BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

Julia · 21 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

rocket12 said:
So here is the full buy page sequence.

OK, thanks Rocket. I'd just been wondering if there was a Comsec equivalent to the page both Prospector and I came up with on NAB and E-trade respectively.

Given that Comsec don't appear even now to be offering any clear warning on their Buy screen before you commit to the purchase, and the other two brokers do, wouldn't it seem that Comsec clients have a case against the broker?

What do the ASA say about this?

Sunder · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

sails said:
I did also suggest that perhaps the underwriters could make a market to enable these people to sell their shares.

What's the point of going ahead with a project when a potentially large number of investors don't have the millions required?

Sails, do you understand what it means to "make a market" in these conditions? Essentially, you're saying the the underwriters should buy these shares off the people who want to sell, but cannot. In essence, they are forgiving debt. We are back to square one. Why should Macquarie shareholders suffer for the mistakes of someone else?

The project WILL have all the money it requires. The only question is whether 100% of it comes from Macquarie shareholders, or, some of it comes from the people who promised - even if unwittingly to pay for it.

cartman said:
Sunder people here are suffering my friend ----- what is your point!!

so even tho you are probably technically correct Sunder ------

stop preaching holier than thou reasoning and just put yourself in their shoes and leave them alone -- cause the day may come when u do something similar and u may well be looking for some support from someone

Cartman, these people are suffering, but someone has to. If it's not them, it's the underwriter's shareholders. Are you going to be sympathetic to them when their dividend is cut and their share price crashes due to unforeseen circumstances meaning they forgive someone else's debt? Remember, they did not underwrite forgiveness of debt, but the inability to recover debt. As long as the debt can be legally recovered, they have a moral responsibility to try.

If you're on their side, put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer to take on their debt.

Speaking of putting yourself in someone elses shoes, put yourself in the shoes of the people who stand to lose a LOT of money, because someone didn't do their research, and ignored the news stories on the front of Comsec, the prompts we're seeing on eTrade and Comsec, and didn't bother to find out what the CA "Contribution A" code means.

Although I don't hold any MQG, I'm being the devil's advocate for people who have no voice here. Yes, I feel sorry for the people who made genuine mistakes, but this is reality, genuine mistakes often end in death, feel fortunate that in this case it's only going to end in debt. Someone has to pay the piper, and why should it be the people who have made no mistake, over those who have?

Yes, I know I'm spouting an unpopular view, but this argument has been very one sided, and I'm trying to point out the other side.

That's the point and the bottom line. Someone has to pay. Why should it be Macquarie Bank share holders, over BCSCA shareholders?"

Bushie · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
That's the point and the bottom line. Someone has to pay. Why should it be Macquarie Bank share holders, over BCSCA shareholders?"

From where I sit, it is better to lose a paper figure on a share price that has some chance of recovery in years to come vs losing one's home & contents & one's precious possessions. We have already spent 2/3rds of a life times blood sweat & tears to obtain what we have, it isn't much, but its OURS. All of the shareholders from Mac Bank etc you mentioned don't have their entire lives wrapped up in their shares, I think this is a little different.

And another thing, if someone has to pay - make it the ....... who chose to allow these toxic shares to sit there lying in wait for gullable or uninformed retail investors like me. If Mac Bank hadn't dumped millions of shares onto the open market, this would not have happened. Why were they not parcelled out to institutional investors, thats all they are really suited for, as we have all said over & over, $500-00 now buys a $1 million dollar debt!!! Sunder, is your home & assets on the line in any of your investments? I think not.

Sunder · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Bushie said:
From where I sit, it is better to lose a paper figure on a share price that has some chance of recovery in years to come vs losing one's home & contents & one's precious possessions.

This is what it comes down to, and what I said earlier before I was going to exit this thread (before a whole new raft of people joined and new interesting points were brought up)

To the people involved in this, it's very personal. To anyone not involved in this, most can see why others should not be made to pay for their mistakes. I will not convince you that this is just a very very very expensive mistake, and not necessarily the fault of anyone else.

On the other hand, from where a MQG shareholder sits, he cannot see why he should have to pay for your mistake, when his company did everything by the book.

I hope BCS doesn't pursue anyone to bankruptcy. I hope Macquarie doesn't have to fork out 100% of the money. Maybe the Queensland Govt will waive their right to a road. I don't know.

But all I do know, is that someone has to pay, it's either going to be BCSCA holders, MQG holders, or the Queensland tax payer. As I am not a BCSCA holder, a MQG holder, nor a Qld tax payer, I feel somewhat impartial when I say that those who promised the debt are first in line to pay it. Then, the insurance company, Macquarie is second in line to pay it, followed by the tax payer.

If you're going to talk about remedial action, talk about suing the brokers, not about making markets, forgiving debts, or bail outs. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, MQG and BCS have done everything by the book, and they should be able to sleep soundly with a clean conscience. If there is any blame to be laid, and I have my doubts, it's only contributory negligence on the part of the broker, not even full negligence... And as I said, I still have doubts on that bit.

Prospector · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
If you're going to talk about remedial action, talk about suing the brokers, not about making markets, forgiving debts, or bail outs. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, MQG and BCS have done everything by the book, and they should be able to sleep soundly with a clean conscience. If there is any blame to be laid, and I have my doubts, it's only contributory negligence on the part of the broker, not even full negligence... And as I said, I still have doubts on that bit.

I did a search through on other forums on why people bought into this in the first place,I think back in July and the main reason seems to be the excellent returns that were promised. Those returns have been slashed and are now not going to take place until well into next year, and after the second instalment. This is about the time the sp totally tanked. No doubt there is some teeny weeny disclaimer in the PDS about the ability to vary, but really, is that scrupulous of MCQ when the huge returns it offered were broadly publicised for the IPO and which resulted in oversubscription but then dont come through as promised?

Bushie · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
That's the point and the bottom line. Someone has to pay. Why should it be Macquarie Bank share holders, over BCSCA shareholders?"

My apologies to the administrator, I guess we both overstepped the mark with our assumptions. I choose to let it all lie for now.

As a new matter of interest, I just had a call from Slater & Gordon, they have chosen to limit their interest in this matter to "limit the scope of potential action to those with purchases made as a result of a negligent 3rd party." So we who purchased online need to keep searching for a saviour.

Julia · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I've asked this before and as far as I can see no one has answered:

what is the advice of the ASA to BCS shareholders?

rocket12 · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Julia said:
I've asked this before and as far as I can see no one has answered:

what is the advice of the ASA to BCS shareholders?

To get legal advice etc, and to not fall for too good to be true advice. They are doing a great job with holding meetings with Trevor Rowe, and asic etc, continually trying to look for another solution.

Prospector · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Bushie said:
As a new matter of interest, I just had a call from Slater & Gordon, they have chosen to limit their interest in this matter to "limit the scope of potential action to those with purchases made as a result of a negligent 3rd party." So we who purchased online need to keep searching for a saviour.

But isnt Commsec a negligent 3rd party in not warning you prior to purchase, where NAB and E*Trade did?

Macquack · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Prospector said:
I did a search through on other forums on why people bought into this in the first place,I think back in July and the main reason seems to be the excellent returns that were promised. Those returns have been slashed and are now not going to take place until well into next year, and after the second instalment. This is about the time the sp totally tanked. No doubt there is some teeny weeny disclaimer in the PDS about the ability to vary, but really, is that scrupulous of MCQ when the huge returns it offered were broadly publicised for the IPO and which resulted in oversubscription but then dont come through as promised?

Good point Prospector.

Macquarie management are a bunch of dirty capitalist pigs who look after themselves first and their shareholders last.

Considering that the "credit crisis" was already in full swing, what has actually happened to produce the current situation?

I believe it was Macquarie Group in one of its many guises that manipulated this whole catastrophy.

rocket12 · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Someone else just bought another $500 worth today giving them a 1million dollar dept...Whilst I would love someone to come along and buy all of our shares, it's not good that people are still falling for this and I don't want my shares to be bought by someone else being misled into buying them.

Cartman · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
Cartman, these people are suffering, but someone has to. If it's not them, it's the underwriter's shareholders. Are you going to be sympathetic to them when their dividend is cut and their share price crashes due to unforeseen circumstances meaning they forgive someone else's debt? "[/b]

mmmmm i may be confused but are u asking me to feel sorry for Macbank S/H's over Briscons S/H because their divi may drop because MacB has to foot the bill for the failed float ?? ie M/B share price may drop a bit --- is that what you are actually saying??

Garpal Gumnut · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

rocket12 said:
Someone else just bought another $500 worth today giving them a 1million dollar dept...Whilst I would love someone to come along and buy all of our shares, it's not good that people are still falling for this and I don't want my shares to be bought by someone else being misled into buying them.

With all the publicity, Rocket, even I would reckon that is crook.

There are many idiots out there, but some I would agree, need to be saved from themselves.

Perhaps it was Macquarie buying, I jest.

Its crook if simple fools are buying this dog atm.

gg

rocket12 · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
Speaking of putting yourself in someone elses shoes, put yourself in the shoes of the people who stand to lose a LOT of money, because someone didn't do their research, and ignored the news stories on the front of Comsec, the prompts we're seeing on eTrade and Comsec, and didn't bother to find out what the CA "Contribution A" code means.

That's the point and the bottom line. Someone has to pay. Why should it be Macquarie Bank share holders, over BCSCA shareholders?"

I have checked those five or so news stories every day since I bought these shares and it has never been there. You say it was there a while back and has been rotated off, then it must have been a looooong while ago (you wouldn't think this odd that they have removed it??). So you really believe that because we didn't do our research and look for your "majic link" that isn't there, and didn't take any notice of the "$1.00pd" on the chart page of commsec that we are at fault.

Do you understand that millions of retail investors wouldn't even think that just because one share has 3 codes and another has 5 that there is something up, to us they are just codes for that share. Do you understand that if those same investors were told that there was $1.00 paid $2.00 unpaid as clearly stated on the E-trade buy page then yes they definately would have investigated.

I really am puzzled that you think this is good disclosure.

If you sold a car to me and it turns out to be a bomb, that's my problem. Buyer beware. But from what you are telling me you think it would be fine for you to sell me that same car, and then after my purchase you inform me that there will be 2 further payments of 2 million dollars. Unbenowns to me you had that clearly stated in the notice in your back pocket, and there is also a notice inside the car under the carpet in the front seat of the car. There was also an article about it in a car magazine a few weeks back.

I have a feeling you would think this is good practice.

rocket12 · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Garpal Gumnut said:
With all the publicity, Rocket, even I would reckon that is crook.

There are many idiots out there, but some I would agree, need to be saved from themselves.

Perhaps it was Macquarie buying, I jest.

Its crook if simple fools are buying this dog atm.

gg

Due to the publicity there has been very few sales now, but some people dont read the news. And it will keep happening.

The ASX etc all know that the market is open to everybody and anybody, and as someone else said, Australians love a punt and will just look at a share like this and just think stuff it i'll have a crack, not caring if they lose the money, and certainly not thinking for one second that they would have to go searching for hours for info that should be right there in front of there face $1.00 paid $2.00 unpaid.

Garpal Gumnut · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

rocket12 said:
Due to the publicity there has been very few sales now, but some people dont read the news. And it will keep happening.

The ASX etc all know that the market is open to everybody and anybody, and as someone else said, Australians love a punt and will just look at a share like this and just think stuff it i'll have a crack, not caring if they lose the money, and certainly not thinking for one second that they would have to go searching for hours for info that should be right there in front of there face $1.00 paid $2.00 unpaid.

Agree totally mate, something needs to be done . The ASX and ASIC are not the best of regulators.

Keep the pressure up mate.

At least we've got asf.

Contact ASA as well, they are proactive in protecting investors, naming and shaming.

Australian Shareholders Association. google it.

gg

Cartman · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Cartman said:
mmmmm i may be confused but are u asking me to feel sorry for Macbank S/H's over Briscons S/H because their divi may drop because MacB has to foot the bill for the failed float ?? ie M/B share price may drop a bit --- is that what you are actually saying??

ok im an impatient sob --- i cant wait for your reply SUNDER --- if the above b true; well actually i do feel sorry for anyone investing with M/B --- overpaid underperforming pack of directors if ever there was any ----- they take ginormous amounts of S/H's money every year and buy holiday houses from here to eternity while pretending to be efficient ----- crooks in suits would be more appropriate -- yep i definitely feel sorry for M/B S/H's

as for putting my money where my mouth is ---- ok im in ------ if the unfortunate Briscon S/H's can find another million suckers like me i'll buy 250 shares off the registry ----- thats gona cost me 500 bucks correct ------ i dont have a lot of cash but i can spare 500 bucks for my fellow man

are you in Sunder? ----- and i am serious!!

Cobber · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Julia said:
I was surprised to read this so have just done a Buy order (without of course taking the last step) and there wasn't any indication that the usual online order wasn't OK.
Where did you get the info that you could only place phone order?

Btw, there's an article in today's Courier Mail (Brisbane) that the Brisconnections work is going ahead.

I could buy online like normal, but as soon as I went to sell it wouldn't work so I rang the help desk who said it was a special order trade and the order could only be filled by manual order. That stated that numerous people had issues with what has occurred and to ring Mac bank

Cobber · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Has anyone heard of this Ombudsman thing. I was talking to a friend about what is going on and his broker suggested going to the Ombudman - sorry bit naive.

rocket12 · 22 December 2008

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Cartman said:
ok im an impatient sob --- i cant wait for your reply SUNDER --- if the above b true; well actually i do feel sorry for anyone investing with M/B --- overpaid underperforming pack of directors if ever there was any ----- they take ginormous amounts of S/H's money every year and buy holiday houses from here to eternity while pretending to be efficient ----- crooks in suits would be more appropriate -- yep i definitely feel sorry for M/B S/H's

as for putting my money where my mouth is ---- ok im in ------ if the unfortunate Briscon S/H's can find another million suckers like me i'll buy 250 shares off the registry ----- thats gona cost me 500 bucks correct ------ i dont have a lot of cash but i can spare 500 bucks for my fellow man

are you in Sunder? ----- and i am serious!!

Sorry for jacking your post i'm sure Sunder will reply as well. Speeking for myself I wouldn't want anyone else to bail us out other than the QLD government or the underwriters.

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