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Beggars a sign of the times, or a sign of the welfare state?

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sptrawler said:
I find it rather disconcerting, seeing beggars on our streets, we have a very good welfare system and to see beggars on the street is off putting.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscri...ab7ee4514fe4164e52b3b466391&memtype=anonymous

Is it because we don't pay them enough, or is it due to their choices?

I'm sure some have mental illness, but what about those who are able bodied, but chose that lifestyle?:confused:
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I think you'd need to have a residential address to receive/apply for welfare.
 
sptrawler said:
I find it rather disconcerting, seeing beggars on our streets, we have a very good welfare system and to see beggars on the street is off putting.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscri...ab7ee4514fe4164e52b3b466391&memtype=anonymous

Is it because we don't pay them enough, or is it due to their choices?

I'm sure some have mental illness, but what about those who are able bodied, but chose that lifestyle?:confused:
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I haven't had a lot of experience of them, we get the occasional busker with the open guitar case playing on the footpath.

Is the social safety net adequate ? Even business groups say that the dole is too low. Maybe we have squeezed the lemon too much.
 
SirRumpole said:
I haven't had a lot of experience of them, we get the occasional busker with the open guitar case playing on the footpath.

Is the social safety net adequate ? Even business groups say that the dole is too low. Maybe we have squeezed the lemon too much.
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Uber is also a sign of our declining economy.

It's slightly above what Vietnam used to have - a lot of unemployed people with a motobike sitting around waiting for tourists or locals needing a ride.

Uber is a bit more high tech and with a car instead of a motobike.
 
luutzu said:
I think you'd need to have a residential address to receive/apply for welfare.
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by the governments logic if your employed for 1 hour a fortnight they consider you employed. So by extension if it was posssible to let 1square metre of your property to a homeless person for 1 hour a fortnight that person wouldn't be homeless and there for be eligable for benefits.
So I ask $1 from that homeless person then I can let it for every other free hour for the next fortnight to other homeless total 14 x 24= $336 / sqm ... I'll give 2 so they can lay down and rest after doing there 'brown paper' work.
Imagine what that would cost the Government.
 
Just another sign that Melbourne is becoming an "international city". Along with that comes crime, violence, street gangs, traffic congestion like you've never seen before, high density living, multicultural divisions and the destruction of Medicare and welfare systems. All good though... because now we're international. Now we're on the world stage - we matter.
 
I wonder if they receive welfare, they have no address are usually in a derelict condition, would they have enough proof of identity to obtain a bank account?
 
I was in Sydney over the weekend - first time visiting in years. I was a bit horrified at the amount of beggars around Central, walked past 5 beggars in 2 minutes at the train station...
 
luutzu said:
I think you'd need to have a residential address to receive/apply for welfare.
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Maybe if they could return empty drink containers, it would help, but then they would be taking them out of people's recycle bins and that wouldn't be fair. We would be paying double.:D
 
Go to San Francisco and any notion of a correlation between welfare state and begging is put into context. Add to that the grifters who dupe tourists, second rate seafood and no sign of Karl Malden; the place is boring and really dangerous in spots.
 
Beggars have always been a part of our society, "...you gotta a smoke bud?"

Wondering if Sydney still have those pesky car windscreen cleaners that pestered you when stopped at a traffic lights?

Those beggars, or should I say buggers, would clean your windscreen even if ya told them to pee off then they'd expect payment for their "services".
 
Craton said:
Beggars have always been a part of our society, "...you gotta a smoke bud?"

Wondering if Sydney still have those pesky car windscreen cleaners that pestered you when stopped at a traffic lights?

Those beggars, or should I say buggers, would clean your windscreen even if ya told them to pee off then they'd expect payment for their "services".
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Still plenty of those in Melbourne.

I had a bloke recently with a dirty rag and ciggie hanging out of his mouth, ashing all over the car. Ended up with a windscreen in worse condition than beforehand!
 
Craton said:
Beggars have always been a part of our society, "...you gotta a smoke bud?"

Wondering if Sydney still have those pesky car windscreen cleaners that pestered you when stopped at a traffic lights?

Those beggars, or should I say buggers, would clean your windscreen even if ya told them to pee off then they'd expect payment for their "services".
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i reckon the average beggar earns more than a hard working low income earner..
welfare + donations.. ive seem some professional ones before

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rns-50000-a-year/story-e6freooo-1225765222551

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-...s-intimidate-women-tourists-melbourne/6621824
 
ggkfc said:
i reckon the average beggar earns more than a hard working low income earner..
welfare + donations.. ive seem some professional ones before

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rns-50000-a-year/story-e6freooo-1225765222551

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-...s-intimidate-women-tourists-melbourne/6621824
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Wait a second did you actually read the ABC story ? It was a report from the Salvation Army which did identify 9 professional beggars out of a total of 135. The whole issue is a worry but it isn't true or fair to describe all people down on their luck as professional beggars.
 
Go to San Francisco and any notion of a correlation between welfare state and begging is put into context. Add to that the grifters who dupe tourists, second rate seafood and no sign of Karl Malden; the place is boring and really dangerous in spots.
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San Francisco is what happens when a city becomes so wealthy the ordinary people can't afford to live in it.

Short story is that the Tech companies and their employees are so well off the price of property and rents has soared beyond the earning capacity of any average worker. Result ? Even employed people simply can't afford a basic flat. So they end up on the streets.

http://48hills.org/2016/02/16/five-myths-about-the-homeless-problem-in-san-francisco/ Excellent analysis of the situation
 
basilio said:
San Francisco is what happens when a city becomes so wealthy the ordinary people can't afford to live in it.

Short story is that the Tech companies and their employees are so well off the price of property and rents has soared beyond the earning capacity of any average worker. Result ? Even employed people simply can't afford a basic flat. So they end up on the streets.

http://48hills.org/2016/02/16/five-myths-about-the-homeless-problem-in-san-francisco/ Excellent analysis of the situation
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The same "trickle down" approach that the Turnbull government favours.
 
SirRumpole said:
The same "trickle down" approach that the Turnbull government favours.
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It's insane how the population could eat that "trickle down" bs.

Listen folks, we have to cut all the red tapes and work safety and cut your rights to form together to negotiate. That way, the corporations and their rich owners could earn more profit... if they earn more profit, they'll then hire more of you - and all for less pay and benefits - but mor eof you will get to work.

So more jobs, low pay... and you can work two or three jobs. Yaayy...

And on your days off to relax... well the parks and the waters and their air are all stuffed because in order for corporations to make more money, let's not allow Mother Nature to get in the way.
 
Interesting to see how San Francisco has reached it's current situation of extreme wealth and extreme poverty. This is the result. Complex story but the basic facts are that market forces are allowed to run freely.

Seriously? Evicting a 99-year-old?

This is how bad things are getting: Iris Canada could lose her home of more than 60 years, despite a lifetime lease
By Tim Redmond -
April 12, 2016
40
4331

Supporters of a 99-year-old woman facing eviction from a Page Street apartment rallied in front of the Superior Court building this afternoon asking that Iris Canada, who moved into her apartment in the 1940s, be allowed to say for the rest of her life.

The owners of the property, Peter Owens, Carolyn Radisch, and Steven Owens, at least two of whom now live on the East Coast, want Canada out within days. But she’s won at least a temporary stay while the courts try to sort this out.
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http://48hills.org/2016/04/12/seriously-evicting-99-year-old/
 
That 48 Hills paper has some very thoughtful articles. This one caught my eye because it examined some of the causes of sky high property prices and rent in SF and possible solutions. It echoes the problems we face in our capital cities.

Nimbys, SFBARF, and a clueless writer at the NY Times

Can the reporters who take on housing in San Francisco please take the time to understand some basic facts?
By Tim Redmond -
Apr 23rd
\
The easy thing to do is just try to ignore the likes of SFBARF and hope they will go away. But they don’t, and in fact, a technology reporter at The New York Times, who like other tech writers has suddenly discovered that housing is an issue in San Francisco and decided to chime in, just did a major feature on the group.

And this week, our own C.W. Nevius added another story that essentially argues that if only we stopped all the rules and regulations and got rid of neighborhood opposition, middle-class people would be able to afford the rent.
Lots of people, young and old, are protesting speculator greed and poor planning. They don't oppose "all construction."

I just wish people who wrote about the SF housing crisis would first understand the basic facts, which are not that complicated.
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http://48hills.org/2016/04/23/nimbys-sfbarf-clueless-writers-ny-times-2/
 
luutzu said:
Uber is also a sign of our declining economy.

It's slightly above what Vietnam used to have - a lot of unemployed people with a motobike sitting around waiting for tourists or locals needing a ride.

Uber is a bit more high tech and with a car instead of a motobike.
Click to expand...

Really? My opinion is that Uber is a really smart use of the smart phone. I have experienced Uber in China, Australia and Europe. All of these experiences have been 100 x more pleasant than sitting in a dirty taxi with a stinking driver that last had a bath and brushed their teeth when the dinosaurs were roaming the earth. I'm tired of paying too much money to an underpaid, under educated middle man. I'd rather have a middle class dad or mum, making a few bucks in their spare time with their new car. I have great conversations, in a clean comfortable car. They don't try and rip me off, like taxi drivers do, because they can't, they have to follow the GPS. I've been ripped off by taxi drivers in Australia, the US, China, Thailand, Germany, Canada, France, the UK, and Hong Kong. I've never had a bad experience with Uber.

Wake up to yourself.:banghead:
 
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