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Thanks for the heads up Sir Osisofliver but I have a few questions:
1. Don't BrisC risk saving the same problem if they take this route. ie, what if they sell into the market and end up selling to more mums and dads at 10c or below. They'll just have the same problem when the 3rd and final instalment needs to be payed??
2. Has this course of action been taken before with similar situations in the past?
OK, anyone tempted to buy a few of these at these prices ?
I mean it's a huge fiasco and embarrassment for the company. Those who can't pay their outstanding committments will surely forfeit their shares, but not a lot more then that will happen I don't think (may be a bit of company hot air in the interim to scare a few in to meeting committments if at all possible.This is more to keep an image up then anything). But after that, the company will want and need to create some sort of value for those who do pay up. They are going to get the money from the underwriters anyway who would of conducted some sort of due diligence on the project before committing.
I'm tempted to buy a 1000. Surely the company will want to see the value of the first installment go back up at least a bit. It was a fire sale to get out. There must be some value in this project surely. I am looking at getting some work for my own company on the project and from what I can work out, it's business as usual at Brisconnect. they are going to build these roads, and at some point they are going to be worth something.
Any thoughts....?
Sir O, in your opinion would it make more sense for Maqb or another big institution to accept a transfer of all our shares, cleaning up the share registry, turning Brisc into a tightly held stock and ensuring they dont have this same nightmare in 2010.
Bushie, Rocket, Thermal etc. - what steps have been taken so far in relation to this?
Similarly from a legal perspective I would expect the right sort of lawyer/barrister would see some different potential avenues to explore as well.
One thing of interest in that letter you mention bushie (I found it on the asx site) is that the letter mentions a 6 month period they are required to pursue the funds for - maybe by bringing an action to contest the legality of the contract it might be possible to stall any creditors/debt collection process long enough for this period to expire? (I'm not a lawyer of course, these are just ideas, none of them may have merit).
It would also be worthwhile speaking to a bankruptcy lawyer because they may be able to advise of legal means to protect assets. Also when does the liability actually get incurred? It is possible the liability may not actually exist until the record date has passed - in which case it may actually be legal to transfer your assets to a trusted party prior to that date, or transfer the shares prior to that date without repercussions - again I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer - but I'd be pursuing anything and everything were I in the situation.
Also if you can get some shareholders together you might be able to pool funds for a good barrister/lawyer - and you may also possibly be able to get a meeting facilitated between yourselves and BCS and/or MQG to try to work out a compromise thats acceptable etc.
Sir O, thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you can't actually offer advice, but I suspect that the people affected here, especially Bushie, are probably too upset and stressed to easily follow the advice in your last sentence.Hopefully I've stimulated you into thinking about what you might be able to do to lessen your exposure.
Good Luck
Sir O
Bushie, it will indeed have been 'choreographed in advance'. In taking the project to the market every contingency will have been considered, as you would expect.So that we can get back on track again I am attempting to upload a 6 page 'fact sheet' that we received from BCS dated 9th Dec outlining exactly what they intend to do to us & its gruesome path. This is so wrong - it sounds like it has been choriographed well in advance.
Yes, I've also been hoping to hear from some of the affected people what legal advice they have received.Bushie, Rocket, Thermal etc. - what steps have been taken so far in relation to this?
Has anyone engaged or spoken to a lawyer/barrister well versed in corporate/contract law? Also I've seen Rocket mention the ASA - have they started to put together a list of people affected - are they helping to facilitate any action?
What does ASIC say about the whole thing? Also has anyone been in touch with their local federal member (and state member if from QLD)?
It might also be worth trying to engage a PR company or speak to some journalists and see if any are interested in running the story. Based on some of the things I've seen from looking through the announcements I would have thought there would be a variety of angles for a journalist to explore.
I'd be interested to know if there is in fact anything available in a legal sense.Similarly from a legal perspective I would expect the right sort of lawyer/barrister would see some different potential avenues to explore as well.
All good points, Cuttlefish. What does your legal adviser say about all the above Rocket, Thermalmonster, Bushie and anyone else who is involved?One thing of interest in that letter you mention bushie (I found it on the asx site) is that the letter mentions a 6 month period they are required to pursue the funds for - maybe by bringing an action to contest the legality of the contract it might be possible to stall any creditors/debt collection process long enough for this period to expire? (I'm not a lawyer of course, these are just ideas, none of them may have merit).
It would also be worthwhile speaking to a bankruptcy lawyer because they may be able to advise of legal means to protect assets. Also when does the liability actually get incurred? It is possible the liability may not actually exist until the record date has passed - in which case it may actually be legal to transfer your assets to a trusted party prior to that date, or transfer the shares prior to that date without repercussions - again I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer - but I'd be pursuing anything and everything were I in the situation.
For example you don't want to find out after the fact that you should have sent a letter or commenced some type of legal action prior to the record date that could have protected yourself. There may be things from a legal perspective that can be done prior to the record date or the call notice date that can't be pursued after that date.
Also if you can get some shareholders together you might be able to pool funds for a good barrister/lawyer - and you may also possibly be able to get a meeting facilitated between yourselves and BCS and/or MQG to try to work out a compromise thats acceptable etc.
You've probably thought of most of these things and a million more but just in case I thought it doesn't hurt to mention them.
The liability is effectively incurred by the holders of these shares on the record date.
Bushie, Rocket, Thermal etc. - what steps have been taken so far in relation to this?
Has anyone engaged or spoken to a lawyer/barrister well versed in corporate/contract law? Also I've seen Rocket mention the ASA - have they started to put together a list of people affected - are they helping to facilitate any action?
What does ASIC say about the whole thing? Also has anyone been in touch with their local federal member (and state member if from QLD)?
It might also be worth trying to engage a PR company or speak to some journalists and see if any are interested in running the story. Based on some of the things I've seen from looking through the announcements I would have thought there would be a variety of angles for a journalist to explore.
Similarly from a legal perspective I would expect the right sort of lawyer/barrister would see some different potential avenues to explore as well.
One thing of interest in that letter you mention bushie (I found it on the asx site) is that the letter mentions a 6 month period they are required to pursue the funds for - maybe by bringing an action to contest the legality of the contract it might be possible to stall any creditors/debt collection process long enough for this period to expire? (I'm not a lawyer of course, these are just ideas, none of them may have merit).
It would also be worthwhile speaking to a bankruptcy lawyer because they may be able to advise of legal means to protect assets. Also when does the liability actually get incurred? It is possible the liability may not actually exist until the record date has passed - in which case it may actually be legal to transfer your assets to a trusted party prior to that date, or transfer the shares prior to that date without repercussions - again I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer - but I'd be pursuing anything and everything were I in the situation.
For example you don't want to find out after the fact that you should have sent a letter or commenced some type of legal action prior to the record date that could have protected yourself. There may be things from a legal perspective that can be done prior to the record date or the call notice date that can't be pursued after that date.
Also if you can get some shareholders together you might be able to pool funds for a good barrister/lawyer - and you may also possibly be able to get a meeting facilitated between yourselves and BCS and/or MQG to try to work out a compromise thats acceptable etc.
You've probably thought of most of these things and a million more but just in case I thought it doesn't hurt to mention them.
Although it becomes payable on that date and remains with whoever held at the record date, thinking about it more, I suspect from a legal/accounting perspective that rather than the liability being 'created' on the record date, the legal liability exists already and is attached to the security and transferred with it up to that date. It is effectively detached from the security after the record date (and remains with the registered holder of the securities on the record date).
btw lesm, in case you haven't seen my earlier posts - I'm not a holder of these - I've just taken an interest in the situation because it seems pretty harsh for those that did get caught up in it.
I've also been a bit suprised at some of the things that turned up when I read through the BCS announcements.
...I have made contact with my local member for Qld, & Federal Member...
From converstions with Rocket it appears we have a couple of possible avenues.
Without speaking to Rocket first I am not going to publicly disclose this delicate info, without aproval of the others.
I will however PM Julia & Cuttlefish since they have been very helpful and try and keep you informed.
Needless to say ,all those involved ,I believe have been coppied in on these e-mails.
We are taking a very pro active approach to the situation. ( Big thanks to Rocket)
You may or may not be supprised that other share holders have also come forward to join our "Action group"
Yes. You CAN give them away:Sounds interesting only to date we only know of 5 of us in contact, we would need to access the registry somehow to find out who the other 100's are. I am in the (no money) department therefore I can only try to give my shares/units away to any takers no matter how small a parcel off market. As on market I can only move $500 worth which instantly amounts to a $1million dollar debt. However I liked "Absolutely's" suggestion - anyone who wants from 100 to 1000 shares can have them. Free. I am not selling them, therefore I am breaking no law I know of - surely I can give them away?
Sir O, thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you can't actually offer advice, but I suspect that the people affected here, especially Bushie, are probably too upset and stressed to easily follow the advice in your last sentence.
Can you offer them some clues as to anything they may legitimately do at this stage?
Hi Cuttlefish, yes, we are all pursuing different avenues. Rocket 12 is busy sussing out lawyers, I have a complaint lodged with ASIC, we are all in touch with Australian Shareholders Association who is advocating on our behalf to all parties on the other side, I have made contact with my local member for Qld, & Federal Member, have had 2 visits to lawyers, & 1 to my accountant.
Regarding the media, ASA is cautious in this area at present as they are hoping to resolve this mess without going hugely & embarrassingly public. As Trevor Rowe of Brisconnect states, the integrity of the project is important & if we publicly damn them, what hope will we have of fair play? I would much prefer that it be resolved in a quiet & calm manner rather than be a tv target for 'idiot of the month'. As you all know from this thread, until the details get ground about out in the open, many will have a poor view of those caught up in the trap.
I really appreciate the thought that went into your response, thank you for airing all of these directions, any & all suggestions are being explored for legality or plausability. Desparation breeds inventiveness & we need all your heads to do battle with this. Thanks again
While some things in the announcements may be surprising or appear to be, it would depend upon whether they are material to the situation or not.
While it may be a harsh outcome, this itself does not necessarily render the contract unenforceable under common law.
The involved parties really do need proper legal advice on this, as to their legal position and the options available to them.
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