slideshow which provides a very good economic counterpoint to most of the common Bitcoin proponents comments, worth a read:

http://www.interfluidity.com/uploads/2017/10/Fiat-Is-Effective-Minitalk-light-edit-to-share.pdf

 

[CanOz]

Dead cat bounce over?

 

[DaveDaGr8]

Tangible
What is that?

What is the intrinsic value of a $100 note
Who determines the price of gold?

Who guarantees the price of both?

After 2009 what is the backing of a bank work.

The whole idea of Crypto Currencies is to TAKE AWAY the
Need for Govt or Bank backing.

$100 is worth 33 loaves of bread, has been for the last few years and i suspect this year and next year, every day i walk into the supermarket it will still be worth 33 loaves of bread.

Who guarantees this price ? The people. If one day my brand is only worth 10 loaves of bread, then i'll buy homebrand.

Today 1 bitcoin is worth 4487 loaves of bread, tomorrow ???. The people can't regulate this price, nor can the governments, business etc because nothing really is traded, just bitcoin itself.

One day crypto coins will become self regulating in such a way, but not without a lot of pain first. The biggest mistake was using them as an investment tool rather than a transaction tool.

Currency is a medium to buy and sell goods and NOT a medium to trade and make money off

 

[notting]

Dead cat bounce over?

After yesterdays recovery I'm thinking, they be taking advantage of low volume to ramp down, then buy back up when volume and system selling starts to kick in.
Must admit I do like the fact that it really never closes. I might just trade all day Christmas day to finally take revenge on all those stupid holidays we've had to endure over the decades.
Makes it a little tough for IB and co to close for maintenance on the weekend and such or match up the after hours trades when they get back to it. Guess they can still zero sum it all even with the volatility eventually

 

[tech/a]

$100 is worth 33 loaves of bread, has been for the last few years and i suspect this year and next year, every day i walk into the supermarket it will still be worth 33 loaves of bread.

Intrinsic value

Who guarantees this price ? The people. If one day my brand is only worth 10 loaves of bread, then i'll buy homebrand.

Not even close.

Today 1 bitcoin is worth 4487 loaves of bread, tomorrow ???. The people can't regulate this price, nor can the governments, business etc because nothing really is traded, just bitcoin itself.

Who other than the people regulate the price?

One day crypto coins will become self regulating in such a way, but not without a lot of pain first. The biggest mistake was using them as an investment tool rather than a transaction tool.

It’s a choice not the purpose. Who has made a “ mistake “

Currency is a medium to buy and sell goods and NOT a medium to trade and make money off

You’d better tell banks and governments.

 

[notting]

Who other than the people regulate the price?

The biggest machine that owns the 51% steak.

Decentralized blockchain, especially with regard to Bitcoin, is an urban myth.
Assume Bitcoin is already controlled by the mega mine that has been running for years, whilst most others have folded.
Due to Bitcoins lack of regulation, accountability and more than 51% ownership to 'the mine that won,' that owner can also buy and sell to themselves, to manipulate the technicals in what ever way they want, create what ever perfect looking entry points and support levels they want, and break it when they want to draw people like yourself in and out, when they want.

 

[tech/a]

Rubbish

People and institutions who buy Bitcoin determine price

Tell me how did they move price from
1c to $20000
Making and owning more bitcoins than anyone else?
How’s that work?

Bunker Hunt tried that with Silver
That didn’t end well!

 

[notting]

Rubbish

People and institutions who buy Bitcoin determine price
Tell me how did they move price from
1c to $20000
Making and owning more bitcoins than anyone else?
How’s that work?

They accumulated it, they didn't own it from the start or manipulate it from the start.
There are plenty of people involved in the price movements, they just don't have the final say. It doesn't need to be manipulated all the time, people take care of that too.

 

[tech/a]

If that’s the case they want the highest price possible
They would just slowly sell

 

[notting]

If that’s the case they want the highest price possible
They would just slowly sell

That's exactly what they do especially against the mining. They sell slowly on market.

 

[tech/a]

So how is this a problem for me owning bitcoins?

 

[notting]

So how is this a problem for me owning bitcoins?

It's not a problem until all 'the people' realize it's not the financial eutopia they were all dreaming it was and don't want to have anything more to do with it because it is regulated by thieves.

 

[tech/a]

Really they take part in it everyday now!
In most things not related to Bitcoin.

 

[notting]

If your talking about other crypto's they are still largely 'following the trend' that is the illusion of Bitcoin for all.

 

[DaveDaGr8]

Intrinsic value



Not even close.




Who other than the people regulate the price?



It’s a choice not the purpose. Who has made a “ mistake “



You’d better tell banks and governments.

Um ok ????? I give up ... enlighten me.

 

[tech/a]

Probably a few bucks for the plastic paper
Counter fitter would pay more
But it’s not $100

 

[galumay]

I understand why traders like the Duck see cryptos as a potential commodity for making money, anything with so much volatility must offer opportunity for those so inclined.

From a neutral viewpoint, ( i am not a trader and I have no interest in investing in cryptos or blockchain), the whole thing looks like a massive ponzi scheme that attracted libertarians, the disenfranchised and conspiracy theorists initially and then the ignorant 'mums & dads' by FOMO.

Part of the brilliance of the ponzi scheme was linking fairy money (cryptos) to the concept of blockchain, this meant that all the time, effort, hardware costs, energy costs and so on associated with maintaining an exponentially growing, publicly distributed ledger, (block chain); was paid for with fairy money. The utility of the fairy money with the dark web, drugs, criminals etc helped push the price up and then the FOMO did the rest.

At the same time the almost total lack of understanding of what blockchain technology actually is and what its actually suitable for meant that as it became increasingly hyped as the new tech, the internet 2.0, something the cool people got, something old people could never understand, businesses started looking for ways to integrate blockchain tech into their businesses.

The problem is its actually often a worse and less practical solution than whatever it replaces, ledgers, spreadsheets, databases etc, but the FOMO in the corporate world was too strong for many to resist and so enormous amounts of money, time, energy and effort are being applied to implementing something that is largely inappropriate.

I just read this quote on twitter from Ben Hamner (CTO at Kaggle)

"The blockchain movement is 100x worse than the NoSQL movement. Every time I see a new blockchain idea I ask “would a relational DB be unambiguously better in every regard here?” (generating page views expected). 99% of the time the answer’s yes"

Yes, there will be instances where blockchain tech makes sense, a lot of it wont be public blockchain though, and so wont need to be linked to fairy money. Yes, there will be cryptos in the future, but its most likely that the disruption of cryptos will simply lead to less 'ticket clipping' in the finance world, faster transactions, better FX rates, more security around online transactions - all still in existing fiat currency. Cryptos in some form will remain a substitute for cash in the dark web, criminal and underworld.

 

[tech/a]

This fairy money

Where is it?

Try buying a bit coin
If you dont mine it you’ll have to
Use money.
Or convert for gold at X value .

Instos are they using this fairy money?

Just as a $1 has a value or a bank note has a value so does crypto currency
Bitcoin $17-22,000 each Ripple $1.37 each
I can buy other cryptos with my spread or my cash.

 

[galumay]

Just as a $1 has a value or a bank note has a value so does crypto currency
Bitcoin $17-22,000 each Ripple $1.37 each

No, $1 has a value, cryptos have a price. Not quite the same thing!

Read some of the links people have posted tech/a, there are some pretty good explanations. The one Insvesto boy posted is very good.