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Benazir Bhutto killed in suicide attack at rally

Are you saying you think, from that video, that that gunman could have missed? with all of the three shots?
Are you saying that blind freddy couldn't tell multiple bullet wounds. ?

I am not saying that no bullet hit her, I am just saying that they should have let a full post martum to determine the cause of death, rather than saying I saw 3 bullet wounds. Can you tell me the experience of her friend in seeing bullet wounds and distinguising them from pallet or lever ones?? I donot believe the story of the givernment either, but I guess some portion of blame lies with the benazir's party and her husband to not let the inquiry run its course. Can you name a murder/assination which ended without a postmartum in modern times? It is tentamount to hiding the truth and facts. I know their party will never exhume her body and this matter will remain a subject of discussion for years to come.

I think if the final statement was not hurried it would have only presented only one story and no one would have objected to that. Still I beleive the politics is more involved than telling transparently what happened. I am also surprised as to why there were no camera's pointing to the rally. Personally I think assination by a sniper story is more dramatic and enigmatic than a simple accidental death. As I said earlier, Benazir was killed and no one is denying this fact. The focus should be on capturing the culprit and stablizing the country, rather than starting a never ending balme game.

Are you saying you believe the sunroof lever theory in preference to the bullet(s) theory (or give it equal weight)?

I am giving equal weitage to both of them and personally like to exhume the body to find out the truth...

Here's another question - no real importance this one (this is "pinch of salt" territory, my own theory ..) ... if the blast of the bomb was significant where her head was (since it went off behind the car - and then the lever killed her, etc - and if the bomb was full of pelletts - then why doesn't she have at least a pellet or two in her body.?
Interesting observation and this kind of thinking should be applied to solve the case :) Anyway her car was bullet proof ( and somewhat blast proof), if you see some of the pictures it has a shielding around sunroof as well. Plus the blast might not be perfect. I think it was not a simple lever and is there to hold the strange looking( shield around sunroof...). It might also point to the fact that the lever in her car might be a hidden james-bond style pistol and might have killed her... The person who designed that lever should also be involved in the inquiry.... The blast and shooting might be a cover up..
As for who takes over the party now etc , and their level of "corruption" - how do you score Musharraf on corruption? I would agree with Imran Khan when he says he's blatantly corrupt.
Mate plese tell me a simple fact. ZA bhutto's property was divided into 5 heirs ( benazir getting the least amount ), and still she is the richiest person in the family around US $1.2Billion while the rest of her family might not even be worth more than a few million US $. She must have invested into FMG to get that much rich so quickly?? Also note the UN based, oil for food program inquiry into her family business. I will doubt the Pakistan corruption charges but UN inquiry is a separate thing. Most or all the fingers point to her husband ( not her ) to all these corruption charges. And the sad truth is that out of all this mess he is the immediate beneficiary.
I am not saying Musharraf is not corrupt, his lust for power is the main problem. He wants power, he creates an illusion of alqeada in pakistan, he gets support(money and political) from Uncle sam. Benazir might have exposed that fact and would have controlled this matter much better as that was on her agenda. Musharraf has now even more ground to create a much bigger illusion of Alqeada ( even if it does not exist he has to say it exists). The worst part is no one exactly know anything about alqeada. It acts like a franchise, with minimum control of centre. It is the best form of organization to blame something, which mush is conviently doing.

If musharraf goes and a transperant governtment comes in, it might stablize the situation. But if musharraf clings to power a bit longer, it will create more chaos, something alqeda thrieves upon.


PS. I am just pointing out the facts that in Pakistan, every move is politically motivated ( either govt. or bhutto's party) and should be throughly investigated before forming an opinion. Yes govt. seems right now to cover up her death and shift the blame, but bhutto's family has not helped either to ascertain the facts.
 
1. If musharraf goes and a transperant governtment comes in, it might stablize the situation. But if musharraf clings to power a bit longer, it will create more chaos, something alqeda thrieves upon.

2. I am just pointing out the facts that in Pakistan, every move is politically motivated ( either govt. or bhutto's party) and should be throughly investigated before forming an opinion.

3.Yes govt. seems right now to cover up her death and shift the blame, but bhutto's family has not helped either to ascertain the facts.
1. agreed
2. I've seen the video - as ex-military with weapons and explosives experience, I'm convinced
3. why would the family trust the govt?? they have just displaced all the judiciary !! (refer the thread on that topic if you wish)

even the doctors at the hospital seem to be gagged ( I read)
 
1. In killing Bhutto, the Islamists overreached (possibly aided by rogue elements in Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, one of the murkiest outfits on earth).

2. Just as al-Qa'ida in Iraq overplayed its hand and alienated that country's Sunni Arabs, ....

3. this assassination may disillusion Pakistanis who lent half an ear to Islamist rhetoric.

4. A creature of insatiable ambition, Bhutto will become a martyr.

5. In death, she may pay back some of the enormous debt she owes her country.

Interesting article mayk.
I've personally never been to Pakistan, and only followed developments recently. But I've extracted some lines from the end of that article ...

1. interesting - rogue elements in the govt ;) Could it be that AQ were't even involved?
2. the latest US theory - so far I've only heard it from the US military - but he could be right
3. sure hope so
4. sure hope so
5. whatever - provided 3 comes to fruition (imo)
 
Another intersting article with some good references and comments....

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2233261,00.html
'London is like a second home for me,' she once told me. ..........I know all my favourite ice cream parlours. I used to particularly love going to the one at Marble Arch: Baskin Robbins. Sometimes, I used to drive all the way up from Oxford just for an ice cream and then drive back again. That was my idea of sin.'
Turns out she and I have something in common - except that I walk to the local McDonalds (but only when the softserve is on 30c special) :eek:

Gee you have to get well into that article to find some meat .. but you're right .... she was no Aung San Suu Kyi, :eek:

For Bhutto was no Aung San Suu Kyi. During her first 20-month premiership, astonishingly, she failed to pass a single piece of major legislation. Amnesty International accused her government of having one of the world's worst records of custodial deaths, killings and torture.

Within her party, she declared herself the lifetime president of the PPP and refused to let her brother Murtaza challenge her. When he persisted in doing so, he ended up shot dead in highly suspicious circumstances outside the family home. Murtaza's wife Ghinwa and his daughter Fatima, as well as Benazir's mother, all firmly believed that Benazir gave the order to have him killed.

As recently as the autumn, Benazir did and said nothing to stop President Musharraf ordering the US and UK-brokered 'rendition' of her rival, Nawaz Sharif, to Saudi Arabia and so remove from the election her most formidable rival. Many of her supporters regarded her deal with Musharraf as a betrayal of all her party stood for.

PS I think the fact remains that her death has left a gaping vacuum in Pakistani politics yes? power hungry probably, pragmatic to a fault perhaps - still she was probably gonna win the election - she has been been shot, the govt invent a sunroof theory, AQ deny involvement - there are other questions here, yes?
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/29/2128778.htm?section=justin

mayk, this article concentrates more on the future ;) ....

Global fears for Pakistan after Bhutto killing
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:11pm AEDT
The assassination of Pakistan opposition leader Benazir Bhutto has sent shockwaves around the world, with calls for President Pervez Musharraf to stay on the path to democracy.

Ms Bhutto was killed in a suicide bomb attack at an election rally on Thursday.

Australia's Minister for Foreign Affairs, Stephen Smith, says he has spoken with Pakistan's Foreign Minister about the assassination of Ms Bhutto.

Mr Smith says he condemned Ms Bhutto's murder and urged all parties to exercise restraint at a moment of great difficulty.

He told his Pakistani counterpart that Australia strongly supports a return to democratic processes in Pakistan and the holding of elections at the earliest possible opportunity.. etc
 
A Pakistani guy at work says the local talk is that it was a
military/intelligence hit....Pakistani secret service killed her
Musharraf ordered it and blames EQ.
 
Now with new video emerging I highly doubt the government lever theory. But previously it was prematurely to assume otherwise. Still too many finger pointing and looks like the work of AQ.

I still higly doubt the military intelligence killed bhutto, as she has aready done the deal with musharraf, and was on the way to become prime minister. But I might be wrong but we will never find out.
 

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i havent read too many other posts so i apologise if its been said.

i guy shoots her in the head. immediately someone else standing right next to him blows up.
the bomber knew where the shooter was. did the shooter know he was gonna get bombed?
the car was bulletproof/bombproof. all knew this. the bomber was there to kill the shooter.
if the shooter wanted to die, he could have turned the gun on himself.
i dont think the shooter knew of the bomber. why go to the effort?
to ensure the shooter doesnt survive and talk.

put me down for a paki govt operation.
 
Obviously the Pakistan government wants to convince the masses that she wasnt assassinated so as to stop or limit the massive economic (and political) damage.

They say many 100s of millions damage already from rioting, destroying public proerty, and x amount more on the stock exchange etc etc.


The link posted above is a good read ...

FOR the next several days you're going to read and hear a great deal of pious nonsense in the wake of the assassination of Pakistan's former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

Her country is better off without her. She may serve Pakistan better after her death than she did in life.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22987921-7583,00.html
 
Her 19 year old son Bilawal Bhutto has been named as leader of the PPP.

19 year old kids running Mcdonalds outlets is scary enough, but running a Nuclear armed country, whoa.

a snip from an article about him ......

Other details are revealed by online friends: the Guardian daily printed a picture of him in fancy dress as the devil at a Halloween Party with red horns and a trident.

"We're ready to bring hell on earth ... mwaaahahahahahah," he reportedly added in a comment appended to the photo, posted by a friend.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080102/19/15et4.html
 
Her 19 year old son Bilawal Bhutto has been named as leader of the PPP.

19 year old kids running Mcdonalds ...
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080102/19/15et4.html
Oxford undergraduate ... mmm could be worse - could have been Cambridge like Bob Hawke ;) (studied at Cambridge and UWA - maybe the latter was the "hotbed of reds" lol ? ;)

19 year old - and a dynasty appointment :( - ridiculous sheesh .
Musharraf is in for 10 more years I guess.

Online support grows for 'hot' Bhutto son
LONDON (AFP) - Bilawal Bhutto, thrust into the political spotlight by the assassination of his mother in Pakistan, can count on support from at least one source -- female Facebook fans who describe him as "hot".

"Oh My God he's cute," said one contributor to "Let's not assassinate Bilawal Bhutto because he's hot, ok?," a new group on the social networking site after the 19-year-old was named last week to succeed his mother as leader of the Pakistan People's Party (PPP).

"Oh God, I totally agree. He's so sexy," added another member of the group, which so far had 48 members.

The Oxford undergraduate, who attended his mother Benazir Bhutto's funeral last Friday, reveals a few things about himself on his own Facebook site, describing his political views as "liberal".
But sounds like Bilawal has a sense of humour at least ..
and lol votes "top filmmaker = Michael Moore" ;)
"What's Islamic extremism? It's strict adherence to a particular interpretation of seventh century Islamic law as practiced by the prophet Mohammed, and when I say 'strict adherence', I'm not kidding around.

"Men are forced to pray, wear their beards a certain length. Among my favorites is there's only one acceptable cheer at a football match: Allah-hu-Akbar. God is great.

"If your guys are getting creamed, then you're on your own,"
he wrote on his Facebook site, which says he has 315 friends.

Bilawal, who is due to return to his studies in Oxford this month, lists his hobbies as cricket, swimming, squash and shooting, his favourite TV shows include "The Simpsons" and top filmmakers Michael Moore and Quentin Tarantino.

Reminds me you're not allowed to call "mine, mine" on an Aussie soccer field yes? - whatta lotta ..
 
Firstly, I will like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aitzaz_Ahsan to lead the party.

Secondly, I thought that ZA Bhutto true family heir fatima Bhutto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Bhutto should have been the chairperson of PPP. I highly regard her views and is considered an intellectual and intelligent ( even more than benazir) person by many.

The best part of her personality is her contribution to Earth quake victims and some of the best columns she has written in some respected newspapers.

She is educated not in Oxford but some humble uni in canada. She is photogenic and beautiful too.....


Bhutto's party is doomed under Asif Zardari, that is for sure.
 
I recently read the Autobiography of Pervez Musharraf.

Its called " In the Line of Fire " published by Simon and Schuster.

It paints a picture of the "democratic" parties in Pakistan as a bunch of self-serving, corrupt ,incompetent, feudal and inbred kleptocrats.

If only some of it is true I'd prefer to see Pakistan remain in Gen. Musharraf's control.

The election of one of the present parties would lead to even more unrest in a country which the West needs as an ally.

Pakistan has al Qaeda in its Northern provinces, actively pursues them and is dedicated to their elimination.

Having criminals and juveniles running a country which possesses the Atom Bomb, a crumbling economy and a sworn enemy, in India at its southern border. would be a recipe for disaster.

gg
 
So GG, you think that double standards of west should continue to exist in countiries like Pakistan ?Damn democracy and damn with the wishes of people in those countries?

Dictatorship is a recipe for disaster anywhere in the world. What is worst than dictatorship is unavailability of Justice to people and absence of rule of law, both mercilessly crunched by Musharraf.

Musharraf is no saint and all the media created drama of the rise of alqaeda is there, just to twist the thinking of people, who have no idea of what is going on. You can claim any person to belong to alqaeda but to prove this you need independent courts and rule of law, which is absent and infact destroyed by Musharraf.

Please tell me anohter fact recently reported that only two suicide attacks have been throughly investigated and bought to justice, Venture to guess which one were those? Yes you are right both of which targetted
Musharraf. So out of hundreds of attach only two investigated. This is justice in Pakistan for you, different for rich and poor.

Will West support musharraf if there was no alqeada ? Who is the beneficiary of this drama? Where is the money going, is it reaching the poor people to improve their education ?

I don't think politicians are saint, but they can be held responsible not like musharraf, who is above law and writes new laws and promagulate them as he wises.
 
So GG, you think that double standards of west should continue to exist in countiries like Pakistan ?Damn democracy and damn with the wishes of people in those countries?

Dictatorship is a recipe for disaster anywhere in the world. What is worst than dictatorship is unavailability of Justice to people and absence of rule of law, both mercilessly crunched by Musharraf.

Musharraf is no saint and all the media created drama of the rise of alqaeda is there, just to twist the thinking of people, who have no idea of what is going on. You can claim any person to belong to alqaeda but to prove this you need independent courts and rule of law, which is absent and infact destroyed by Musharraf.

Please tell me anohter fact recently reported that only two suicide attacks have been throughly investigated and bought to justice, Venture to guess which one were those? Yes you are right both of which targetted
Musharraf. So out of hundreds of attach only two investigated. This is justice in Pakistan for you, different for rich and poor.

Will West support musharraf if there was no alqeada ? Who is the beneficiary of this drama? Where is the money going, is it reaching the poor people to improve their education ?

I don't think politicians are saint, but they can be held responsible not like musharraf, who is above law and writes new laws and promagulate them as he wises.

mayk.,

It is impossible to apply western democratic standards to Pakistan.

Musharraf's recent autobiography though is worthwhile reading.

The average person in Pakistan has no access to democratic process with or without the army in control. The ruling class controls democratic process through feudal births, marriages and deaths as with B.Bhutto.

The judiciary is the judiciary. Some stability, no power ,and again drawn from the ruling class.

I cannot see why Mushaarraf is demonised more than Bhutto etc.

gg
 
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