Barack Obama!

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Why not?

Everything else is American.

yes and no - its full of contradictions
Howard followed USA blindly, yet was a monachist.
probably just for pragmatic reasons, I doubt he was a Queen's man in the same sense that Menzies was - Menzies would regularly sing the Queen's praises "I did but see her passing by, and I shall love her till I die" sort of thing.

Labour were certainly heading us towards a Republic - started by Gough who was an avowed republican - and was totally for independent Australian "spirit". And until Gough we didn't even have an Australian dictionary for instance. And with him big investiment in all things Aus, the Arts, etc - as well as pulling the troops out of Vietnam.

Back to the Libs, had Costello been leader at the time of the Referendum, we could well be a republic by now as well (my guess). - just another legacy of Johnny Howard's : - And now we have a chance with Malcolm Turnball knocking on the door (who knows where Nelson stands on this - or on anything for that matter)?

But to my recollection, no-one has ever suggested anything like the US primaries etc to model it on. I'd say most Aussies would cringe at the thought of the various states of Aus carrying on like they do in USA for months and months. At least with only 8 states/terrories, we'd be over and done with - probably one bit "Super-Saturday". (we always have elections on Saturday - gives you something to do on your day off - on your way to the races or the pub or whatever).

Maybe delegation to Parliament to come up with a shortlist - and then another vote. etcetc. - by either the people or a select committee - If the powers of such a President are no more than the current GovGen, then no need to get too carried away sheesh. I mean the GG (even under a new title El Presidente) would still not be capable of telling us we are at war - without partliamentary approval - as Bush can do to the US public. And continuing at war " I don't give a flying f*** what the polls say about Iraq, I'm the president and what I say goes" etc.

Come to think of it I'd prefer even a re-incarnated Menzies to Bush

(I'm sure others who have studied politics could offer more comment). But I'm doubting it will look much like the US system (just imo) - espeially as the President will probably be just a figurehead

PS maye we can copy the East Timorese consitution lol. At least with Zanana Gusmao and Jose Ramos Horta they have some true statesmen to emulate

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

PS You'd think NZ would have gone republic by now wouldn't you?

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Obama continues to lead by saying 'we'... compared to Hillary's 'I'. Unity versus ego. He has been inspiring and leading the masses from the ground up whilst Hillary stands on her pedestal always focused on inspiring voters to make history by helping her become the first female president (again in Tuesday's debate in Cleveland) rather than giving the illusion of leading them. Her personal attacks on him preclude any consideration as a running mate IMO.

It seems that Texas is behind him, for next Wednesday our time, judging by his rally videos.

State Rep. Senfronia Thompson of Houston defected from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign and joined a growing list of superdelegates to endorse Obama.
Her defection was the second loss of the day for Clinton. Civil rights leader and Atlanta congressman John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Atlanta, is the most prominent black leader to defect from Clinton's campaign in the face of recent near-unanimous black support for Obama.

"This is our time and if you will stand with me and you will hope for me then we will not just win Texas, we will win the nomination, we will win the general election and you and I together, we will change this country and we will change the world," Obama said.

"I am confident in my ability to lead this country in a new direction," Obama said. "But I have to tell you, Texas State, I can't do it by myself."

Will Dodd be Barack's running mate? He has the personal integrity of Obama.

Two days ago at a press conference in Cleveland, Ohio, Senator Christopher Dodd endorsed Barack Obama for president."The question has always been the same: "Yes, but is he ready?" He has been poked and prodded, analyzed and criticized, called too green, too trusting, too lofty. And for all of that, he's already won half of our nation's states and primaries and caucuses and the votes of more than 10 million Americans, showing judgment, grace and poise in the process.

"Over the past few years I've been watching, on the Foreign Relations Committee, on the Labor Committee in which we served, and as a fellow candidate for the presidency of the United States. I'm proud to be the first 2008 presidential candidate to endorse Barack Obama. He is ready to be President.

Obama replied:"But as passionate as Chris Dodd is about the causes he champions, he also has that rare ability to disagree without being disagreeable. He is respected on both sides of the aisle for his authenticity, reason, and civility. And that is how, time and again, he's been able to bring Democrats and Republicans together to make a real difference in the lives of the American people.

"He conducted his campaign for President with that same character. He resisted the cheap and easy shots, and elevated the debate with important ideas about how to address the great challenges we face. He and I share a deep commitment to take our country in a new direction, and I am grateful for his endorsement."

Two more superdelegates have endorsed Barack Obama. Shadow United States Senators Paul Strauss and Michael D. Brown endorsed Obama, citing his longstanding commitment to the rights of DC residents and his ability to unite Americans to bring change.

Ohio seems to be backing Obama too! Texas and Ohio are the determinants. If he wins them it's a done deal IMO.

A channel 10 spokesperson told me they will be airing the Oprah interview I saw in Canada Dec 2006... in about four weeks' time. That interview showed a man who was just what this world so desperately needed and he has grown so much since then.
My own adult children are now asking me what he stands for! I've directed them to his site to see what he stands for:

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

This gives you his stand on 20 issues: (you have an intro for each then can click to read the rest on each issue)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Barack 2008!

Yet more political propaganda.

No-one has answered as to why Australians should actually care about this

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

But to my recollection, no-one has ever suggested anything like the US primaries etc to model it on. I'd say most Aussies would cringe at the thought of the various states of Aus carrying on like they do in USA for months and months. At least with only 8 states/territories, we'd be over and done with - probably one bit "Super-Saturday". (we always have elections on Saturday - gives you something to do on your day off - on your way to the races or the pub or whatever).

At least they get to see how the candidates act under pressure. They look for a tough leader who can run the distance. The difference is, of course, that this time they do not turn off their TV because the abuse is too depressing. They listen and are increasingly inspired to get out the vote. What a stark contrast to their last election. And yes... put themselves out on a work day.

Our parties choose their leader and we vote for our preference lock stock and barrel.
Then when one loses we find they didn't want that leader after all.

How many would have liked to have been able to vote for the PM? How many would have voted coalition but not for the leader?

We have the same abusive campaigns that are depressing and show the dark side of human nature and make us cringe when the next election looms.

Maybe they could take a leaf out of Obama's book where he does not make personal attacks but attacks issues.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Yet more political propaganda.

No-one has answered as to why Australians should actually care about this

prawn, maybe think back to Gore vs Bush - could have gone either way right?
Had Gore won, we'd be a greener planet.
And it's unlikely we'd be in the mess we are in in Iraq.

And that goes for Aussie as well as USA, since we unthinkingly follow the US anywhere it seems, no matter how hairbrained they get.

Now you can argue against those comments, by all means - but, in doing so, I would have thought that you would have to concede a passing interest in US politics

chance to observe them under pressure

doris,
I'm obviously thinking ahead to the day we become a republic. I mean the “leader” will (almost certainly / probably ) remain the PM. yes? I personally don’t have a problem with the party electing the leader. Sometimes I wish it was even less “presidential” than it already is.

To give the new President a role significantly more powerful than the current GG would be too big a step to take or propose imo. No referendum put to the Aussie people would approve it surely.

In summary , what works for US won’t necessarily work here.
But I’m sure the converse also holds true - and "hollywood theatre" seems to be the way they like it over there

PS I agree with you that it's interesting btw. - for heaps of reasons lol. I'm also pleased I wake up each day in Aus

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Yet more political propaganda.

No-one has answered as to why Australians should actually care about this

Purely for soap opera appeal. There is a hero and a villain and this first stage is casting for the main characters for stage two.

Our genetic history has evolved from spectating (one would hope!) as the Christians fought the lions-- to the histrionics of power in the world's most powerful nation. Two previous soapies starred a villain who slew his opponent because the audience didn't care to even watch. A hawkish and inept leader, around whom is a hawkish administration. Issues like social justice, environmental concerns, alternative energy development, global peace, education, poverty, employment... failed to reach the stage.

If a hero enabled the US to develop peaceful, functional internal affairs where the populous is focused on being educated, earning a living, enjoying a healthy happy family life in a tolerant multi-cultural scenario, actually attempting to reduce global warming, watching sporting heroes combat each other, there may not be an attitude that a foreign war is necessary to con people into keeping a belligerent in power. Did you ever see the John Candy movie, 'Canadian Bacon'? Brilliant satire.

Australians died in the twin towers and in two Bali blasts because of the animosity felt towards the US bully who was elected by a minority because the masses were disillusioned and disinterested. We were made to feel unsafe in our own country because of our vulnerability due to our pragmatic support for them. It caused suspicion and animosity towards resident ethnics in this country who did not deserve this. The world will be safer if the most powerful nation is led by someone who does not think in terms of 'the mighty us' and 'them'; who props up the factions that paid to have him in his role. The US minded its own business before WWII. Now the in-house villain thinks its needs have priority over other countries and their assets.

Do you not realize the effects of the US economy taking a dive has a flow on effect here? Der... How much have Aussie companies lost because their economy is mis-managed? Der...

The sub-prime traunches were set up because the US government does not have transparency and openness of their financial reporting... this will change! The greedy who refinanced their mortgages for holidays and disposables, thinking the interest rates would remain static... this global economy happens to still be led by the USD and the villain's fiscal incompetencies.

A close friend's daughter gave birth to her first child a week before her husband was shipped off to Iraq a few months ago. Bush's ineptitude!

The US owes trillions to China for financing the Iraqi war. What will this world be like when China is the most powerful nation? The US economy is in a downward spiral partly due to jobs out-sourced to India and China. Too much of their GDP is being siphoned into unsustainable, unproductive areas.

On a humanitarian level, the poverty amongst all ethnic groups in many states has millions not living the American dream. Subsistence is a nightmare for them. And this is the forthcoming fate here. If the parent is happy the children will be treated well and they too will be happy. And thus too will be their neighbours.

Obama has the persona to get people to the table so that 'ready, fire, aim!' is not their internal nor foreign policy MO.

 

[arminius]

Re: Barack 2008!

prawn, it truly is a v impoortant election for you. its even more crucial for your children, if and when you have them.
the world needs to be rid of the neo right, and the us needs to be seen disguarding it. think about this. obamas opponents have pilloried him because he is willing to 'communicate with his enemies'. can u imagine a society that doesnt do this? crazy stuff.
the o man will win though.
hillary wont last another week.
mcain is detested by half of his own party.

 

[arminius]

Re: Barack 2008!

disguard= discard.
its early. havent had my cuppa.
the major powers may all be governed by the left soon. the pendulum of human reason has swung back to its rightful place.

 

[Whiskers]

Re: Barack 2008!

No-one has answered as to why Australians should actually care about this

Probably the main reason I have a little interest is I'd like to see a US president doing more about his/her own economy and being less of an international policeman.

Surely whoever the next president is out of the two or three left in the running, things can only get better from here can't it?

 

[wayneL]

Re: Barack 2008!

Yet more political propaganda.

No-one has answered as to why Australians should actually care about this

I wonder if there is an agenda in the blanket coverage of US politics.

Russian and Chinese politics have every bit as much impact (potential and actual) on we minor anglo-saxon countries as the US.

Why don't we get as much coverage of these other major powers? Because we don't give a #$%&. Yet we have all this American tosh served up to us every 15 minutes! WTF?

I realize it's probably conspiracy theorism, but perhaps it's all designed to get the rest of the west to follow the US by becoming emotionally involved in their internal affairs.

Cynically yours...

 

[happytown]

Re: Barack 2008!

...

the major powers may all be governed by the left soon. the pendulum of human reason has swung back to its rightful place.

[artlessly part-censored my own leanings], make no mistake, not without one hell of a fight, the beast does not give up its meal when as still yet unsatiated

for as previously spaketh

government is but the shadow cast by big business over society

some may say anarcho-syndicalism everybody

it interests me that, in the "developed world", the west, we prefer to be ruled by right/centrist-right wing overlords, whilst some in the "less-developed" or "under-developed" world prefer rule by leftist overlords

what is the difference really

is it a case of propaganda is to a democracy what a bludgeon is to a totlitarian state (internally)

is it just shades of sophistication, or 'development'

who is to become the figurehead (unkindly?) referred to as uncle scam is important to some, not to others

'tis maybe as the noamster said, every few years we get to say we want you to be our leader or no we want you to be our leader

is it just shades of sophistication

if it is, this post is not

cheers

...

Why don't we get as much coverage of these other major powers? Because we don't give a #$%&. Yet we have all this American tosh served up to us every 15 minutes! WTF?

...

Cynically yours...

gleefully received in kind

have you ever noticed at the end of half-hour news 'shows' the last thing listed (in tiny type) is affiliations (station-wise)

the politics of the world can be summed up thusly

affiliations

indeed, could all humanity

vive la bagatelle

cheers

 

[noirua]

Re: Barack 2008!

The Barrack Obama campaign raised over $50 million in February roughly in line with expectations.
Hillary Clinton raised over $35 million in February that shows her campaign team is far from throwing in the towel.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Russian and Chinese politics have every bit as much impact (potential and actual) on we minor anglo-saxon countries as the US.

Why don't we get as much coverage of these other major powers? Because we don't give a #$%&. Yet we have all this American tosh served up to us every 15 minutes! WTF?

I realize it's probably conspiracy theorism, but perhaps it's all designed to get the rest of the west to follow the US by becoming emotionally involved in their internal affairs.

Cynically yours...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/01/2177013.htm?section=justin

Putin urges Russians to vote
Posted 8 hours 2 minutes ago

With the campaign in Russia's presidential election in its last day President Vladimir Putin has been on television reminding Russians to vote.

President Putin urged people to go to the polls telling them their opinions were important and that they should vote for Russia's future.

He did not mention any candidate by name but many will see Mr Putins address as an implicit plea to cast a ballot for his favourite candidate Dimitri Medvedev.

In case the personal request of a popular President is not enough, Muscovites are getting plenty of reminders by mobile phone text message and even on the back of metro tickets

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/08/2157436.htm

Putin, Medvedev courting Russia's green vote

I notice the chances of it being a fair election are a joke. The chief opposition chance (chess player, name escapes me) was banned from the election. Heard him yesterday saying " You canot use the terms 'election' or 'free choice' etcetc - in the context of this fiasco" (paraphrased).

Observers boycotting it also.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/08/2157318.htm

OSCE boycotts Russian presidential vote
Posted Fri Feb 8, 2008 0:29am AEDT

The Organisation for Security and Cooperation (OSCE) in Europe on Thursday cancelled its observer missions to Russia's March 2 presidential election because of restrictions imposed by Moscow.

The OSCE election watchdog and its parliamentary assembly both said they would boycott the vote, which President Vladimir Putin's designated successor Dmitry Medvedev is virtually guaranteed to win amid opposition claims that it has been rigged.

The Russian Foreign Ministry called the OSCE move "unacceptable" but the European Union also expressed regret at the "restrictions".

"We made every effort in good faith to deploy our mission, even under the conditions imposed by the Russian authorities," said Christian Strohal, head of the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR), the OSCE elections division.

"We have a responsibility to all 56 participating states to fulfil our mandate, and the Russian Federation has created limitations that are not conducive to undertaking election observation in accordance with it," he said in a statement.

Moscow and the ODIHR - which also stayed away from Russia's legislative election in December because of restrictions - had been tussling for weeks over the latest monitoring mission.

"We believe the actions of the ODIHR are unacceptable," foreign ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said in response to the boycott announcement.

The parliamentary assembly of the 56-nation OSCE also said it would not send a delegation to Russia.

Summary. Not much reason to expect things to change in Russia for a while. But USA at least feigns democracy once every 4 years.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Barack 2008!

Alright,

next question.

Aside from major affairs which "affect" a majority of the world, such as war on terror etc,

How will the president of America effect my (or any other Australians)everyday life?

Also we cant vote anyway so who gives a toss, as Wayne has pointed out before.

And as i have said before, the president is just a puppet for those not in the public eye. Some here have pointed out that he has the power to do certain things (start wars etc), but surely you do not believe that ultimately it is his/her decision.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Alright,

next question.

Aside from major affairs which "affect" a majority of the world, such as war on terror etc,

How will the president of America effect my (or any other Australians)everyday life?

Also we cant vote anyway so who gives a toss, as Wayne has pointed out before.

And as i have said before, the president is just a puppet for those not in the public eye. Some here have pointed out that he has the power to do certain things (start wars etc), but surely you do not believe that ultimately it is his/her decision.

ok mate
lock the shutters
raise the drawbidge
Aussies only interested in Aus from now on
happy now?

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Barack 2008!

ok mate
lock the shutters
raise the drawbidge
Aussies only interested in Aus from now on
happy now?

Its just that as Wayne has also stated, we hear all this crap about american politics, when they havnt even decided who is going to be running for each party yet, so why does it even matter at this stage?

Do you think the US or other countries recieve daily updates on Aus politics?

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Its just that as Wayne has also stated, we hear all this crap about american politics, when they havnt even decided who is going to be running for each party yet, so why does it even matter at this stage?

Do you think the US or other countries recieve daily updates on Aus politics?

lol
Australia?
they think we are somewhere up there near Swizerland m8

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Barack 2008!

My point exactly.

Our politics do not affect thier day to day living, and vice versa

Hence the total apathy

 

[wayneL]

Re: Barack 2008!

ok mate
lock the shutters
raise the drawbidge
Aussies only interested in Aus from now on
happy now?

The old reductive fallacy trick, eh?

A favourite of yours?