BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[Bushie]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hey all of you seafood dudes, Cuttlefish, Roe & Prawn 86, thank you for your generous & kind suggestions, even though not practical, I felt your kindness.
I have supposedly been quoted today in the Sunday Telegraph, I was contacted last week by a reporter after being referred by Stuart from ASA. I hope when I get to look at a copy that it was an okay article as I don't have much faith in the media getting things accurate. (They usually don't). I am still stuck in the WRONGNESS of how a debt can be purchased without one's knowledge or consent. I feel it was a dirty underhanded trick played out intentionally to catch the unwary as a means to get their hands on extra money and/or assets from 'little people' who don't mean anything to the high flyers. My emotions are swinging constantly from fear to tears to anger & back again. This can't be healthy.

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hey Julia, you were braver than me - I didnt trust my touchpad not to ping off a trade.

No risk as long as I didn't type in my password.
Attached is screenshot which clearly outlines what is still to pay.
I don't know whether that was what appeared before all the fuss happened.

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I was surprised to read this so have just done a Buy order (without of course taking the last step) and there wasn't any indication that the usual online order wasn't OK.
Where did you get the info that you could only place phone order?

Btw, there's an article in today's Courier Mail (Brisbane) that the Brisconnections work is going ahead.

Hey all of you seafood dudes, Cuttlefish, Roe & Prawn 86, thank you for your generous & kind suggestions, even though not practical, I felt your kindness.
I have supposedly been quoted today in the Sunday Telegraph, I was contacted last week by a reporter after being referred by Stuart from ASA. I hope when I get to look at a copy that it was an okay article as I don't have much faith in the media getting things accurate. (They usually don't). I am still stuck in the WRONGNESS of how a debt can be purchased without one's knowledge or consent. I feel it was a dirty underhanded trick played out intentionally to catch the unwary as a means to get their hands on extra money and/or assets from 'little people' who don't mean anything to the high flyers. My emotions are swinging constantly from fear to tears to anger & back again. This can't be healthy.

Did anyone else find as suggested by Cobber above that the shares could not be bought online? Cobber - reply?

Did any of you buy via E-trade, in which case are you saying the words in capital letters at the top of the confirmation order in my screenshot above were not there when you bought?

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

No risk as long as I didn't type in my password.
Attached is screenshot which clearly outlines what is still to pay.
I don't know whether that was what appeared before all the fuss happened.

That's more like it, it really still should have the total cost but the $2 unpaid should send most people scurrying...

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Did anyone else find as suggested by Cobber above that the shares could not be bought online? Cobber - reply?

Did any of you buy via E-trade, in which case are you saying the words in capital letters at the top of the confirmation order in my screenshot above were not there when you bought?

It's an interesting one, cause I do remember in the 7.30 report that etrade was one of the ones mentioned that people used. I cant imagine that they would add in that bold text now as it is admitting fault.

 

[profit off it]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The link shows the full transcript of the 7.30 Report story on Brisconnections shown in November.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2425392.htm

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

The link shows the full transcript of the 7.30 Report story on Brisconnections shown in November.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2425392.htm

It says the ANZ e-trade site. I assume thats not the same as e-trade?

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

OK, so I got brave after Julia's lead. I am with NAB. There is a little header at the top of the confirm order, but I am not too sure I would actually see it if I had already gone that far.

I understand that ANZ e-trade and e-trade are the same thing.

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

OK, so I got brave after Julia's lead. I am with NAB. There is a little header at the top of the confirm order, but I am not too sure I would actually see it if I had already gone that far.

I understand that ANZ e-trade and e-trade are the same thing.

Wow you were brave typing in 50000 shares... your heart must have been pounding. Anyone use westpacs online broker, and what other ones are there??

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Wow you were brave typing in 50000 shares... your heart must have been pounding. Anyone use westpacs online broker, and what other ones are there??

I typed in $500 worth which is the minimum trade. And yeah, I keep logging in to make sure there are no orders. Of course, as Julia says, if you dont type in the trading code there is no order, but even so......

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Clear Conscience you say Sunder? I wonder how he sleeps at night. He knows that the sh.. has hit the fan

That's kind of like feeling guilty because someone drove carelessly and killed themselves driving into your house, isn't it? As long as he does everything by the book, what does he have to feel guilty about?

And you've still missed my point. Can you suggest what he can do, which is morally right by all other stakeholders, which would benefit those who have made the mistake?

Edit: Or maybe to be a bit more fair, feeling guilty because the council didn't put crash barriers around a sharp corner, and your house just happened to be sitting on that corner. It's not entirely the buyer's fault, but it's certainly NONE of the business or underwriters fault, except insofar as they "built a house on the corner".

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

That's kind of like feeling guilty because someone drove carelessly and killed themselves driving into your house, isn't it? As long as he does everything by the book, what does he have to feel guilty about?

And you've still missed my point. Can you suggest what he can do, which is morally right by all other stakeholders, which would benefit those who have made the mistake?

How is it a mistake to be misled into buying something. The market wasn't fully informed that this is a contributing share, that is a mistake.

I was being flamed for buying these shares in a thread on another forum, but once they saw the screencaps etc they realized this is wrong. I feel silly even replying to your posts.

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

How is it a mistake to be misled into buying something. The market wasn't fully informed that this is a contributing share, that is a mistake.

BCSCA I feel silly that I even have to say that.

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Think outside your own shoes for a moment and ask what options he has?

1. He doesn't pursue the debt. Macquarie is then excused from their liabilities, and the government sues Brisconnections because no road was built. Likely shareholders who were intending to come good on their portion will also sue him for wiping out their company.

2. He only selectively pursues the debt for people likely to have more money than the costs it to recover it. It only costs a couple hundred dollars to send a debt collector, and I was told around $10k to take it "to the end". (All the way through the courts) Do you seriously think most people who trade shares have less than $10,001 of recoverable assets? If Macquarie can assert that "all avenues" were not exhausted in attempting to recover the money, they refuse to pay out that part of the claim, and we have a smaller version of scenario 1.

3. He does everything by the book, recovers money from those who have it, damages the credit rating of those that don't (possibly to the point of requiring bankruptcy protection), and Macquarie pays the rest. His company goes through smooth sailing, he gets his multi-million dollar bonuses for getting the road get built on time, and he can, in clear conscience say that it's not his fault that people made mistakes on his company's issues.

This is ugly. Very ugly. But if you were him, which would you take?

Sunder, perhaps they could consider making a market to buy at one tenth of a cent to allow those people who have been caught to sell. Or perhaps an off market transfer whereby the original investment is lost, but the liability is removed. If the liabilities were clearly known up front, Macquarie & Bris connections would never have had these illiquid investors in the first place.

If we compare it to something well known like TLSCA, there were always buyers, so the option to sell out before the next instalment was due made it safe if you didn't want to pay the next amount.

IMHO, the real problem here is that there are no longer any buyers. I believe the decent thing would be for the underwriters to make such a market and could effectively solve this issue.

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I'm quite confused about this situation.

Various posters on this forum have said they did not know of the further $2 obligation when buying the shares.

This is an extract from the transcript of the 7.30 Report item:

RAMESH VELOUGONDAIAH: I was really shocked. I didn't expect it to pay another $2, and I thought it's like a normal share and when I'm buying in CommSec, there is no information that I need to pay another $2.

Yet, screenshots posted by Prospector of Comsec and myself of E-trade show this payment obligation is clearly stated.

So, Rocket, Bushie and everyone else who is in this situation, are you saying you bought the shares somewhere else, if so, where ?

Or for anyone who used E-trade or Comsec, are you saying the detail on the screenshots was not there at the time you bought/

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder, perhaps they could consider making a market to buy at one tenth of a cent to allow those people who have been caught to sell.

There's a problem with that theory. Everyone who seems "for" action to take place assumes that there's a victimless way out.

If BCS becomes the purchaser of these funds,

1. They are essentially relieving these people of their debts

2. The underwriters are then under no obligation to underwrite the missing dollars.

So, BCS goes under and legitimate holders have their value wiped out - they would have no reason to pay the addition $2.

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Yet, screenshots posted by Prospector of Comsec and myself of E-trade show this payment obligation is clearly stated.

So, Rocket, Bushie and everyone else who is in this situation, are you saying you bought the shares somewhere else, if so, where ?

Or for anyone who used E-trade or Comsec, are you saying the detail on the screenshots was not there at the time you bought/

Rocket's screenshot clearly show "$1 PD" which I understand to mean "$1 Paid". There's no mention of the unpaid component, but that'd be enough to make most people stop and wonder... Since normal shares don't say this, what does it mean?".

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I'm quite confused about this situation.

Various posters on this forum have said they did not know of the further $2 obligation when buying the shares.

This is an extract from the transcript of the 7.30 Report item:


Yet, screenshots posted by Prospector of Comsec and myself of E-trade show this payment obligation is clearly stated.

So, Rocket, Bushie and everyone else who is in this situation, are you saying you bought the shares somewhere else, if so, where ?

Or for anyone who used E-trade or Comsec, are you saying the detail on the screenshots was not there at the time you bought/

Nowhere on the commsec main research pages does it mention that there is a further $2 to pay. The only thing remotely mentioning it is on the chart page where it says $1.00 pd. This isn't good enough If it said $1.00 paid $2.00 unpaid then I would have twigged.

The screencaps of etrade (posted by you), and NAB (posted by prospector) mention this clearly and is good, but again Commsec gave nothing. There are plenty of screencaps on page 2 of this thread...

 

[rocket12]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Rocket's screenshot clearly show "$1 PD" which I understand to mean "$1 Paid". There's no mention of the unpaid component, but that'd be enough to make most people stop and wonder... Since normal shares don't say this, what does it mean?".

That was on one of the many research pages and was the one and only slight hint, why in gods name wouldn't they print $1.00 paid, $2,00 unpaid instaid of $1.00 pd. Don't you think it would be better to do as NAB and E-trade did and use bold print on the buy page, not the chart page???

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Why in gods name does it take until you actually hit the buy button for you to only then be told in plain english these are contributing shares??

Further to my previous post, Rocket are you saying that the screen Prospector posted is not the same as that which you saw?
Clearly, Prospector did not "hit the buy button" yet there is a clear detail about the further payments on that screen.

So, either Comsec have changed their website since you purchased or not?

Another question: did you have a look at the chart which showed the descent from $1 right down to the price at which you decided it was a good buy?