Bicycle Helmets Kill

[McLovin]

You want to be a protected species ?

I want some commonsense. There's a difference between a 80-90kg cyclist doing 15-20kmh approaching an intersection and a two tonne motor vehicle travelling at 60-80kmh. The average cyclist is far more aware than the average driver, because they know they've got a lot to lose if they get things wrong. There are different road rules for heavy vehicles, so why not for cyclists? The test should be around safety, not equality. The biggest threat to cyclists is motor vehicle drivers, cyclists are not usually at fault. Many European cities allow cyclists to slow and give way but cross intersections on red lights or stop signs. Most Europeans also know how to drive a car too, unlike the average Australian.

 

[SirRumpole]

I want some commonsense. There's a difference between a 80-90kg cyclist doing 15-20kmh approaching an intersection and a two tonne motor vehicle travelling at 60-80kmh. The average cyclist is far more aware than the average driver, because they know they've got a lot to lose if they get things wrong. There are different road rules for heavy vehicles, so why not for cyclists? The test should be around safety, not equality. The biggest threat to cyclists is motor vehicle drivers, cyclists are not usually at fault. Many European cities allow cyclists to slow and give way but cross intersections on red lights or stop signs. Most Europeans also know how to drive a car too, unlike the average Australian.

Well I think you have to accept the realities of human perception and vision.

Cyclists have a small cross sectional area which is easy to get into a drivers blind spot and therefore not be seen.

That's not a function of inattention or carelessness but simply of human anatomy.

It's good to see cyclists trying to make themselves more visible which hopefully will cut down accidents but there will always be cases where the drivers simply don't see them. I'd say if a bike rider swapped places with a car driver they would have the same problem as we all have the same eye structure.

 

[qldfrog]

I'd say if a bike rider swapped places with a car driver they would have the same problem as we all have the same eye structure.

Sir Rumpole, most of bike riders are also car drivers, but as i cyclist, i drive differently believe me;
And yes as most cyclists I pay a car rego.
i do wear lycra , as a daily commute of 40 to 50km return can not be done daily wearing a tshirt and shorts,
and lycras are much cheaper than specialised "disguised as usual clothes" equipment (they exist...)
the last thing i want to add is sometimes even well intentionned drivers are an actual danger:
when riding on a road (and not a bikeway) there is nothing worse for a cyclist as being followed by a car 3m behind who does not dare to overtake you , but will still run over you if you fall and is pissing off 10 cars behind you who will be ready to hurl insults or push you off the road;
car/cyclist issues here are mostly a problem of incompetent and selfish drivers (and to a limit some moronic cyclists..they do exist too) Australian driving was appaling 20y ago, and it still is, actually worsen; it is a problem of readiness/attention and focus on driving:
you can not drive and drink/use a cruise control/look at the kid in the capsule/speak on the phone or worse but as frequent sending sms.
So if you see a cyclist 200m ahead you ensure your timing when reaching his/her level is such that you can overtake safely.either accelerating or slowing and in 90% of case, all is good.But you need to look ahead and use your brain.

 

[Uncle Festivus]

Bicycle helmets don't kill.

 

[McLovin]

NSW, where you get so many fines the government designed an app to help you "manage" your fines.

 

[SirRumpole]

NSW, where you get so many fines the government designed an app to help you "manage" your fines.

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All this is a natural consequence of politicians stuffing the cities so full of people that you can't do anything without tripping over someone else.

Out here is the bush where the population densities are far less the authorities are much more relaxed (in fact there are far fewer "authorities" and they usually don't give a stuff about pulling people over for trivialities.

The real danger to our liberty is police "quotas", whether they be on speeding fines, parking offences or whatever.

That's when you get nitpicking and a bullying attitude of the enforcers towards the public.

 

[Logique]

In these pages, you won't find me much agreeing with posters Orr and McLovin. But I am with them on this issue!

I'm not a "lycra" bicyclist, but an enthusiastic one. In Sydney central, bicyclists are a reviled breed. The dedicated bicycle lanes are loathed by motorists. Influential people have whispered in the ear of the NSW government. That's where these nanny state laws have come from.

So we have this five-fold increase in the penalties for bicyclists, on let's face it, trivial offences.

SirR, these increased penalties, if for now unlikely to be enforced outside the city - just wait until the out-of-town police task force arrives, and books everyone in town!

Take your bull mastiff or siberian husky down to the local pram park and let them run around off-leash - sure no problem.

Bicycle through the same park without a stryofoam helmet and look out, penalty notice $300 plus. Welcome to NSW.

 

[McLovin]

In these pages, you won't find me much agreeing with posters Orr and McLovin. But I am with them on this issue!

I'm not a "lycra" bicyclist, but an enthusiastic one. In Sydney central, bicyclists are a reviled breed. The dedicated bicycle lanes are loathed by motorists. Influential people have whispered in the ear of the NSW government. That's where these nanny state laws have come from.

So we have this five-fold increase in the penalties for bicyclists, on let's face it, trivial offences.

SirR, these increased penalties, if for now unlikely to be enforced outside the city - just wait until the out-of-town police task force arrives, and books everyone in town!

Take your bull mastiff or siberian husky down to the local pram park and let them run around off-leash - sure no problem.

Bicycle through the same park without a stryofoam helmet and look out, penalty notice $300 plus. Welcome to NSW.

I agree. This has nothing to do with over population and everything to do with the government thinking it can get away with this sort of rubbish. Yesterday I had to pick up some dry cleaning. I parked about 10 metres from the dry cleaners, and knowing I wouldn't take more than two minutes and having no change on me, I didn't get a ticket. Of course low and behold as I walk out there's a parking inspector giving me a $116 ticket for my outrageous infraction. In Melbourne the same fine would have been $30. Of course it's not revenue raising. Someone explain how on Earth the punishment fits the "crime".

 

[SirRumpole]

I agree. This has nothing to do with over population and everything to do with the government thinking it can get away with this sort of rubbish. Yesterday I had to pick up some dry cleaning. I parked about 10 metres from the dry cleaners, and knowing I wouldn't take more than two minutes and having no change on me, I didn't get a ticket. Of course low and behold as I walk out there's a parking inspector giving me a $116 ticket for my outrageous infraction. In Melbourne the same fine would have been $30. Of course it's not revenue raising. Someone explain how on Earth the punishment fits the "crime".

Well, there a a few things you can do.

1. Take the matter to court and encourage everyone else to do the same so you flood the court system and make collecting the fines uneconomic.

2. Get a mob of friends, abduct a parking inspector, tie him/her to a tree and throw sewerage on them, making it perfectly clear that any parking inspector is fair game so that no one wants to do the job. Result; free parking.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Bicycle helmets don't kill.

Bicycle helmets do kill.

They are uncomfortable and silly looking to wear, and discourage people from cycling. Many of those people discouraged would have had better health had they cycled.

Thus they are harmful, in Australia to population health.

This pilfering of people's money by NSW for refusing to wear these silly, silly objects is a new take on idiocy, or it may be something more sinister, such as Orwell's 1984.

You make people wear a piece of styrofoam on their head. The police watch out for you if you don't. Then they fine you. Then they throw you in prison if you do not pay.

It all started with styrofoam helmets, the worker's enemy, the enemy of fitness for those who most need it, smokers, fat people, the indigent, the waddling, the coughing, the artery clogged, such as I.

gg

 

[qldfrog]

To rephrase it more precisely:
Bicycle Helmets do not Kill
BUT
Mandatory Bicycle Helmets Kill
And you can find study pointed to the above

 

[McLovin]

Well, there a a few things you can do.

1. Take the matter to court and encourage everyone else to do the same so you flood the court system and make collecting the fines uneconomic.

2. Get a mob of friends, abduct a parking inspector, tie him/her to a tree and throw sewerage on them, making it perfectly clear that any parking inspector is fair game so that no one wants to do the job. Result; free parking.

One sounds good. If someone else with more time on their hands organises it I'll partake.

 

[Uncle Festivus]

Bicycle helmets do kill.

They are uncomfortable and silly looking to wear, and discourage people from cycling. Many of those people discouraged would have had better health had they cycled.

Thus they are harmful, in Australia to population health.

This pilfering of people's money by NSW for refusing to wear these silly, silly objects is a new take on idiocy, or it may be something more sinister, such as Orwell's 1984.

You make people wear a piece of styrofoam on their head. The police watch out for you if you don't. Then they fine you. Then they throw you in prison if you do not pay.

It all started with styrofoam helmets, the worker's enemy, the enemy of fitness for those who most need it, smokers, fat people, the indigent, the waddling, the coughing, the artery clogged, such as I.

gg

They are uncomfortable and silly looking to wear, and discourage people from cycling. Many of those people discouraged would have had better health had they cycled.

Just more excuses by lazy people.

The problem appears to be that all those who don't like wearing helmets think it's just more meddling by big government into their personal lives. The same meddling that requires all cars to have standardised seat belts and for the occupants to wear them, for sole purpose of which is to save the lives of all people regardless of whether they wanted to wear them or not.

Perhaps the anti helmetters can organise a visit to a hospital spinal ward to say hello to those who have head, neck or spinal injuries from a fall from a bike or motorbike to encourage them to not wear any helmets next time. The fact that there is a next time would be attributed to them wearing a helmet. The ones that don't wear helmets simply go straight to the morgue.

As for being the workers enemy, well, that's just showing a complete ignorance for preventing head injuries and harks back to the bad old days of the beginning of the industrial revolution where workplace deaths were matter of fact, until the workers themselves rose up and demanded better safety regulations.

I think we should all have freedom of choice to do what we like but when your choice is not to wear a helmet then it's left to the rest of society ie the ones who do abide by the rules, to care and pay for you while you are hospitalised for your injuries, perhaps for the rest of your life - if you are so lucky!

So, where is the evidence that wearing a helmet kills? Do you have evidence that wearing a helmet resulted in more severe injuries than would otherwise have been the case by not wearing a helmet?

I thought not.

 

[Junior]

I genuinely appreciate the anti-government meddling attitude here, and agree helmets should not be compulsory for tourists or those staying on the bike paths and away from Australia's aggressive motorists, BUT

I've dated two nurses in my time, and having seen the hospital admissions first-hand both were adamant that helmets do, in fact save lives, and significantly reduce instances of serious trauma to one's scone.

 

[Knobby22]

Fractured a rib cycling a few days ago + grazes in quite a few spots.
My stupidity. Going down a wooden bridge I started sliding.

I know so many people who have been hurt cycling. One had a big dent in his helmet, another with a broken shoulder, another in hospital for weeks after being hit by a car. Not to mention that Olympic accident.

Dangerous game .. but fun. Like horse riding which I also enjoy, and skiing.
Cars don't do it for me.

 

[PZ99]

Fractured a rib cycling a few days ago + grazes in quite a few spots.
My stupidity. Going down a wooden bridge I started sliding.

I know so many people who have been hurt cycling. One had a big dent in his helmet, another with a broken shoulder, another in hospital for weeks after being hit by a car. Not to mention that Olympic accident.

Dangerous game .. but fun. Like horse riding which I also enjoy, and skiing.
Cars don't do it for me.

They way things are going you'll be made to wear a helmet, mask and passport even when driving your car.

Speedy recovery on that rib mate

 

[SirRumpole]

Speedy recovery on that rib mate

Ditto from me.

 

[Ferret]

Sorry to hear that Knobby. Hope you are back on your bike soon.

I love my cycling too, but all to aware of the dangers. Despite being careful, it only takes one bad car driver and things can get nasty.