BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Justice Robson said the toll-road builder had failed to provide the court evidence of whether unit holders would be better off if they were forced to pay the instalments due next month.

Its blatantly obvious it isnt in their best interests, so the Justice's decision seems rather obvious, doesnt it!

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think the rebel's bid failed bit was a reference to Bolton's attempt to get Macquarie's new action heard as part of this case instead of as a separate case next week.

 

[Cats]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The letter was posted for interest........do your own research
http//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25217568-36418,00.html

 

[Martin 123]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think the rebel's bid failed bit was a reference to Bolton's attempt to get Macquarie's new action heard as part of this case instead of as a separate case next week.

Exactly ,title is misleading it is in regards of Macquarie

http://www.businessday.com.au/busin...ne-in-briscon-legal-battle-20090325-9ajz.html

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The letter was posted for interest........do your own research
http//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25217568-36418,00.html

Cant get that link happening Cats. Can you precis?

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

All very interesting - glad to see that people aren't taking this lying down.

This product was a disaster waiting to happen and breaks the historical conventions of historical NL mining company ctg shares and the TLSCA ctg shares where instalment payments were optional (as I understand it).

Fine print in a PDS and no signature requirement for an unsophisticated retail investor to take on millions of dollars worth of debt is a scenario that should not happen in the Australian trading/business environment.

The company has taken a head in the sand approach to this disaster-waiting-to-happen by allowing the stock to continue trading rather than suspending it once the price fell below 10c - and has shown little regard or compassion for the plight of the shareholders that fell into this trap.

I've read through a large number of the historical asx announcements by BCS and in my opinion there are a lot of inconsitencies littered through the announcements which would have made it very easy for shareholders to be unaware of the liability attached to these units.

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Cant get that link happening Cats. Can you precis?

Prospector - try this one : http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25217568-36418,00.html

 

[Cats]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

What is the latest date one can sell?

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

What is the latest date one can sell?

Why wait until the last minute, Cats? It appears on the surface that there are a lot more than 19.9% of unwitting retail holders. It also appears that once the 19.9% target is reached, Jim's investors are not offering to buy anymore - at least that's my understanding.

I apologise if it is more complicated than it appears on the surface, but from my perspective it seems curious why this offer is not being snapped up quickly to avoid missing out...

I can imagine there would be a huge fear of going from the frypan into the fire - especially after being caught so horribly the first time.

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Thanks Sails! I thought every entity had to prove themselves before establishing a financial account; and which also applies to share purchases. So how could these dud owners exist? Maybe many holders have already offloaded them off-market to some dubious people?

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hey Jim, you can try looking up those super funds on the Australian Business Register (ABR).

I did a couple of searches on the details you gave. One case gave dozens of possible matches, but another give just three or four possibilities. It might be helpful.

Australian Business Register Advanced Search - remember to filter by self managed super funds. Any other details like state would help narrow down the possibilities.

You can download the details to excel and work with them there, but this might require the ABN:

ABR downloadable tools

I hope this helps.

I notice that today there are currently another 6 sellers and an additional ten million units come on market for sale. I guess the two million units for sale for more than $0.001 belong to people who don't know what is happening.

 

[steve999]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

By memory, I believe BCS has warned that any off market transfers for the purpose of avoiding the debt can be overturned.

But if purchased/sold on market I assume there would be no problem?

If my quick math is correct, it would cost ~78K to buy 20% on market.

I understand it would cost a little bit more but wouldn't it prevent any legal challenges? Cheaper than lawyers I would have thought.

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

But if purchased/sold on market I assume there would be no problem?

If my quick math is correct, it would cost ~78K to buy 20% on market.

I understand it would cost a little bit more but wouldn't it prevent any legal challenges? Cheaper than lawyers I would have thought.

But there are no on-market buyers, that is the problem.

By memory, I believe BCS has warned that any off market transfers for the purpose of avoiding the debt can be overturned.

I dont think BCSCA have any legal right to assert that! What people do with their shares (buy, sell, gift, offmarket transfer) is none of their business. If the ASX was saying this, then possibly different story. If you are not the registered owner when a specific event happens (eg dividend, SPP, etc etc) then the liability is not yours.

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

By memory, I believe BCS has warned that any off market transfers for the purpose of avoiding the debt can be overturned.

I would have thought that in the situation being discussed above it would be deemed an arms length transaction - no relationship or previous association between buyer and seller - so its hard to see how it could be challenged. (but I'm not a lawyer don't take my word blah blah blah).

Also BCS make a lot of statements but they are just a company expressing an opinion, they are not the law makers or the judiciary so anything they say is also challengable and arguably opinion and not necessarily fact.

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

woops prospector beat me to it.

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

...Anyway, on page 9 of the ASX release it states the circumstances where off-market transfers can be voidable. Then in the next paragraph it gives the circumstances under which the transaction will not be regarded as voidable....

This is where I got it from: ASX release
And above is part of the post where I discussed the wording in the document...

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I would have thought that in the situation being discussed above it would be deemed an arms length transaction - no relationship or previous association between buyer and seller - so its hard to see how it could be challenged. (but I'm not a lawyer don't take my word blah blah blah).

Also BCS make a lot of statements but they are just a company expressing an opinion, they are not the law makers or the judiciary so anything they say is also challengable and arguably opinion and not necessarily fact.

Agree, Cuttlefish. But could cause a bit of fear, nevertheless...

 

[steve999]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

But there are no on-market buyers, that is the problem.

Sorry, I was referring to Byrnes etc who are looking to buy shares from people off market. Obviously he is looking for an even cheaper price for the shares but if there was a chance of a legal challenge then it may end up costing more... Obviously he is confident that they won't be able to reverse the transactions.

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

This is where I got it from: ASX release
And above is part of the post where I discussed the wording in the document...

But it is still just their opinion and hasnt been challenged in Court. They can say what they like, it mean it can hold up in court. I dont think it can! They say that it is the investors responsibility if they are on the register to ensure they have paid. They cannot challenge an off market transfer - that would open up pandora's box; and they cannot establish the motivations when selling off market. It is a toothless threat, nothing more. What shareholders need to do is ensure that with these transfers, their name is no longer on the register.

 

[Martin 123]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

"Although the case is near its end, the toll-road company has not given enough evidence of its financial position, according to Justice Ross Robson.

"The unit holders are the owners of this project, but what do they own?" he said yesterday."




http://business.theage.com.au/business/tangible-assets-of-briscon-queried-20090326-9chr.html