Ban Women Soldiers

[Garpal Gumnut]

D Company 6th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment were awarded last year a belated Unit Citation for Gallantry (UCG) for their gallant deeds at Long Tan, Vietnam, 18 August 1966. The Government refused to approve payment for members & families including family of deceased members to travel to Canberra to be awarded the UCG at a venue in Canberra by our esteemed Governor General.

This week the Government of Australia footed the bill to bury illegal boat people who perished on Christmas Island last year, in Sydney flying surviving family illegals to & fro, providing excellent accommodation, etc, etc, plus a bus tour of Sydney thrown in to appease these illegal survivors.

One needs to say no more.

I wasn't aware of this.

I saw a very good video of the Long Tan engagement many years ago. It was a gallant miraculous escape for our men, aided admirably from memory by a Kiwi from Artillery Corps.

What cretins for denying their kin to celebrate their sacrifice.

Where was Smith and Wong?

gg

 

[Glen48]

Will women be called baby killers if the ****e hits the device over there??
or it only some thing men do?

 

[noirua]

wayneL, just a thought: If a women was the leader of the unit you were in and she ordered you, together with other men and women, to attack a position; what would you do?

kennas, last year when I injured my knee and used a walking stick I found a lot of women holding the door open for me. One even gave me a lift on one occasion. On several occasions when I was particularly slow some men lost patience but never a women.
So, on balance the strengths and weaknesses put both men and women equal. There would be an equal number of men and women killed leaving less as widows.

 

[wayneL]

wayneL, just a thought: If a women was the leader of the unit you were in and she ordered you, together with other men and women, to attack a position; what would you do?

I have no problem with female leadership... my wife orders me around all the time. :

As I said Noirua, you should be aware of my views by now.

 

[Pancakes]

If a woman can meet the same physical and mental requirements expected of male soldiers I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be allowed on the front line.

Female soldiers do face some risks that male soldiers probably don't, for example rape. But if a woman is willing to risk that to protect our country I think that is incredibly admirable. I’m sure female soldiers understand the risks and in the end it is their choice to take that on.

If the men of the front line are "distracted" when working with female soldiers or feel as though they owe female soldiers some kind of extra protection then they probably don’t have the mental strength and will power required of a soldier. Soldiers witness awful violence against women and children during war and they need to be tough enough that it doesn’t negatively influence their work.

 

[tothemax6]

Maybe it has been overlooked in this thread, so I'll throw this in too:

One of the issues that immediately occurs following a feminist action like this is changes to intake requirements. It starts as 'women should not be excluded', but ends up as 'the lack of women in the ranks is sexism'. This lack of women is of course caused by average differences between men and women, with both groups passing through the same intake filter, leading to differences in intake numbers. However, the left will not, and does not accept this - and there is evidence of this all over, in racial and gender quotas.

There will be requirement softening.

I always find it sad that there is never any bias towards right or wrong in the minds of men today. People think, say and do, anything. There is no consistency whatsoever. One cannot take for granted that people will simply observe what is or is not correct, and state that. As I like to put it: 'nothing can ever be so wrong as to prevent it being believed to be true'. 2+2=4? No, not always. 'Moon revolves around the earth'. No, I have a differing opinion.

Some people would think that if we simply 'tested' this, by say creating several 'test battles', 100 men vs 50 men 50 women etc, we could put an issue like this to rest. The saddest thing, however, is that it would have zero effect (and history has proven this for many political positions). Even if the 100 men army won 10 times out of 10, there would be infinite reasons as to why this 'wasn't a valid or conclusive test'.

 

[Logique]

..One of the issues that immediately occurs following a feminist action like this is changes to intake requirements. It starts as 'women should not be excluded', but ends up as 'the lack of women in the ranks is sexism'....there is evidence of this all over, in racial and gender quotas.

Indeed. It's called affirmative action. Or, discrimination is good..when it suits. You don't have to look far to see why quotas are counterproductive.

 

[IFocus]

Mike Carlton worth a read

The truth behind sex, lies and Skype

You only ever get two stories written about the Australian Defence Force. It's heroes or villains.

You can't have it both ways, although we try very hard to. Media coverage of the Skype scandal at the Australian Defence Force Academy has been story two stuff. A lot was just plain wrong. Shock horror from 30 years ago was reheated. Lurid exaggerations were whipped up by ''commentators'' who have never heard a shot fired in anger.

Bizarrely, those bellowing most loudly about brutal treatment of women in the ADF were the same blowhards who were savaging Brigadier Lyn McDade, the director of military prosecutions, for her girlie decision last year to charge three commandos for misconduct in Afghanistan. ''This woman,'' as Alan Jones constantly called her. ''No one knows how she became a brigadier.''

Kate, the RAAF cadet, was no doe-eyed innocent. She had already been charged with being AWOL and drinking offences, and she knew sex between students was forbidden.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...behind-sex-lies-and-skype-20110415-1dhpx.html

 

[Calliope]

Wilkie's holier-than-thou image is slipping.

 

[Julia]

Kate, the RAAF cadet, was no doe-eyed innocent. She had already been charged with being AWOL and drinking offences, and she knew sex between students was forbidden.

That is not the point and does not legitimise the filming and distributing of what she believed was a private occasion.

 

[Logique]

Mike Carlton worth a read. The truth behind sex, lies and Skype
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...behind-sex-lies-and-skype-20110415-1dhpx.html

IF, it won't surprise you that Carlton isn't one of my favourite columnists, but this is one of his more balanced pieces. He stuck up for academy commandant, Commodore Bruce Kafer, so good on him for doing that.

A family man with two sons, Kafer is seen in the navy as a good bloke and highly competent, a straight arrow officer. He has commanded international naval task forces in the Persian Gulf and been awarded a medal in the Order of Australia and the Conspicuous Service Cross, which is not handed out lightly. I am told he is also highly regarded at the academy by the cadets and staff. He deserved better than the scapegoating he got.

Also, "..bellowing most loudly about brutal treatment of women in the ADF were the same blowhards who were savaging Brigadier Lyn McDade.." - fair enough to note that irony.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

IF, it won't surprise you that Carlton isn't one of my favourite columnists, but this is one of his more balanced pieces. He stuck up for academy commandant, Commodore Bruce Kafer, so good on him for doing that.



Also, "..bellowing most loudly about brutal treatment of women in the ADF were the same blowhards who were savaging Brigadier Lyn McDade.." - fair enough to note that irony.

Excellent points L.

Having associations with politicians and ADF personnel, both at high levels, the calibre of our defence leaders, I must say, is far above that of our "leaders".

Comparing Bruce Kafer to the likes of Smith, Arbib, Hanson or Pyne, makes one wonder whether the separation of command and policy is all that wise.

Osama bin Laden, does not operate as our DF does.

Although he does agree with Australia having women soldiers.

gg

 

[Sean K]

Wilkie's holier-than-thou image is slipping.

Having gone through Duntroon, not half of what has been reported actually occurs. However, it's for a very good purpose that I thoroughly support. There is a balance, but in total war, what do you want of a military leader? Do we want officers who squeal at every set back? Who collapse under pressure? Who do not follow higher commands intent? Wilkie sounds like he was just your standard 1st class cadet, giving it to the 3rd class as he should have.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

If a woman wants to be a soldier she has every right. She'd have to be as strong and tough as a man. Some women are built that way. If they are weak in mind and body then they don't get chosen, simple.

Why this need to control what women do and don't do? Let them do what they want!! In reality, few women would choose to be a soldier, and those that do choose it, probably have what it takes.