Ban Women Soldiers

[builder2818]

The latest problems at ADFA make it a nobrainer that women should not serve in the ADF, unless in suitable corps, such as Nursing or Transport.

This politically correct claptrap places young women in danger, in the ballsy world of soldiering. More "scandals" will emerge when young men and women are billeted together in a highly charged situation such as cadet training.

I do wish our politicians could see the error of their ways in this regard.

gg

Thats all they do in the ADF - support roles such as nursing and transport and logistics.

I was in the army, it is no special elite club to be a male serving in the defence force. You're just the same as the person your playing cards next to everyday because you have nothing to but sit around pretendng to be defending the country. Regardless of your gender.

 

[Liar's Poker]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...hile-in-the-navy/story-e6frfku0-1226035564804

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ells-of-adf-rape/story-e6freuzr-1226036238200

You beat me to replying to my own post... Just logged on to post the same.

Well found.

 

[Julia]

BTW she was not raped. She consented to sex, just not to being filmed and distributed.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The rape issue was not about this particular girl, but a previous instance where allegedly another young woman cadet was gang raped (admitted to hospital as a result of her injuries), and subsequently told to 'suck it up' by the person to whom she complained.

This came to light when her aunt phoned the media after hearing about the current situation.

 

[Glen48]

There must be some thing in having women in the services after all the woman charging those serving army men in Afghanistan for doing their job is a brigadier and about 20 yeras years old..

Any one who joins the services is Bloody Idiot

Look at the treatment you get when your use by date is up or injured as per the sailors on the Melbourne etc.

My service number was A119106 by the way.

Credo nos in fluctu eodem esse

 

[Calliope]

Any one who joins the services is Bloody Idiot

Look at the treatment you get when your use by date is up or injured as per the sailors on the Melbourne etc.

:topic There were no sailors injured on the Melbourne unless you count the opportunistic claims for post-traumatic stress.

GG, I think there is a role for bull dykes in the services.

 

[tothemax6]

Surely in 2011 men are not so backward to think that women are not capable of being in the ADF.
What about we have higher expectations of men instead of lower expectations of women.

Backwards, yes, to a time when men had morals.
Interestingly, I have very high expectations of women and low expectations of men .

For a young woman to be raped and then told to 'suck it up' is utterly abhorrent.

If this is regarding the recent incident, I must point out that in actual fact - she was (crudely speaking) a 'willing recipient', not a rapee. In which case, her being told to suck it up... ah never mind .

Women are intelligent, able, tactical people, they are good leaders and good followers. Women as a generalisation may not be as physically strong as some men but they are mentally as strong and it ain't always brawn (sp) that wins out.
Isn't peace keeping a big part of the ADF? If so then surely women win that one hands down.

Peacekeeping is a funny concept, since it generally means 'kill them until they are peaceful'.

Millenia of outdated traditions should always be challenged, unless of course you wish to live in complete stagnation *yawn* There are some pretty foul thought patterns going on in this thread, well outdated viewpoints actually and they need to be challenged.

Yes yes, leftist, you are the enlightened, forward-thinking moral compass, and we are all troglodytes.
In reality of course, you probably think any form of regressive change to be 'progress', and our challenges are merely pointing out that your ideas are ----.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The comment below attributed to Minister Smith details the real agenda behind the response to the sexual impropriety of ADFA cadets.

This is an attempt to impose inappropriate cultural mores on our Defence force.

Women in combat roles, what a ridiculous concept. I find it difficult to find words to adequately argue against it, it is such a cotton wool - in gob statement.

Next he will be advocating women in NRL or AFL teams, " as long as they can physically do the job, and should be picked on merit. "

Our enemies will be waiting with baited breath.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/11/3188096.htm

Mr Smith says the inquiry will be the first step in bringing about cultural change at ADFA.

"The time has come for external review," he said.

"We need to drive home that inappropriate conduct in uniform or as a representative of the Defence Force brings with it serious adverse consequences.

"[This includes] the treatment of women, alcohol use and use of social media and representational behaviour more generally."

Mr Smith says there will also be a plan to allow women to participate in all roles in the Defence Force, including combat.

"I have asked the Chief to bring forward the implementation of a matter which I as Minister of Defence and Minister for Defence Personnel Warren Snowdon very strongly agree with in principle: when it comes to women, opportunity should be based on physical and intellectual capacity, not gender," he said.

The 'Skype incident' - which Mr Smith described as "the worst example of betrayal that one could contemplate" - will be the subject of a separate inquiry by Melbourne barrister Andrew Kirkham QC.

There have been several reviews of conduct in the services since the 1960s and an investigation into ADFA in 1998.

Asked why would this investigation be any different, Mr Smith said "we are seeking to drive cultural change" and he likened the conduct problems with those that emerge from football teams.

"Just like the AFL, just like the NRL, the Australian Defence Force will potentially, into the future, confront incidents of poor or adverse behaviour," he said.

"Culturally we need to ensure that members of the Defence Force understand that there will be no tolerance for that and we need to educate and effect cultural change."

gg

 

[Julia]

If this is regarding the recent incident, I must point out that in actual fact - she was (crudely speaking) a 'willing recipient', not a rapee. In which case, her being told to suck it up... ah never mind :

tothemax, how about reading the thread properly before you make the above criticism. I have already clarified this as under:

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The rape issue was not about this particular girl, but a previous instance where allegedly another young woman cadet was gang raped (admitted to hospital as a result of her injuries), and subsequently told to 'suck it up' by the person to whom she complained.

This came to light when her aunt phoned the media after hearing about the current situation.

Do you actually think the abused young woman in this alleged case should have been told, after she was released from having her injuries incurred in the rape treated in hospital, that she should just 'suck it up'?
If so, it says a lot more about you than it does about her. I just can't believe some of the attitudes in this thread.

Yes yes, leftist, you are the enlightened, forward-thinking moral compass, and we are all troglodytes.
In reality of course, you probably think any form of regressive change to be 'progress', and our challenges are merely pointing out that your ideas are ----.

Is this sarcasm really necessary? If you disagree with the point being made, why not just say so in a reasonable fashion and explain why.

 

[Julia]

The comment below attributed to Minister Smith details the real agenda behind the response to the sexual impropriety of ADFA cadets.

This is an attempt to impose inappropriate cultural mores on our Defence force.

What? As always with your remarks, I don't know whether you genuinely hold this belief or whether you are once again just stirring.

If the latter, I'd suggest you find a less important issue with which to have fun.

If the former, then I can't believe you could be serious in what you have said above.

It has nothing to do with women in combat roles.
Why is that issue muddying the waters about the lack of respect for women in the ADF?

 

[Glen48]

I hope this post doesn't lead to war or we could find out if women are needed in combat.

 

[todster]

I think some think women should not be on forums

 

[NewOrder]

I think some think women should not be on forums

PMSL women on forums, who would of thunk it that we would be allowed out of the kitchen.

This sure is an interesting insight into the other side. I have never encountered such horrid thinking, ever. Do you guys who think that women have no rights, treat the women in your lives with such disdain?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

What? As always with your remarks, I don't know whether you genuinely hold this belief or whether you are once again just stirring.

If the latter, I'd suggest you find a less important issue with which to have fun.

If the former, then I can't believe you could be serious in what you have said above.

It has nothing to do with women in combat roles.
Why is that issue muddying the waters about the lack of respect for women in the ADF?

I merely restate that the agenda has moved, from the inappropriate behaviour of a few men to the placing of women in combat roles.

I do not agree with the inappropriate behaviour nor women in combat roles. Minister Smith seems to see a link.

gg

 

[white_crane]

I have to agree with NewOrder on this. And yes, there are some pretty disgusting attitudes on display here.

Consensual sex - fine. Filming and displaying it to the public without permission is not, irrespective of your employer.

And no, there is NO excuse for raping a woman and NO excuse for covering it up. Ever.


GG, you have stated variously:
ban women soldiers
the army and navy is no place for a woman
women should only be in nursing or transport roles
women should not be in combat roles

What exactly is your position?

 

[scanspeak]

Possession of a vagina should not exempt a person from being a soldier provided she can pass the exact same physical and mental tests as her male counterpart.

Lowering standards to get more women in must not be allowed as it will endanger everyone.

Women in the army may have the benefit of making societies less likely to go to war.

 

[todster]

I merely restate that the agenda has moved, from the inappropriate behaviour of a few men to the placing of women in combat roles.

I do not agree with the inappropriate behaviour nor women in combat roles. Minister Smith seems to see a link.

gg

When was the Navy last in combat?
Christmas Island?
Cruising the Gulf finding a Dhow with 2 cartons of Marlboros and a coupla dodgy Rolexs

 

[Logique]

If of the female persuasion, I'd be high-5'ing the other women if the ADF excused me from frontline fighting or SAS.

They train the men to ignore the screams of wounded women, because sometimes you can't crawl out there to no mans land and drag them back. And what about when they're taken prisoner.

By all means focus on the ADF culture. But not as a trojan horse for nonsensical gender posturing.

Clean the place up, yes. But don't white-ant it, which will be the result if you shoehorn inappropriate personnel into frontline roles. If this happens, lots of good male soldiers will bail, you wait and see.

Elizabeth Broderick is a bad appointment.

 

[NewOrder]

Possession of a vagina should not exempt a person from being a soldier provided she can pass the exact same physical and mental tests as her male counterpart.

Lowering standards to get more women in must not be allowed as it will endanger everyone.
Women in the army may have the benefit of making societies less likely to go to war.

That is not the case anyway is it? I am all for equal opportunity but agreed it cannot come about by lowering standards. The reality is that women are not going to be flocking to join in combat roles as they (in general) are not as physically strong as men.

Equal opportunity is a valid agenda regardless of some people's insistance otherwise, but if someone (man or woman) cannot do the job then they don't qualify. Let's not forget though that women still don't have equal opportunity in many career sectors which do not involve physical strength, not surprising really after reading the archaic opinions expressed here.

At least the markets are equal opportunity

 

[Logique]

...Let's not forget though that women still don't have equal opportunity in many career sectors which do not involve physical strength, not surprising really after reading the archaic opinions expressed here..

Go into your nearest bank branch. How many male employees do you see. Or your nearest library, hospital, or government department, especially environment.

Include all the facts. It's not a competition, men and women are different, and vive le difference I say.

 

[wayneL]

Call me old fashioned, sexist, whatever, but no way I want to see women on the front line of combat.

That is not on the basis of capability either, but I still hold doors open for ladies.