Asylum-seekers 'dead, missing' in explosion on way to Christmas Island

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Mr Rudd's tirade against the people smugglers has a hollow ring to it. Our Border Protection people appear to be working hand-in-glove with the smugglers.

The smugglers bring the illegals into Australian waters and then our people take over and bring them to their destination. The smugglers advise their clients to disable their boat before being transferred to our boats to prevent them being turned around. But for some unknown reason we don't do that anyway. We take them where they want to go.

Our Border Protection forces are not protecting our borders they are facilitating illegal entry. The illegals know that once they reach Australian jurisdiction they very rarely get sent back.

Some points have been raised about the facilitation of illegal immigration.

The illegals fly to Indonesia and then take a boat across the water to the land of the leftie idealists who believe it is their charge to save the world. Not to say uncaring is the way, quite the contrary. What about the airlines? Without the illegal immigration racket going on how many afghani's would be visiting Indonesia? Seriously. Not many at all.

Australians are being taken for a big ride.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I am a health professional and have friends who worked in the detention centres, and I have cared for SAS troops who have worked in Afghanistan.

The bleeding heart volvo socialists who would have every citizen from a third country come and live in Australia are a sad indictment of the ignorance and lack of education of so many Australians......and the matter is only compounded in our schools and universities where a Marxist agenda has highjacked common sense and real world information on such issues as illegal migrants.

Some of my views follow.

- for developed world middle class welfare state citizens to believe all people from around the world deserve a lifestyle like ours is naive in the extreme.

- for the same citizens to want 3rd worlders to come and live in Australia is racist and patronizing......because this attitude holds that other nations, races, and cultures don't have the intelligence or determination to create a free market democracy in their own countries....and they all need to come and get some "she'll be right mate" "we're all equal here mate" Aussie happy go lucky air headed friendliness.....when in fact, this attitude reveals nothing more than how socially, financially, and globally ignorant its believers are.

- most Afghans do not have the wealth to afford the trip to Australia. The ones who can afford it are often of dubious character, many having played a significant role in opium production and distribution, and belong to Afghani mafia type organizations.

- several of the illegal migrants that Leftists insist on calling asylum seekers, were carrying 15-20 kg of gold around their waists when initially detained by the RAN. That's an enormous amount of wealth for an Afghani.

- Australian bleeding hearts continue to make illogical presumptions in blindly accepting these people are "asylum seekers".......Afghanis have asylum and refuge as soon as they cross the boarder into Pakistan. If they choose to cross through 5 more countries and attempt an illegal entry into Australia, they are nothing but economic opportunist queue jumpers, presumably with criminal connections in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Many Australians need to put their lattes down, spend less money at the mall, and get over to the third world to see how the real world functions....they might also benefit from socializing with our defence forces.

I agree, very well put indeed.

 

[Bobby]

Did you know Afghan's enjoy the torture of animals for entertainment legally , what sort of humans or society do this ? = Sicko's .

Want proof bleeding hearts ?

 

[Calliope]

Our welcoming committee (aka Border Protection Command) is preparing to intercept another boatload of illegals and escort them to their destination.

Prior to the explosion our people were doing everything to make the previous arrivals feel at home;

Commander Learoyd said that, up until he received the signal, the passengers in the vessel had not shown any signs of agitation.

"Absolutely not," he said. "I was in control of the vessel for approximately 24 hours. And during that time the people in that vessel were calm and appreciative of the support we provided, particularly during the evening when we provided close support. None of the people on board that vessel at the time showed any concern. We fed the people three meals and indeed fed them breakfast and gave them water in the morning.

"And the people on board at that time were all calm and very appreciative of our support."

 

[Julia]

Did you know Afghan's enjoy the torture of animals for entertainment legally , what sort of humans or society do this ? = Sicko's .

Want proof bleeding hearts ?

Please don't post any pictures of animal torture. Or descriptions of it.

 

[pilots]

I am a health professional and have friends who worked in the detention centres, and I have cared for SAS troops who have worked in Afghanistan.

The bleeding heart volvo socialists who would have every citizen from a third country come and live in Australia are a sad indictment of the ignorance and lack of education of so many Australians......and the matter is only compounded in our schools and universities where a Marxist agenda has highjacked common sense and real world information on such issues as illegal migrants.

Some of my views follow.

- for developed world middle class welfare state citizens to believe all people from around the world deserve a lifestyle like ours is naive in the extreme.

- for the same citizens to want 3rd worlders to come and live in Australia is racist and patronizing......because this attitude holds that other nations, races, and cultures don't have the intelligence or determination to create a free market democracy in their own countries....and they all need to come and get some "she'll be right mate" "we're all equal here mate" Aussie happy go lucky air headed friendliness.....when in fact, this attitude reveals nothing more than how socially, financially, and globally ignorant its believers are.

- most Afghans do not have the wealth to afford the trip to Australia. The ones who can afford it are often of dubious character, many having played a significant role in opium production and distribution, and belong to Afghani mafia type organizations.

- several of the illegal migrants that Leftists insist on calling asylum seekers, were carrying 15-20 kg of gold around their waists when initially detained by the RAN. That's an enormous amount of wealth for an Afghani.

- Australian bleeding hearts continue to make illogical presumptions in blindly accepting these people are "asylum seekers".......Afghanis have asylum and refuge as soon as they cross the boarder into Pakistan. If they choose to cross through 5 more countries and attempt an illegal entry into Australia, they are nothing but economic opportunist queue jumpers, presumably with criminal connections in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Many Australians need to put their lattes down, spend less money at the mall, and get over to the third world to see how the real world functions....they might also benefit from socializing with our defence forces.

Helilaet, O how the bleating harts will hate you, you must never tell the truth when talking about this.
Your post has to be one of the best I have read, well done.

 

[Bobby]

Please don't post any pictures of animal torture. Or descriptions of it.

Ok Julia .

 

[Underpants Gnome]

moXJO - I propose that for every person arriving here by boat, we throw one lawyer into the ocean. This solves 2 problems! Seriously though I don't know enough about the entire situation to make any suggestions.

Buster - you make some very good points. I'm not saying you have to back up every single statement, it'd just be nice to see *some* verifiable facts in this thread, and come on, you were making a pretty big statement

We don't blindly accept that all are genuine asylum seekers. Don't we still have a mandatory detention policy?

kitehigh - That's interesting. In what capacity have you been involved?

So_Cynical - It's spelt 'queue' and the concept has been discussed many times in this thread already. Please try to keep up.

helicart - I'm a macchiato man. 'Marxist' - lol. I didn't say everyone deserves the lifestyle we have here, it'd just be nice to, you know, not be beaten for cheering too loud at the soccer, or wear jeans if you felt like it. Nice characterisation of Afghani migrants as wealthy criminals BTW. Not sure where you're getting that from, but please, feel free to continue spreading fear and hatred towards these people. Or maybe you could put down your XXXX and go visit the 3rd world for yourself?

Bobby - I look forward to more of *your* excellent posts! And, I also hear that Afghans eat babies! OMG!!1one

 

[helicart]

helicart - Nice characterisation of Afghani migrants as wealthy criminals BTW. Not sure where you're getting that from, but please, feel free to continue spreading fear and hatred towards these people. Or maybe you could put down your XXXX and go visit the 3rd world for yourself?

UG,

what's your 3rd world experience?

I told you where I am getting my info from. On what grounds do you base your strong opinion on the matter?

Am I spreading fear and hatred? I am not afraid and I don't hate Afghanis per se. Your view is typical of the leisure class whose reality is a hip and manicured or bitumened urbania....a view that doesn't have the subtlety or experience to discriminate between what is a genuine refugee crisis and economic opportunism. It is a view that divides people into either :

- likeminded pollyanna feel good middle class soft bellied lounge lizards who are heavily burdened with guilt, inferiority, and existential angst for not having passed through adequate rites of passage into manhood.

- rednecks.

I suggest you spend less time proving your manhood by shouting the loudest at the soccer and do something for Australia that requires true balls, and join the defence forces or army reserve. You mightn't go through life as afraid and apologetic then.

 

[Julia]

It was confirmed on ABC Radio News this evening that the asylum seekers did spread petrol over their vessel .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/19/2546806.htm

Extract from the above article:

Senior Government sources have confirmed to the ABC that asylum seekers on board a boat that exploded last week had doused the deck with petrol as a threatened act of sabotage.

The Government says it will not comment on what caused Thursday's fatal blast while a police investigation is underway.

But the ABC has been told the asylum seekers doused the boat in petrol to try and force the navy to let them land in Australia and not turn them back to Indonesia

 

[kitehigh]

moXJO - I propose that for every person arriving here by boat, we throw one lawyer into the ocean. This solves 2 problems! Seriously though I don't know enough about the entire situation to make any suggestions.

Great Idea, now we are talking..

We don't blindly accept that all are genuine asylum seekers. Don't we still have a mandatory detention policy?

Yes we do, but its not cheap to maintain and for every illegal that jumps the queue it cost more tax payer money.

kitehigh - That's interesting. In what capacity have you been involved?

Interdiction.

Some good comments by Helicart, he/she obviously knows a lot also on this subject.

 

[Underpants Gnome]

Hey Heli,

Bugger all, to be honest. I've spent some time in central China and Indonesia (mostly Java) where 'some time' is measured in weeks. But I don't think that directly influences my opinion, and I reject the idea that having a personal involvement somehow makes you more 'right' - if anything it makes you more biased and unable to see the situation objectively.

You have a fantastic way with words (I'm not being sarcastic here), it's a pity you use that ability to sling insults based on tired old stereotypes. And that seems to be your entire argument.

But anyway, being as wise and worldy as you claim to be, would you care to explain to me why people with access to such enormous wealth* would go through an ordeal like this, instead of flying comfortably in on a 747?

* I think you may have messed up your calculations when you said 15-20kg of gold; according to http://rudhar.com/e-gold/en/watevalu.stm that would be very difficult to carry

 

[robandcoll]

thought I would drop back in with my two bobs worth again. UG - experience in life can not be replaced. I once lived in a coastal town in South of WA and in 1998 -99 some 100+ Afgan refugees were settled there and intergrated into the local community. At one stage some of them looked like being deported from Australia as their birthplace was questionable wether it was Afghanistan or Pakistan. Pakistan birth would not qualify as a refugee. There was some rallying in the community etc with church groups and people that had a devotion to keeping them in the community. My young bloke even went to school and played sport with the kids and hung out with them. Long story cut short. They gained their right and status to stay as citizens. Within a week most have moved on to the Eastern States.

They had the community support and employment but as soon as it was official they packed up and moved on.

cavaet emptor

 

[Julia]

would you care to explain to me why people with access to such enormous wealth* would go through an ordeal like this, instead of flying comfortably in on a 747?

This actually is a point I've wondered about. Why don't the asylum seekers simply buy an air ticket to Australia ? It wouldn't cost as much as the price they've been paying the smugglers.
Presumably it's because entry via airports is pretty closely scrutinised and they would be smartly turned around without (presumably) passports and visas?

 

[Underpants Gnome]

'evening robandcoll,

If anything, I think that kind of supports what I'm saying. Because of that experience your judgement might be clouded and maybe you're tarring all refugees with the same brush (whether you realise it or not). It's also possible they had plans to move on from the beginning but there would have been no point if there was a chance of being deported soon.

And that's what I took issue with in the first place - people making instant judgement calls based on their own prejudices before any of the facts were even made clear.

All this in a country that supposedly supports the principles of innocent until proven guilty, and a 'fair go' for all.

Julia - they'd probably have trouble with the metal detectors carrying all that gold!

 

[pilots]

This actually is a point I've wondered about. Why don't the asylum seekers simply buy an air ticket to Australia ? It wouldn't cost as much as the price they've been paying the smugglers.
Presumably it's because entry via airports is pretty closely scrutinised and they would be smartly turned around without (presumably) passports and visas?

This is my point, they are NOT ACCEPTABLE, I am retired and to see my tax's been spent on people thats wounds are self inflicted make my blood boil.

 

[kitehigh]

This actually is a point I've wondered about. Why don't the asylum seekers simply buy an air ticket to Australia ? It wouldn't cost as much as the price they've been paying the smugglers.
Presumably it's because entry via airports is pretty closely scrutinised and they would be smartly turned around without (presumably) passports and visas?

Because they have to organize a visa prior to arrival and they wouldn't be allowed to board the plane to Australia without one. Australia has some of the toughest restrictions when it comes to issuing visa's especially if you are applying from a high risk country. (eg Afghanistan,Pakistan and any other 3rd world country)

 

[helicart]

Hey Heli,

Bugger all, to be honest. I've spent some time in central China and Indonesia (mostly Java) where 'some time' is measured in weeks. But I don't think that directly influences my opinion, and I reject the idea that having a personal involvement somehow makes you more 'right' - if anything it makes you more biased and unable to see the situation objectively.

I recall you questioned my sources. I am still watiing for yours.....which you now imply are nothing more than mainstream Australian media....that liberal progressive propaganda machine (especially SBS and ABC) has removed all hope of having an objective balanced treatment of facts regarding free markets and migration. The nation has been duped into a brainwashed dissociative fugue by their mollifying monolines.

You have a fantastic way with words (I'm not being sarcastic here), it's a pity you use that ability to sling insults based on tired old stereotypes. And that seems to be your entire argument.

I give as good as I get and I generally don't initiate slights UG. If you behave and play fair, I am happy to engage you nicely.....but you're quick with the unsubtle and unsubstantiated op-ed putdowns yourself.


But anyway, being as wise and worldy as you claim to be, would you care to explain to me why people with access to such enormous wealth* would go through an ordeal like this, instead of flying comfortably in on a 747?

I could impart a lot of reasons UG, but you've already made it clear you believe illegal migrants are courageous and virtuous innocentes on a sacred pilgrimage of Bollywood epic proportions, to Shangri-la.......the land of milk, honey, and welfare...

So I'll pass, and let you ponder why your rational and noble brethren blew up their boat.

Then you can clarify whether you agree with Kevin Rude that people smugglers are vile low life and what should be done about them.....oh that's right ......rot in hell...............shock horror.....deary me......what are you and Rudey going to do if the smugglepusses are

A Irani google Hadi Ahmadi
B Afghani google Amanullah Rezaie
C Indonesian google Haji Tahir

Deary me....what a tangled propaganda web Kevin the vegetarian weaves when he time and again deceives....but of course Kevin and his ilk (including Therese), having grown up eating lots of sausage rolls and ear wax, in a university union respite centre for marginalized hammer and sicklers, believe their own BS so much they think no one could possibly not agree with them.......


Then I am all ears to hear what is so different about the political and economic landscape of Afghanistan now compared to the last 1000 years. The place has always had power struggles.....there's always been people there that would qualify, in the eyes of teary Aussie sentimentalists still living at home with Mom, for an Aussie passport.

Then I suggest you go away and read up on the various ethnic groups of Afghanistan and explain why we shouldn't grant asylum to all Hazara people......even though most are happy to just step next door into Pakistan (or Iran) where there is already established communities of their ex pat relies doing very well thankyou.

Then read up on the custom of Hazara migrating, even when their lives are not threatened, in order to set up remittance economies in their new homelands.


* I think you may have messed up your calculations when you said 15-20kg of gold; according to http://rudhar.com/e-gold/en/watevalu.stm that would be very difficult to carry

I said 10-15kg UG. and the guys were wearing it in tailored cloth belts around their waists.......their heavy burden was such that it had worn away the skin around their iliac crests, anterior and posterior superior iliac spines, and they had developed ulcerated tropical infections on same.


Anyway, I have a book to get back to writing......and need to prepare for NYSE opening.

 

[disarray]

I said 10-15kg UG. and the guys were wearing it in tailored cloth belts around their waists.......their heavy burden was such that it had worn away the skin around their iliac crests, anterior and posterior superior iliac spines, and they had developed ulcerated tropical infections on same.

sounds like a good piracy opportunity going begging.

 

[helicart]

I said 10-15kg UG. and the guys were wearing it in tailored cloth belts around their waists.......their heavy burden was such that it had worn away the skin around their iliac crests, anterior and posterior superior iliac spines, and they had developed ulcerated tropical infections on same.

sorry, I did say 15-20kg above. Some of the guys also wore figure of 8 shoulder harnesses.