BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

What a catch 22. If you are able to make any money from those transaction fees, than they become assets of the company which will go towards meeting the obligation anyway! Otherwise you will have to move the cash out of the business before the liability fall due. As a company director, I think it is illegal to do that knowing that you have a big debt to be met - so definitely check with your accountant, lawyer, QC etc.

The protection of a proprietary limited company can be pierced, if it can be demonstrated to a balance of probabilities, that the company was formed for the sole purpose of limiting or avoiding liability.

So unless you could convince the judge that this was a legitimate profit making scheme, then the director would be personally liable for the debt.

As usual, I'm not a lawyer, so DYOR, but that's my interpretation of corporate law.

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Why not do it AWG?

I personally cant do it cause I got heaps of assets

However, I am VERY curious as to the possibilities

Almost curious enough to ring my accountant and solicitor, both share market pro's and ask some questions.

However, I do have a somewhat of a moral problem, undertaking such an enterprise, whereby I make a profit (fee) ,where there are certain moral issues, and possibly legal ramifications.

Basically, I am in a position where I dont need to.

(Time is an issue, as well)

I believe the advice I would receive from my crew would be not to involve myself.

Mainly risk/reward.

In the past, I have done some tremendously risky things, often against advice, which resulted in both huge profits and losses.

These days I try to be a little steadier

Honestly, the main reason I have championed this approach is to help out the poor b*stards caught up

Having said all this, if someone is prepared to contact me and provide some detail of what advice they have received, I will undertake to contact my advisers and discuss the matter. IN detail, and confidence, no cost.


Please forward contact details if interested, I definitely have ALL the contacts needed to make it happen ( including the b@ms)

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The protection of a proprietary limited company can be pierced, if it can be demonstrated to a balance of probabilities, that the company was formed for the sole purpose of limiting or avoiding liability.

So unless you could convince the judge that this was a legitimate profit making scheme, then the director would be personally liable for the debt.

As usual, I'm not a lawyer, so DYOR, but that's my interpretation of corporate law.

like I said (for hypothetical purposes)

It HAS to be a person unequivocally headed for bankruptcy!!!

they can spend the profits that they withdraw as CASH, in as profligate a manner as they wish.:burn:

Including paying consultant fees, however they wish.

Such an individual, would probably do a very poor job of record keeping.

No cash or other assets would likely be retained.

The money might help THEIR family.

I definitely do not wish or advise anyone to do anything that breaches any regulation of God or man.

I wonder how well David Tweed (not his real name), sleeps at night.

 

[Bushie]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Re the Publicly available Registry. Where can I get onto it?

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think the request is made direct to the company

not the share registry ( Link, in this case)

Easiest thing to do is ring the Company officials or Share registry and ask them!

here is a few links that talk about David Tweeds methods

http://thomasr.org/blog/2004/12/david-tweed-is-c.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/call-for-curb-on-registry-access/2005/08/08/1123353261902.html

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/200610/s1763746.htm

 

[Gunlom]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Been following this thread for a while and just my 2cents...

If the company is going to come after small shareholders for the out standing amounts, which by all appearances they are.

If I was going have to go down this path of potentially being bankrupt or debt collectors chasing me.

Say my total assets are $500k and these shares gave me a exposure of about $1 mil. ( the debt collectors are looking at 50c in the dollar) which is a reasonable return for the debt collectors.

In my view it would be better to get your assets to debt ratio as low as possible to about maybe 5c - 10c in the dollar and make it as hard as possible for the debt collectors. Get some more (plenty of people here would love to off load some)

The bigger the debt the more say and power you have in negotating with them. And potentially make it a total waste of time coming after you.

If you have all your assets at risk, it's better to go down swinging at take the fight up to them....
I would...
But this is just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck to all holders

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Yes Gunlom, I think that was what Mr Garpul Gumnut was on about.

If you look at the Comsec website there are about 105 million shares for sale at 0.001 cents
and another 22 million or so at 0.002
If everyone transfered their shares to someone then they would have a bit of clout.
Perhaps even be able to call a series of board meetings and wind the company up if enough share holders agreed to it
( but then i could be talking complete crock).

 

[drsmith]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The following article in The Australian may be of interest. It's from early December and may have been posted before.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24735838-5012436,00.html

 

[brty]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I have a relative that is virtually bankrupt, yet no one is chasing him because they know he has no assets, nor is likely to gain any in the immediate future. He is over 30 and lives with his mother, and on the dole as almost unemployable.

If he was the sole director, and paid dividends to shareholders in a company (B.U.M)that was formed to profit from market opportunities (dividends paid monthly??) hmmm....

If a company was to take over control of Brissconnect, by accepting money to take BSCSA shares, they could make Brissconnect buy back shares from shareholders, say at a price of $1 for every million shares, or do all sorts of other things (like wind up the company).

just a thought.

brty

 

[Jayan]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Has this been posted?

Trevor Rowe joins Inside Business
Date : 16/11/2008
Reporter: Alan Kohler

ALAN KOHLER, PRESENTER: The cheapest stock on the ASX right now is BrisConnections, which is building Brisbane's $3.4 billion Airport link toll road.
It's one tenth of a cent, the lowest possible price for a listed security. And at that price it's attracting interest. This week, tens of millions changed hands, although you can get a million of them for a thousand bucks.

http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2007/s2420909.htm

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I dont think any changed hands?

Just people falling off the back of the waggon who need to re-list them for sale.

What are you on about?

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Thermal the article Jayan is referring to that the comments came from was written back on the 16th of November 08, when there had still been stock changing hands.

 

[Bushie]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

see
www.qbf.qic.com.au/team/rowe.cfm
He sure does get around, I wonder how he can give 100% to any one of his projects?
Also, as he has his finger in the pie of Brisconnect, & QIC, & ASX, is there any reason why we should not suspect collusion or planning or fixing this in advance? I almost see that smart people would target little/ignorant/uneducated people as grain for the mill to grind up. (seeing as so many others are so fond of analogies I thought this might be pertinent.)

 

[Struzball]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

like I said (for hypothetical purposes)

It HAS to be a person unequivocally headed for bankruptcy!!!

How does a person headed for bankruptcy get a hold of the $100,000+ to buy the shares, even for $0.001 each?

 

[Bushie]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

How does a person headed for bankruptcy get a hold of the $100,000+ to buy the shares, even for $0.001 each?

We don't want to sell him the shares, we are quite willing to GIVE him or anyone else the shares with an off market transfer. Others have suggested that an amount of money could change hands in favour of the recipient, however that would be a one on one negotiation as we don't have a lot of money so that would be difficult for us. Also keep in mind that this is all theory & supposition.

 

[GreatPig]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Perhaps even be able to call a series of board meetings and wind the company up if enough share holders agreed to it

By my understanding, when a company is wound up the unpaid amount on any shares becomes payable to the company, so I don't think winding up the company would release the shareholders from their obligation. And I believe Brisconnections has a lot of debt, so I doubt there'd be any leftovers afterwards to pay back to the shareholders.

GP

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

see
www.qbf.qic.com.au/team/rowe.cfm
He sure does get around, I wonder how he can give 100% to any one of his projects?

It's not at all unusual for directors to be on many Boards and to be chairman of several companies.

Also, as he has his finger in the pie of Brisconnect, & QIC, & ASX, is there any reason why we should not suspect collusion or planning or fixing this in advance?

To what end? What would Mr Rowe have to gain if this were the case?

I almost see that smart people would target little/ignorant/uneducated people as grain for the mill to grind up. (seeing as so many others are so fond of analogies I thought this might be pertinent.)

Again, what would the company, or Trevor Rowe in particular, have to gain by allegedly 'targeting little people'.
Let's remember that the information was out there in the market place so, whilst I'm very sympathetic to your distress, it doesn't seem at all reasonable to me to make such allegations as you have above.

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Its all just a complete F*** up.
I was looking through some of the old anouncements.
The form 603 substantial share holders.
Some are listed as Fully Paid
Some partly paid.
If the company sec cant get it right what hope has a Pommy $500 buck investor???
They cant even decide themselves by the admission of their own paperwork.
I reckon there will be some serious ass kicking over this...

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hello all. Have been offline for a few days but can get access now and other than emails this is the next spot I checked to see if there had been any breakthroughs for you. Sounds like a lot of behind the scenes things happening.

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

How does a person headed for bankruptcy get a hold of the $100,000+ to buy the shares, even for $0.001 each?

Purchaser may possibly pay market rate for shares but made via off-market purchase and transfer.

Funding could be way of fee agreement, between buyer and seller.

You would'nt need $100,000, as that would buy 100,000,000