tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Now------Dont hold back Kerosam.
Now------Dont hold back Kerosam.
Aussie Beach Louts - time for change
- Thread starter RichKid
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
So my take on this as a Sydneysider.
This has been brewing for years, it has been said relationships is about a whole lot of little things that add up over time to positive or negative outcomes.
Some of the small things that have impacted me are ( by all races but can be more by "new" people because of lack of knowledge of how our system works)
* Someone takes my allocated parking spot cause they feel like it
* The rubbish gets put in the wrong bins repeatedly
* I'm next in line but wrong background so another gets served
* A work contract means thats only the basics, we want a whole lot more from you
And on and on the list goes, I wont bore you, just making a point
So the frustration starts to simmer
My work takes me occasionally to Bankstown area of Sydney. (now Muslim heartland) A young kid decided to pelt me with rocks, the only way I got him to stop was by screaming at the top of my voice that " I'd come and hang him by the ----ing b--ls from a tree if he didn't stop" That worked.
More frustration
Last year the day after the NRL grand final between the Bulldogs (Bankstown area) and the Roosters (Bondi area) I was at Bondi beach and there was car load after carload of bulldogs youth driving around hurling abuse at the perceived losers, looking for trouble, it didn't happen that day but was very intimidating.
The frustration bulds
So where to, violence is not the answer, how to get peolple to respect ea other again and to work towards building a great country, which we are already.
I think John Howards response was pathetic, it's a law and order issue, of course it is but treating the symptoms will have little impact, what are the real causes to be addressed.
I wish I had some answers.
So my take on this as a Sydneysider.
This has been brewing for years, it has been said relationships is about a whole lot of little things that add up over time to positive or negative outcomes.
Some of the small things that have impacted me are ( by all races but can be more by "new" people because of lack of knowledge of how our system works)
* Someone takes my allocated parking spot cause they feel like it
* The rubbish gets put in the wrong bins repeatedly
* I'm next in line but wrong background so another gets served
* A work contract means thats only the basics, we want a whole lot more from you
And on and on the list goes, I wont bore you, just making a point
So the frustration starts to simmer
My work takes me occasionally to Bankstown area of Sydney. (now Muslim heartland) A young kid decided to pelt me with rocks, the only way I got him to stop was by screaming at the top of my voice that " I'd come and hang him by the ----ing b--ls from a tree if he didn't stop" That worked.
More frustration
Last year the day after the NRL grand final between the Bulldogs (Bankstown area) and the Roosters (Bondi area) I was at Bondi beach and there was car load after carload of bulldogs youth driving around hurling abuse at the perceived losers, looking for trouble, it didn't happen that day but was very intimidating.
The frustration bulds
So where to, violence is not the answer, how to get peolple to respect ea other again and to work towards building a great country, which we are already.
I think John Howards response was pathetic, it's a law and order issue, of course it is but treating the symptoms will have little impact, what are the real causes to be addressed.
I wish I had some answers.
RichKid
PlanYourTrade > TradeYourPlan
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Kerosam,
It's a shame you distinguish between people who behave the same on the basis of race. If they are acting like criminals then why point to their ethnicity in one instance and not in the other, why have a strong insult for one lot and a milder one for others? Purely based on racial origin? Appears to be. You probably don't intend it but that's how it has turned out in your post, sometimes we aren't aware of out prejudices.
We can't resolve these issues unless we hold these people to account for the right reasons, this means all the offenders, regardless of their racial origin, from skinheads to those who have just decided to join a gang or mob because of the 'euphoria'.
See this article for a possible positive, the re-introduction of alcohol bans and curfews, it also refers to how people behave in crowds (all people, not just some races): http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abandoned-drink-laws-rushed-back/2005/12/12/1134236005938.html It suggest that alcohol is a contributing factor (as opposed to racial origin). There are plenty of non-enthic gangs who go around terrorising people.
Kerosam,
It's a shame you distinguish between people who behave the same on the basis of race. If they are acting like criminals then why point to their ethnicity in one instance and not in the other, why have a strong insult for one lot and a milder one for others? Purely based on racial origin? Appears to be. You probably don't intend it but that's how it has turned out in your post, sometimes we aren't aware of out prejudices.
We can't resolve these issues unless we hold these people to account for the right reasons, this means all the offenders, regardless of their racial origin, from skinheads to those who have just decided to join a gang or mob because of the 'euphoria'.
See this article for a possible positive, the re-introduction of alcohol bans and curfews, it also refers to how people behave in crowds (all people, not just some races): http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abandoned-drink-laws-rushed-back/2005/12/12/1134236005938.html It suggest that alcohol is a contributing factor (as opposed to racial origin). There are plenty of non-enthic gangs who go around terrorising people.
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
And what a wonderful peaceful society you have there.
websman said:
And what a wonderful peaceful society you have there.
RichKid
PlanYourTrade > TradeYourPlan
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
I agree with you wholeheartedly about those people who are a disgrace to their communities, whether it be Australian or Lebanese or Italian or whatever group it is. They should be dealt with through proper legal and political processes, this is where the local authorities have failed miserably, now it's come to ahead and people are trying to simplify it into an 'Us vs them' or 'Aussies vs Lebanese' type 'gang' scenario. If there are gangs they should be dealt with, no point trying to create race riots everywhere, this is not a crusade. People who are texting people and inciting violence should be prosecuted, we have the technology to track it might as well use it, especially with Nazi groups who are universally abhorred.
If police and local councils had been listening and observing behaviour within the community they would have done something to prevent this years ago, instead we allow people to be abused and kicked around and when they react it becomes one big mess.
Phoenexrising makes an excellent point, when we expect strong leaders to step in John Howard just tries to pander to public opinion saying we're all good, blah blah blah- but the situation on the ground is far different. About time they actually looked at fixing things, the new alcohol laws (if they are passed) will be a great start; perhaps more pro-active policing of hoons in the suburbs too. I also find it disturbing to see young males going around in groups trying to show their 'manhood' be picking on weaker people who have nothing whatsoever to do with this violence. Why are we spending so much money on the cops if they aren't able to cope with it? Maybe they're so pre-occupied with their internal corruption they can't do their job properly.
Some of the posters here have responded with strong, violent solutions but if you know anything about human nature the people who feel opressed will use even more violence and then it gets worse. This is a time for strong leadeship and pro-active thinking, no point in going back to base instincts like 'if they hit us we'll hit em harder' or they should just go away to wherever they came from. These problems aren't that easy to solve.
The governments current anti-terrorist attitude is also misdirecting anger at innocent people associated with Islam or similar minority groups. If this type of violence continues you will see real 'home-grown' terrorists and no matter how good you think you may be with a firearm or a clenched fist you wont be able to deal with it, as the US is finding in Iraq, we don't want to present violence as the solution as that's what terrorists do. Non-violence is a better goal, it is better to make all people feel safe than unsafe; telling them they don't belong is not going to help but applying the laws equally and swiftly to all will. Some will be locked up for years, but I'm sure there are many who can be rehabilitated so let's hope and pray things improve and avoid this boyish chatter about widening the brawling by encouraging irresponsible comments about how it's good to bash up people who 'deserve' it or had it coming.
mime said:
I agree with you wholeheartedly about those people who are a disgrace to their communities, whether it be Australian or Lebanese or Italian or whatever group it is. They should be dealt with through proper legal and political processes, this is where the local authorities have failed miserably, now it's come to ahead and people are trying to simplify it into an 'Us vs them' or 'Aussies vs Lebanese' type 'gang' scenario. If there are gangs they should be dealt with, no point trying to create race riots everywhere, this is not a crusade. People who are texting people and inciting violence should be prosecuted, we have the technology to track it might as well use it, especially with Nazi groups who are universally abhorred.
If police and local councils had been listening and observing behaviour within the community they would have done something to prevent this years ago, instead we allow people to be abused and kicked around and when they react it becomes one big mess.
Phoenexrising makes an excellent point, when we expect strong leaders to step in John Howard just tries to pander to public opinion saying we're all good, blah blah blah- but the situation on the ground is far different. About time they actually looked at fixing things, the new alcohol laws (if they are passed) will be a great start; perhaps more pro-active policing of hoons in the suburbs too. I also find it disturbing to see young males going around in groups trying to show their 'manhood' be picking on weaker people who have nothing whatsoever to do with this violence. Why are we spending so much money on the cops if they aren't able to cope with it? Maybe they're so pre-occupied with their internal corruption they can't do their job properly.
Some of the posters here have responded with strong, violent solutions but if you know anything about human nature the people who feel opressed will use even more violence and then it gets worse. This is a time for strong leadeship and pro-active thinking, no point in going back to base instincts like 'if they hit us we'll hit em harder' or they should just go away to wherever they came from. These problems aren't that easy to solve.
The governments current anti-terrorist attitude is also misdirecting anger at innocent people associated with Islam or similar minority groups. If this type of violence continues you will see real 'home-grown' terrorists and no matter how good you think you may be with a firearm or a clenched fist you wont be able to deal with it, as the US is finding in Iraq, we don't want to present violence as the solution as that's what terrorists do. Non-violence is a better goal, it is better to make all people feel safe than unsafe; telling them they don't belong is not going to help but applying the laws equally and swiftly to all will. Some will be locked up for years, but I'm sure there are many who can be rehabilitated so let's hope and pray things improve and avoid this boyish chatter about widening the brawling by encouraging irresponsible comments about how it's good to bash up people who 'deserve' it or had it coming.
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
how's that saying go?
"Bad things happen when good people do nothing"
Perhaps Samuel Huntington was right (the clash of civilisations)
Good people (and pollies) want to do something about this problem but hold back for fear of being branded a racist/extremest/Hansonist or not politically correct.
This issue needs authority imposed NOW.
And again everyone holds back to see what public opinion will be.
Who controls public opinion??
Yep, you guessed it - the media.
IThese guys are playing a big part in fueling this issue.
I'm suprised no one has asked Pauline for her take yet.
how's that saying go?
"Bad things happen when good people do nothing"
Perhaps Samuel Huntington was right (the clash of civilisations)
Good people (and pollies) want to do something about this problem but hold back for fear of being branded a racist/extremest/Hansonist or not politically correct.
This issue needs authority imposed NOW.
And again everyone holds back to see what public opinion will be.
Who controls public opinion??
Yep, you guessed it - the media.
IThese guys are playing a big part in fueling this issue.
I'm suprised no one has asked Pauline for her take yet.
RichKid
PlanYourTrade > TradeYourPlan
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Yes, very good points, if only we had leaders who weren't opportunists. Some of the media articles have an air of childish excitement, sounds like they're trying to create a frenzy. No wonder journos have such a poor reputation, they just want to sell a nice, juicy story, doesn't matter if they fan the flames. Also can't believe the pollies are waiting til Thursday to meet and I don't think greater police powers alone will help, especially if they just target one or two groups. They need to work with the community, schools and leaders of various backgrounds to solve this big problem.
Some perspectives, note the heartfelt views at the end and the plight of those who have done nothing wrong: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/violence-heats-up-online-forums/2005/12/13/1134236041699.html
sam76 said:how's that saying go?
"Bad things happen when good people do nothing"
Perhaps Samuel Huntington was right (the clash of civilisations)
Good people (and pollies) want to do something about this problem but hold back for fear of being branded a racist/extremest/Hansonist or not politically correct.
This issue needs authority imposed NOW.
And again everyone holds back to see what public opinion will be.
Who controls public opinion??
Yep, you guessed it - the media.
IThese guys are playing a big part in fueling this issue.
I'm suprised no one has asked Pauline for her take yet.
Yes, very good points, if only we had leaders who weren't opportunists. Some of the media articles have an air of childish excitement, sounds like they're trying to create a frenzy. No wonder journos have such a poor reputation, they just want to sell a nice, juicy story, doesn't matter if they fan the flames. Also can't believe the pollies are waiting til Thursday to meet and I don't think greater police powers alone will help, especially if they just target one or two groups. They need to work with the community, schools and leaders of various backgrounds to solve this big problem.
Some perspectives, note the heartfelt views at the end and the plight of those who have done nothing wrong: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/violence-heats-up-online-forums/2005/12/13/1134236041699.html
Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
All of this is pretty bad and honestly I'm ashamed,
But I'm more ashamed of the media....something serious action needs to be taken against the media. no wonder I don't barely watch TV anymore, let alone look at the trashy papers
All of this is pretty bad and honestly I'm ashamed,
But I'm more ashamed of the media....something serious action needs to be taken against the media. no wonder I don't barely watch TV anymore, let alone look at the trashy papers
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html
I say "SPOT ON" Arnold! This execution took place in California one of the most "left wing" states in the union..... In "conservative" Flordia (Webs' state) and Virginia (My State) and Texas (W's state) we just "fry em" left and freakin right.... and with very little media attention.
By-the-way fellas.... I've never had any gang of punk thugs throw rocks or insults at me (not that gangs and punks don't exist here, they indeed DO).
Down here the thugs can simply look at my truck (and the red on my neck) and run a quick profile on me.... They ain't stupid! They know that I'm (most likely) armed.... they don't even stare in my direction as I make them very uncomfortable just being there..... God created all men.... "Sam Colt" made them freakin equal.... or in my case "Para-Ordinance".
Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html
I say "SPOT ON" Arnold! This execution took place in California one of the most "left wing" states in the union..... In "conservative" Flordia (Webs' state) and Virginia (My State) and Texas (W's state) we just "fry em" left and freakin right.... and with very little media attention.
By-the-way fellas.... I've never had any gang of punk thugs throw rocks or insults at me (not that gangs and punks don't exist here, they indeed DO).
Down here the thugs can simply look at my truck (and the red on my neck) and run a quick profile on me.... They ain't stupid! They know that I'm (most likely) armed.... they don't even stare in my direction as I make them very uncomfortable just being there..... God created all men.... "Sam Colt" made them freakin equal.... or in my case "Para-Ordinance".
Julia
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Lyehopper:
Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.
Julia
Lyehopper said:
Lyehopper:
Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.
Julia
Kauri
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
:aus:
Bring back National Service...
:aus:
Bring back National Service...
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Theres a town in the states where nearly everyone carries a gun on their hip. Can you guess what the crime rate is? If you live in Sydney im sure youd be a hell of a lot safer being "closer" to such an environment instead of trying to "talk" to someone while they are bashing you. Why not call the police, im suuuuure theyll come. If everyone carries a gun then no one is game to put a foot out of line. Of course there are always people that are too scared to take responsibility for their own safety.
Julia said:
Theres a town in the states where nearly everyone carries a gun on their hip. Can you guess what the crime rate is? If you live in Sydney im sure youd be a hell of a lot safer being "closer" to such an environment instead of trying to "talk" to someone while they are bashing you. Why not call the police, im suuuuure theyll come. If everyone carries a gun then no one is game to put a foot out of line. Of course there are always people that are too scared to take responsibility for their own safety.
websman
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Well said Lye. Tookie should have died 24 years ago.
Lyehopper said:
Well said Lye. Tookie should have died 24 years ago.
websman
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
I'm glad you're here with me Lye. It's good to know that I have neighbors that aren't afraid to defend themselves. I don't go around threatning anybody, but will use a firearm to defend myself.
Julia said:
I'm glad you're here with me Lye. It's good to know that I have neighbors that aren't afraid to defend themselves. I don't go around threatning anybody, but will use a firearm to defend myself.
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
It'd be interesting to see where gun crimes are the highest. Either where people are too wimpy to use them (yankee) or where people love them (confederate), in general that is. Still looking for that town where most everyone carries a gun; they seem to have it sussed.
Sorry its a bit off topic, but its in the interest of seeing which methods are effective in preventing violent crime.
It'd be interesting to see where gun crimes are the highest. Either where people are too wimpy to use them (yankee) or where people love them (confederate), in general that is. Still looking for that town where most everyone carries a gun; they seem to have it sussed.
Sorry its a bit off topic, but its in the interest of seeing which methods are effective in preventing violent crime.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Could be "Williams." The town
When I was there Everyone looked straight out of Roy Rogers.
Very nice VERY conservative---religious people.
Pickups with Gun Racks in the back window--Nice guns too.
Holsters guns ammo and boots---we felt very out of it.
Felt safe though mainly because guns were in holsters and the back of pickups.
Could be "Williams." The town
When I was there Everyone looked straight out of Roy Rogers.
Very nice VERY conservative---religious people.
Pickups with Gun Racks in the back window--Nice guns too.
Holsters guns ammo and boots---we felt very out of it.
Felt safe though mainly because guns were in holsters and the back of pickups.
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
Thanks tech, I found it though.
The name of the town is Kennesaw, Georgia. It is actually the law (they call it an ordinance) for a member of each household to own a firearm and ammunition. The crime rate is extremely low.
Thanks tech, I found it though.
The name of the town is Kennesaw, Georgia. It is actually the law (they call it an ordinance) for a member of each household to own a firearm and ammunition. The crime rate is extremely low.
Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
its a crying shame if everyone has to carry guns around to feel safe...
i'd rather the guns were left in the hands of the police, and they were backed up by laws and competent politicians...
listening to lemma and howard and beazley on the TV, its no surprise that the it has come down to this... they have done nothing to promote unity, instead have preffered populist politics... and show fake leadership by simply pandering to popular public opinion.
and the media have a lot to answer for too with their sensationalist take on the whole thing...
richkid spoke a lot of sense... focus on the the prepretators of the violence..
1. the lebanese gangs
2. the neo nazi organisers of the event on sunday
lets put some decent laws in place to get the trouble makers of the street in into JAIL! ( i heard there were 12 arrests on the weekend and most were back out the street within an hour, on BAIL!!!... what a joke!!!)
its a crying shame if everyone has to carry guns around to feel safe...
i'd rather the guns were left in the hands of the police, and they were backed up by laws and competent politicians...
listening to lemma and howard and beazley on the TV, its no surprise that the it has come down to this... they have done nothing to promote unity, instead have preffered populist politics... and show fake leadership by simply pandering to popular public opinion.
and the media have a lot to answer for too with their sensationalist take on the whole thing...
richkid spoke a lot of sense... focus on the the prepretators of the violence..
1. the lebanese gangs
2. the neo nazi organisers of the event on sunday
lets put some decent laws in place to get the trouble makers of the street in into JAIL! ( i heard there were 12 arrests on the weekend and most were back out the street within an hour, on BAIL!!!... what a joke!!!)
doctorj
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
I don't think everyone carrying guns is much of a deterrent. Carrying a gun doesn't help you a whole lot when the other chap shoots or draws first. For this reason I don't think carrying guns stops good people from falling victim to the bad ones.
What carrying guns does do is put within reach an easily used, ranged, deadly weapon. Without a gun, someone might pick up a knife/chair/pool cue in a fit of anger, but with a gun, they get a gun. Even if they use a knife/chair/pool cue it is possible to fight off and come out ok, when they draw a gun, they either pull the trigger or not. That'd be OK if we were all Neo, but we're not.
Milk Man said:
I don't think everyone carrying guns is much of a deterrent. Carrying a gun doesn't help you a whole lot when the other chap shoots or draws first. For this reason I don't think carrying guns stops good people from falling victim to the bad ones.
What carrying guns does do is put within reach an easily used, ranged, deadly weapon. Without a gun, someone might pick up a knife/chair/pool cue in a fit of anger, but with a gun, they get a gun. Even if they use a knife/chair/pool cue it is possible to fight off and come out ok, when they draw a gun, they either pull the trigger or not. That'd be OK if we were all Neo, but we're not.
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Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change
I really don't think guns are the answer.
websman said:
I really don't think guns are the answer.
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