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Benazir Bhutto killed in suicide attack at rally

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comment from the peanut gallery - Bhutto was (allegedly) gonna take the fight to the Taliban (northern provinces) - and (as chops pointed out) Musharraf has done a deal with em instead :eek:

your book go down that road gg ?

PS some worrying press releases
http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2001/07/13/stories/041355rr.htm

GENERAL Pervez Musharraf is a typical army man. Diplomatic niceties are not his forte. Down to earth idiom is his. Consider this advice to Russia, a nation he has been trying to cultivate: ``Recognise Taliban and buy peace''. It is very blunt and to the point. ``The only way to influence how the Taliban act is by recognising the regime,'' he told Izvestia, the Russian daily, in a recent interview. His argument is simple: ``No one but the Taliban are capable of guaranteeing peace in Afghanistan today. Wh ether anyone likes or not the Taliban are a reality.''
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"No one but the Taliban are capable of guaranteeing peace in Afghanistan today?" ??
we might as well give it to them ?? :confused:
 
2020hindsight said:
comment from the peanut gallery - Bhutto was (allegedly) gonna take the fight to the Taliban (northern provinces) - and (as chops pointed out) Musharraf has done a deal with em instead :eek:

your book go down that road gg ?

PS some worrying press releases
http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2001/07/13/stories/041355rr.htm



"No one but the Taliban are capable of guaranteeing peace in Afghanistan today?" ??
we might as well give it to them ?? :confused:
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2020

Its not my book, its Musharraf's.

He would argue that he needs to keep his alliances with the Northern alliance who are tribal cross border cousins of many Afghans. He doesn't speak kindly of the Taleban in his book. He considers Mullah Omar a complete nutter and abhorrhed the demolition of the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan.

It was published early 2006 so I can't answer for his up to date opinion on the Taleban, long may they rot.

Its always worthwhile looking at someone elses viewpoint otherwise its all too easy to be led by popular opinion such as the Sydney Daily Telegraph or The Guardian in the UK.

gg
 
thanks gg
this is not a bad website also ..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/who-benefits-from-bhutto_b_78584.html

The inevitable question after any assassination is: who benefited from it? The answer in this case is Musharraf and the extremists. Bhutto was the enemy of both. Could they have worked together to eliminate her?

With her murder Musharraf has had his chief rival removed and he can resume his authoritarian rule with the Americans off his back: Washington has nowhere else to turn. He is the man. He has secured power--for the time being anyway. Musharraf has played America brilliantly. His intelligence service helped create and still has ties to al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Indeed, Bhutto accused him of harboring extremists for just such an attack. Their claim of responsibility gives Musharraf deniability, since he is supposed to be fighting them.

Now Musharraf can clamp down on the human rights and democracy crowd, his real enemy, while running his phony war against extremists, all the while taking American military aid intended to fight terrorism and use it to upgrade his defenses against India. A very clever, but dastardly plan.

If Musharraf's claims are to be believed, then rogue elements of his intelligence service were involved in the killing and not Musharraf himself. But the effect is the same: he is not effectively fighting the terrorists and he benefits from their enmity with democracy and from American financial backing.

But Musharraf's game is dangerous. For the moment, the Taliban and al-Qaeda won't touch him, because he has their back, as it were. He is an uneasy ally for now, keeping the gullible Americans, or at least American public, believing he is actually fighting them.

Musharraf must fear that this game will last only until al-Qaeda and the Taliban feel strong enough to try to overthrow him and rule Pakistan with their allies in military intelligence. That day hopefully may never come. But in the meantime he is a very useful placeholder for them.
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Winston Churchill :- :(
“Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry.”
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PS some worrying press releases
http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessli...s/041355rr.htm
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It is before the General's reversal of taliban! 9-July-2001 and may I say before 9/11. Remember Taliban was creation of pakistan so why would Mush not support them then? Plus your reference is from an indian newspaper a sworn rivial of Pakistan, a more neutral source might be more appropriate.

Taliban and Alqeada are different entities. taleban are local afghan people while Alqeada are foreign fighters the real cause of trouble. Generally Taleban do not like Alqaeda ( because they led to their downfall...), having said that some alqaeda sympathesizer do exist in the taliban rank. A good political stragtegy will be to make peace with Taliban on the condition that they will 'smoke out' the alqaeda from afghanistan. It is what Musharraf supports and some NATO and EU are considering ( a couple of weeks ago, Karzi's govt threw out some European Union staff on suspicions of holding talk with the talibans?)

Taliban are now a political victim as government is controlled by Northern Alliance ( Non-pushton ) people. Taliban fought them before 9/11 and were sucessful in beating them. If west can just open their eyes a bit better and use politics and talks rather than brute force(US strategy...) I think we might see more peace around the world.
 
2020hindsight said:
thanks gg
this is not a bad website also ..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/who-benefits-from-bhutto_b_78584.html



Winston Churchill :- :(
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Thanks 2020.

A good webpage

I guess anyone in Pakistan, Afghanistan , Kashmir or India could have killed her.

That evil husband of hers could have done it.

The selfish gene might have surfaced. He only has half a Bhutto to compete with now, and the other half is his, possibly.

Conspiracy theories abound.

None more credible than the next.

Read Musharraf's book. Its a good read.

I'm sure you can borrow it from your local library, if you'r concerned about your trading profits going to Pervez M.

gg
 
Benazir Interview 2Nov07

(including claim that Bin Laden Murdered ??)

Aired on 2nd November 2007,David Frost the presenter did not challenge her on her assertion (2:14) that Bin Laden was murdered, so maybe he was and the West has not announced it. It would make sense that the West would cover up such a truth, as Bin Laden is needed as a "bogeyman" to continue the farcical "War on Terror"
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Ironically she asks for Scotland Yard's help to investigate past crimes - now they are to go in to help find her killer :eek:


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article643800.ece
Speaking exclusively to The Sun, Asif Ali Zardari said: “We are still in mourning but it is right the elections are going ahead.”

He spoke out as President Pervez Musharraf announced that Scotland Yard detectives are to investigate the murder.

Asif added: “Restoring democracy in Pakistan would be a fitting tribute to my wife. She had defied extremists and terrorists to bring freedom back to this country.”

The election, due to take place next Tuesday, will now be on February 18. Asif, 51, is co-chairman of Benazir’s Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) alongside the couple’s only son, Bilawal,
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gg said:
I'm sure you can borrow it from your local library, if you'r concerned about your trading profits going to Pervez M.
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lol - good idea - watch the five cent pieces and the ten cent pieces look after themselves ;)
 
including claim that Bin Laden Murdered
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I hope it is a slip of tongue, she meant to say Daniel pearl. But it might be true that Bin laden is dead and theis news is kept away from public, so that they might not demand a return of their forces from afghanistan...just like Iraq after saddam's capture.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/08/2134140.htm?section=justin
Bhutto's husband attacks Musharraf death 'insult'
Posted 4 hours 45 minutes ago

Benazir Bhutto's husband has attacked Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf for saying the opposition leader was to blame for her own assassination by poking her head out of her car sunroof.

Asif Ali Zardari also said that Mr Musharraf's admission that a bullet may have killed her - not a blow to the head from the sunroof lever as officials previously said - showed the authorities had "something to hide".

"I think he is trying to shift responsibility, to say the least," Mr Zardari, 51, said in an interview late on Monday at the Bhutto family's ancestral home in the rural southern village of Naudero.

"She's on record of having written to him asking permission for international assistance and security which they denied her," said Mr Zardari, who has called for a UN probe into his wife's death.

Mr Zardari's comments intensified the rancour between Mr Musharraf and Ms Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party (PPP), now co-chaired by him and the couple's 19-year-old son, Bilawal, ahead of February 18 elections.


'An insult'

Mr Musharraf told US television network CBS that Ms Bhutto was at fault for putting her upper body outside the sunroof to greet supporters at an election rally on December 27, moments before she was killed in a gun and suicide attack.

"I think it was she to blame alone. Nobody else. Responsibility is hers," he said.

Asked if he felt insulted by Mr Musharraf's comments, Mr Zardari added: "It's a total insult to the cause of democracy that he could not save the one person that could keep Pakistan together."

"They have changed stories four times... Why do you think you change stories? Because you have something to hide," Mr Zardari said.

He dismissed Mr Musharraf's claims that Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network was behind the attack.

But he said that if elected, the PPP would continue Ms Bhutto's pro-Western outlook and strong stance against Islamic militancy, adding that he would welcome more US assistance.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/13/2137321.htm?section=justin

Musharraf calls for Bhutto's exhumation
Posted 8 hours 26 minutes ago

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf called for the body of opposition leader Benazir Bhutto to be exhumed as he rejected charges that the Government was complicit in her assassination.

In a wide-ranging interview with Newsweek magazine published online, Mr Musharraf also again refused to let the United States launch CIA operations against Al Qaeda in Pakistan.

Pakistan has been in turmoil since Ms Bhutto's assassination on December 27 and her Pakistan People's Party has challenged the Government's reports on her death.

No autopsy was ever conducted.

While her party insists she was struck by a gunman's bullet before a suicide bomber blew himself up, the Government has said she was killed when she banged her head on her car's sunroof.

Mr Musharraf has since said that it is possible she was killed by a bullet.

In the latest interview he said Ms Bhutto's body should be exhumed to determine the cause of death once and for all.

"Yes, exhume it - 100 per cent - I would like it to be exhumed," he told Newsweek from Rawalpindi.

But he ruled out ordering a post-mortem without the agreement of Ms Bhutto's family.

Asked why he should not use his executive power to order one, he said: "Everything is not black and white here. It would have very big political ramifications."

"If I just ordered the body exhumed, that would be careless, unless [Bhutto's] people agreed. But they will not."

He said Ms Bhutto's supporters have not agreed to a post-mortem "because they know it's a fact there is nothing wrong". :confused:
(yet he admitted there might have been a bullet involved??)

"Everybody is trying to gain political advantage - the entire opposition is trying to take political advantage."

Ms Bhutto's family has said it will only agree if Mr Musharraf allows a UN-led inquiry into the murder, which he has ruled out.

"There cannot be a UN investigation," Mr Musharraf told Newsweek.

"There are not two or three countries involved. Why should there be a UN investigation? This is ridiculous." ;)

Mr Musharraf was also asked in the interview about reports that the US is thinking about launching CIA operations in Pakistan with or without Pakistan's approval.

"We are totally in cooperation on the intelligence side," he said.

"But we are totally against [a military operation]. We are a sovereign country. We will ask for assistance from outsiders. They won't impose their will on us."
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just for the record... Musharraf allegedly being tough with "islamic militants" :eek:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/19/2142100.htm?section=justin
Ninety militants killed in Bhutto suspect hunt
Posted 7 hours 35 minutes ago
Pakistani soldiers have killed up to 90 Islamist militants near the Afghan border, after the CIA chief linked the leader of the extremists in the region to the assassination of opposition leader Benazir Bhutto.

The fierce clashes were the latest in a series to rock the lawless Pakistani tribal region of South Waziristan, the stronghold of wanted Islamist warlord Baitullah Mehsud and his Al Qaeda and Taliban allies.
Militants have stepped up attacks on troops in the region since Ms Bhutto was killed last month, underlining US fears Pakistan is spiralling out of control ahead of February 18 elections.

CIA director Michael Hayden earlier told The Washington Post in an interview that Al Qaeda and allies of tribal chief Mehsud were behind her killing at a political rally on December 27.
"This was done by that network around Baitullah Mehsud. We have no reason to question that," Mr Hayden said, echoing assertions by President Pervez Musharraf's Government about Ms Bhutto's death.

The CIA chief was quoted as saying there is a "nexus now that probably was always there in latency but is now active: a nexus between Al Qaeda and various extremist and separatist groups."
The rebels have shown their growing strength in the past week, capturing a Pakistani paramilitary fort in the tribal belt and killing seven soldiers on Wednesday, with another 15 troops still missing.

Soldiers yesterday fought off a "large number" of insurgents who surrounded another fort at Ladha in South Waziristan and attacked it with rockets, the military said in a statement.
"Security forces used artillery, mortars and small-arms fire to engage the miscreants. Reportedly, 50-60 miscreants were killed and [the] rest of them dispersed," it said. There were no casualties among troops, it added.

Separately, in the Chaghmalai area of South Waziristan, militants ambushed a convoy moving from the main town of Wana, prompting a fierce-one hour gun battle, the statement added.
Between 20 and 30 rebels were killed, while four troops were injured and two army vehicles damaged, it added.

Pakistani helicopter gunships also opened fire on two suspect cars near a third fort in South Waziristan on Thursday, killing a further eight militants, it said.

The growing boldness of the militants in challenging Pakistani troops is set to provoke a bloody showdown in the tribal belt, with pressure on Islamabad to take action against Mehsud. Mr Musharraf's Government issued a purported telephone recording of Mehsud, the day after Ms Bhutto's death, in which he is is said to congratulate one of his followers for her assassination.
But many Pakistanis are sceptical about the tape, and also about the conflicting official accounts of whether she died from a gunshot wound, a suicide blast or a head injury from her car sunroof.

The country has also seen no let-up in a wave of suicide bombings that have killed nearly 900 people in the past year, with an attack on a Shiite mosque in the north-western city of Peshawar on Thursday leaving 10 people dead.
Echoing Mr Hayden's claims about a "nexus" of extremist groups, Pakistani officials said they believed the Sunni extremist group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, which has close links to both Mehsud and Al Qaeda, was behind the Peshawar attack.

"The bomber first fired some shots and then blew himself up. The modus operandi is the hallmark of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and it shows they have plans to stoke up sectarian hatred," a senior security official said.
Pakistan is on high alert ahead of the weekend Muslim festival of Ashura, which is often hit by sectarian violence. Ashura is when Shiites commemorate the death of the Prophet Mohammed's grandson in the seventh century.
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi has strong links to Osama bin Laden's network and its members have been convicted of involvement in the 2002 murder of US reporter Daniel Pearl and in several attempts to kill Mr Musharraf.
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2020hindsight said:
just for the record... Musharraf allegedly being tough with "islamic militants"
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There is a particularly good article on Pakistan democracy and feudalism in this weekend's AFR.

It paints a picture of Pakistan as being a patriarchal society for the past millenium, essential for its governance. As usual the poor and disenfranchised miss out.

Basically what it says is that patriarchy can subvert democracy as easily as it can swap dictators. This it does by the practice of large land holding families having a bet each way.

They put different members of the family in government, army, opposition and legal system, to ensure the continuity of their genetic hold over the wealth of the country. Thus no matter who wins or is in power, a member of the family keeps the clan safe from retribution.

Tout le change, toute la meme chose.

gg
 
British police say blast killed Pakistan's Bhutto
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL20840120080208

British police investigating the murder of Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto concluded she was killed by a head injury caused by the impact of a bomb blast, not by a bullet, they said in a report released on Friday.
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Seems to me another consipracy theory laid to rest. On another note her corrupt husband is trying to become prime minister...:eek: Scary.
 
mayk said:
British police say blast killed Pakistan's Bhutto
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL20840120080208

British police investigating the murder of Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto concluded she was killed by a head injury caused by the impact of a bomb blast, not by a bullet, they said in a report released on Friday.
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Seems to me another consipracy theory laid to rest. On another note her corrupt husband is trying to become prime minister...:eek: Scary.
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To put it to rest, she was shot in the neck which can be clearly seen in this video ==> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2a_1199047237

Now a days the conspiracy theory seems to be the governments official story.
 
Kimosabi said:
To put it to rest, she was shot in the neck which can be clearly seen in this video
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no argument from me kim ;)

Do I understand that Musharraf is sounding remarkably cocky for someone who has just been trounced at the polls (?)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/20/2168075.htm

PS Think I heard that the opposition parties have learned to "fight fire with fire" - arguably vigourous election rigging all over the place - no longer the sole domain of one party lol.
 
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